Affording to live in TV
 

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!

Stats that have been posted on here before, the average is $93,000. If I remember this is based on IRS data. (?)

This subject was addressed in a recent post. Bogie's $93,000 income is correct but as Russ Boston mentioned, this salary includes income of some people who are still working.

IMO- The $93,000 seems high (but not off the charts) If money is tight, I'd advise buying something more affordable. All Village people get the same stuff. It doesn't matter if you buy a $135,000 Patio villa or a 1 million dollar cottage. Live within your means.

I'm not sure I was the one who mentioned working but maybe I was pointed to since I will be working while in TV.

To me you can't go by average or even median income.

Go by what your budget will be:

Income -

Mortgage (if any)
taxes
bond (if any)
amenity fee
utilities
sewer, water
cable
savings
car payments
cart payments
monthly fun (golf, etc.)

put that budget together and multiply by 12. Is it enough? OK come joint the fun!

One of the many things I admire about TV is how they have made this lifestyle available to all ends of the financial spectrum. Regardless of which Village you live in, $135/mo gives you equal access to all the amenities including the free golf on the executive courses.

One does not need $93,000/year to live here. I know many who live in this community with very modest incomes.

What you need depends upon what you want. If you buy a smaller house or a villa, depending upon size, housing costs will be less than a larger home with lots of upgrades. Your television bill will be determined by what type of service you want....high def, movie channels, sports packages. Your water bill is dependent upon usage....same for gas and electric. If you want your lawn cut, it could cost from $40/month and up. Many people tend to their own yards.

I find auto insurance as well as house insurance similar to what I paid in CA. There it was earthquakes, here it's storms.

Not sure where you're living now, but I don't find it any more expensive or less expensive than where I lived in CA. Some things are more expensive, other things less expensive. It evens out.

Remember, you will pay a monthly amenity fee....but all pay and it's about the same for everyone.

I thought this was a figure that was thrown around to attract the retailers to the area. I do not think this total reflects the people living on pensions, social security and other retirement income.

93k
 

is that figure per household or per individual

Household income Lady Lake, FL
 

Here is a URL for household income for Lady Lake, FL
http://www.clrsearch.com/RSS/Demogra...usehold_Income
I hope that $93,000 isn't required for TV or snowbirdtobe will fly back home to a much lower cost Massachusetts.

Not sure about the accuracy of this graph. There are only 7200 households listed. I can't find the date on it.

Not to worry snowbird,that figure is not required to live here at all. However, do most of you think that the average income of new residents is more or less than say, five years ago?

93,000 ????
 

We've been living here for 10 years on a heck of a lot less than that,and quite well I might add.

From another thread
 

Quote:

44,629 is the average median household income according to the US Census figures for 2008. That is a far cry from $93,000. There are only about 11 counties in the entire US where the median household income is $93,000 and above. Four of those are in Northern Virginia, two are in Maryland (just across the border from Virginia), three are in New Jersey, one in Colorado and one in New York.

From BK Cunningham.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...+income&page=2

Do a search for the thread "60K'. It will provide additional information of what some people are living on in TV.

One post from "cybrgeezer" claims they know of a couple who are living on 32K per year.

It is an individual choice as to how much one needs to live on. I find it helpful to crunch the numbers. Basic housing cost that are stated on TV website is accurate. There are some variables but one should decide for themselves how much entertainment such as eating out etc one will be able to do.

The "nuts and bolts section" has a three part article by zcaveman on TV that you will find useful.

IMHO - If the 93K were the absolute minmum, there would a lot less people in TV. I know I wouldn't be moving to TV.

The original question was "what is average retirement income" not what is the average income required to live in the Villages.

I have looked at this at about every way possible and have come up with what I believe you need. Decide on your home type you require. Decide if you will have a mortgage. Add the cost of the mortgage, plus $1000 a month. (this includes all utilities, lawn, pest control, cable, bond, taxes, car except for car payment, insurance, etc) This gives you everything except food, cloths, medical and entertainment. Figure what those will cost and that should come real close to your budget requirements. If you have a net (after tax income) of $36000 a year I believe you can live comfortably. If you want a European vacation every year or new Mercedes every 3 years, or some other higher then average expense, add that to the $36000 a year. If you only dine out once a week, only play golf on executive courses, and live frugal, then the $36000 can be lower. Probably an absolute minimum is around $28000 with no mortgage.

I have set myself up so that my total yearly expense without car payment (which will be paid off by the time I retire) is about $24K. I do not plan on taking any expensive vacations around the world as I have been there and done that. I will not be able to live a lush lifestyle when I do retire (unless a few things fall into place) but I will be able to pay my bills and have enough left over to enjoy some nights out, new clothes, etc. I got all that I wanted our of life while I was young. If worse comes to worse and I have to retire earlier than expected due to illness or such, I also have the option to sell my existing home and get one less expensive. Our plan is to stay in TV no matter what the situation.

It is a good question. The 93M is being used to attract business to the new town center and maybe it reflects current people building in the area. Thus not a true measure of retirement income. My guess from reading the blog would be under 1/2 of the households would be less than 50,000. Over 100,000 would be 10%+
I think 12ridehd had a good answer. I don't have my budget (I am not at TV either) but I think I hit 1,400 for similar items but I think the 1,000 is a good livable number. However not sure but he might not be including the cost of the bond.
You might want to set up a pole and ask for retired full time residences to answer. Important considerations to work into the pole is how they pay for health care and if they have assets set asside for major expenses or if their income has to cover.

one question that I have is, are you only counting full-time residents are they counting snowbirds who are still working.

I know for a fact that you can live very comfortably here on a whole lot less than that.

Yoda

I'll bet you paid more in CA state tax than the $135 monthly amenity fee. In NM, I paid about $150 per month in HOA dues and state income tax. I'm saving money on the amenity fee here and most of it goes to support things I actually use.

Somewhere on this site is a poll just as you have suggested.....not of much value.

i think l2ride's figures are very reasonable....gn

My mother lived in the historic area on $15K/Yr. House, car and medical was paid for. She saved about $200/Mo too.

.

SookeyJo
Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lancaster, Ohio
Posts: 23

Affording to live in TV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!

TOTV members:

Maybe I'm missing something but whether the actual answer is 44K or 93K, my impression is that SookeyJo is asking is how do I compare to others in terms of income and will TV be affordable to me?

SookeyJo:
Is that the real question?

I am home and have access to my budget. This is an estimate of a non resident. I estimated on the high side.

Builder My Estimate
Est Annual Monthly
Insurance House auto cart 1,200 1,800 150
Bond DDA 2,000 167
CDD assessment 100-300/m 2,040 2,200 183
Realestate 3-4.5m (8MNJ) 2,880 3,500 292
Utilities -
Trash 216 216 18
Elect 1,008 1,500 125
Telephone 480 1,270 106
Ammenity fee 1,620 1,800 150
Sewer 252 300 25
Water( 3 tier rates) 456 525 67
Cable / Internet 636 1,300 108
gas (or add to elect) 1,008 1,200 75
Total 11,796 17,611 1,468

The first column is the builders estimate so you can see where I increased my estimate. I think there is general agreement, when posters commented on costs, that the builders estimates are reasonable. Real Estate tax assumes you are a full time resident and get the homestead credit.

Sorry the format looked great until I posted. The builders total was 11,796 and my total 17,611 for the year. The first col. is builder, second is my annual and 3rd is my monthly estimate.

RJM1CC,
Thank you for the budget breakdown -- very helpful. On your real estate taxes of $292/month -- is that just for your home in TV? Your phone you estimate $106/month -- is that for both cell and landline service in TV? I'm in suburban Chicago, and my cell phone is $45/month (including 200 text messages/month) and landline is $35/month, total $80/month for phone service. Is landline or cell phone service in TV more expensive than up north?
Laura

RJM1CC

Thanks for the info but a few other things may needed to be added to the budget.

Newspaper
Pest control inside and out.
Lawn service (cutting and trimming the grass) if you do not do your own
Lawn fertilizing again if you do not do your own
Landscaping (weeding, trimming plants and trees)
Power washing (at least twice a year)
A/C maintenance contract (if desired)

Inflation
 

Do not forget to take inflation into your consideration. It may be flat right now, but at some point it will come back.

The RE is just TV and it is, hopefully, on the high side. My impression is that what ever house you settle on the extras might add a lot of dollars and RE tax could then be higher. Prices will go up a little each year and part of that is included. Phone is for both cell and land line using my current pattern of usage. I would hope to cut the expense but I have to keep in mind my responsibility to support the phone companies. Remember I am not a TV resident so these are just my estimates from what I have read and putting in my living patterns. I would think your Chicago prices would work as an estimate. You might look at Google phone (free) for a land line number and go with just a cell phone.

I agree. I was figuring to do most of that myself but you still have a couple of hundred dollars supplies. I broke my budget into sections such Household, Food & Clothing, Transportaion, Health, and fun.
The A/C maintenance brings up another problem. Do you budget a little each month toward major repair expenses or do you have assets that you can use to cover the expense.

Inflation is a big problem, espicaly if you are using annuities that are not inflation adjusted. I think you can expect living costs to double in the years that you are at TV.

Income
 

2BNTV wrote: "One post from "cybrgeezer" claims they know of a couple who are living on 32K per year."

Nope, someone else wrote that, and I asked for details on how they are doing it.

Income
 

To cybrgeezer:

I apoligize if you took offense to my statements. I must have read the thread wrong.

I wasn't trying to offend you.

Regards,

2bntv

My cell phone bill with Verizon for two phones is way over $100 monthly and I have no texting, but instead full data/internet access. My house telephone bill runs additionally.

Also, don't forget, I tried not to be realistic and ignored the real reason I went to TV in the first place....to have fun.........other residents invite us to dinner out,to a move or a show, etc. that's an additional $50 - $70 per outing. Once weekly = $200 - $280. Add this annually !!!

I was going to try not to work........I've given up on that. We were far, far from rich or plush. My husband's nice retirement isn't even enough. And by the way, we "only" have a CYV. And I won a golf cart.

Affordability
 

2B: No offense.

I still wonder how those folks are doing it.

Forsyth.

Your estimate for dining out in TV seems high to me. The three of us can go to Cane Garden for dinner for less than 40 dollars. But...only Sweetie has a couple of cocktails.

Our phone charges are the same in TV as they are in Ohio. And we have Direct TV...one bill. We carry the boxes back and forth and have the services switched.

We don't have house phone because we are snowbirds. Does anyone else just have cell service when they live there full time?

We find it costs us just about the same to live in TV, except the heat air is lower.

Kindest wishes,

Gracie.

We are getting by on a lot less this year. We are not getting stock dividends this and maybe next year, I am retired on a small pension but can't get SS for another year and the wife does not work.
We are fortunate enough to have our house,car and both golf carts paid for.
Dining out has slowed down and we tend to order more specials and hit happy hours....Mccalls,Katie Belles and Urban flats being our top choices.
I play the executive courses and stay as busy as I want.
We have had our condo up north for sale for 2-1/2 years but have been fortunate to have our former Pastor and his wife rent it for the past year. The rent just covered our monthly payments we have on the place.
We just accepted an offer to purchase ...............over 20 percent less then our original asking price.
It will be good to have our other place sold and will take away a lot of stress.
So I would have to say that yes you can live in TV on a small income, but a larger income would be beneficial.
It depends on your lifestyle and how many things you are making payments on.

OBD, that is great about your home. I know that has been a drain on you. We are looking to sell our house also way below market just to move it.

Army Guy

I have tracked all our expenses on our vinyl CYV (as a rental) for 4 years. If I take out the mortgage (which we will be paying off), and the bond (which we just paid off), and the cleaning fees and caretaker expenses, I come up with about $14,500 in home expenses only, not including food, entertainment, medical, transportation (golf cart & auto), clothes, haircuts. It does include landline, internet and cable. Lots of our entertainment/activities will be free in TV.

This does include about $3200 in landscaping and improvements and furniture we did last year. I'm leaving that in the budget as I figure there will still be stuff we might want to do, if we can afford it (for instance upgrade appliances, do granite countertops, redecorating, and I'm always buying plants and garden stuff). If not, I figure this will cover inflation for a few years anyway.

We've already done gutters (not everyone has/wants these), attic stairs, cabinets in the laundry room, custom closets, tinting some windows, some extra landscaping in the front and back. I sew and made custom window treatments for some windows. For now, I do the interior painting. We're going to try doing our own mowing (with a push mower) and fertilizing of shrubs and grass, at least for a while, to save there.

We've had it occupied about 8-9 mos of the year, including our visits.

I don't think utilities will go up that much, except for inflation, as I don't think tenants bother to regulate the heat and a/c as much as I will. Probably we'll spend a little more on the water bill.

I think the real key is to not have ANY debt, and some savings available. We are going to try and live on pension money our first couple of years, adding social security in 2 years when we turn 62, and to leave all the IRA stuff alone until we see what it actually costs us to live. This is more for my peace of mind, as I'm a real financial worrywart.

Originally we were going to work until age 62, but my company closed it's office end of 2009 and we did the numbers and figured what the heck, you don't live forever. Just check out how many classmates and friends you know who didn't even make it to age 60.

We have a couple of big trips this winter planned and partly paid for already, will pay the rest from our cushion as we go. We will do small trips, mostly to visit friends, next summer. We will do more big trips, assuming health stays good, only if we can afford it. Our largest pension has a COLA, which will help a little with inflation.

Don't forget that your auto costs, if you downsize to 1 car and barely use it, except for traveling, will go down significantly.

So, my point is that I think it's quite possible to live on a fairly small income if you have no debt. Will find out shortly if my projections are adequate. We can do a lot better if we start withdrawing from our IRAs. My financial advisor, and all the retirement projection forecasts I've done, says we would be fine withdrawing about 4%/yr, but I can't bring myself to start that until I have a more concrete history on expenses after we move down.

Only thing that really scares me is medical costs, which now are very low, but who knows about the future - another reason, as far as I'm concerned, to retire early, while we still have our health.

It sounds as if TV is just as affordable as anywhere else
 

While I don't live there,(yet) it sounds as if normal living costs are the same, and that $36,000 a year would be sufficient. Of course, a lot has to do with what you want to spend you money on. If you want to eat out every meal, or take a lot of trips, it would cost more, but just as before you were retired, you can pick and choose.

It also seems that there is so much to do in TV that is free due to your amenities payment, that you could conceivably live the "Life of Reilly" with very little money outside of normal expenses.

Ohiogirl, I agree with your post. You are right on the money with your assumptions.

Army Guy

We moved here in October of 2008, during the elections. We decided to wait on acquiring a home phone, because we thought we would be inundated with calls from politicians.

Meanwhile, we're still waiting. We're full-timers and have only our cell phones, and it works out just fine -- as long as I can find my phone and I remember to charge it. :loco:

We have the friends and family plan, so everybody 'back home' can call us whenever they like. It's only Villagers who need to call us long distance, but most of them have cell phones, too, so there really isn't any long distance calling. I find that we do more emailing and IMing instead of actual talking with the folks back home, but with the time difference it's really more convenient for everybody this way. :024:

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Would somebody please call me so I can find my phone?