Historical Perspective on our American wars
 

Interesting perspective.

Total US deaths during WW1 = 116,516
Total US deaths during WW2 = 405,399
Total US deaths for both wars = 521,915

US total costs of WW2 alone in 2019 dollars = $4.1 trillion.

Did we win the war and recover from that enormous national debt? You betcha.
How? We made the necessary sacrifices and came together with unity as a nation.

We're at war with COVID-19
The total US deaths from COVID-19 = 523,000 to date. That already exceeds WW2.
Will we win the war? Will our national debt be unsurmountable?
Only if we don't make the necessary sacrifices, and come together with unity as a nation.

Apples and oranges. Sophistry. Soft.


Stir the pot first quote.

The civil war in the US had over 600,00 deaths.

The Covid deaths are inflated. (I have a relative counted inaccurately) and that can't be the only one. I recall some issues with counting votes in certain states inaccurately. The Media lies 99.9% of the time so how does anyone know true numbers. How many people die from Cancer and Heart Disease or regular flu. How about people that die from OLD AGE. Why did you not mention them?

The National Debt will never be payed down. The government always spends more than it receives "always" just look at any spending curves. That is why interest rate is ZERO. Interest would make the National Debt increase to amounts where we would need outer space numbers to describe.

Just watch what gets spent this year compared to what is taken in.

Just wait for the war on fossil fuels. You have not seen anything yet.

Good news is we are retired and live in The Villages in the state of Florida. Otherwise, kumbaya (oops).

IMO The comparison skew IMO all the world wars majority didn’t have choice and we’re young. So most likely 99.% wouldn’t died if they didn’t have to go to war.

Not that I’m down playing Covid, but the fact is IMO lots would of died anyway of other illnesses COVID was the last straw. That don’t make it better, just you can not compare the two. Both were awful and IMO unnecessary.

A different perspective, worldwide so far, Covid has claimed about 2.6 million people. WW1 and WW2 claimed between 110 - 125 million people worldwide. Then consider during WW2 the entire world population was approx. 2.6 billion while the population today is approx. 7.9 billion. Covid deaths will likely be a pimple compared to the devastation and deaths of World Wars.

I don't understand the comments about sacrifice and unity of our nation. Covid is a worldwide problem and I can't believe, or don't want to believe, that somehow the USA will be less capable of recovering than any other country.

Break out your wallet. Times are a lot different.
No personal resolve.

Strange......in 2008, our debt soared with the depression and actions taken to get out of that.......in 2016, for whatever reason...tax cuts...we entered unchartered territory for debt.

Difference to me is, suddenly in the last few years, we decided that debt was good. Any sane conversations on this forum, where debt was raised as an issue, was dismissed.

We find ourselves in territory now that we must give help to fellow Americans and business’s and while we thought we had reached the ultimate in plateaus’s we will exceed even that.

In my opinion, we have spent the last years putting our economy in perilious waters.

To top it off, those with money get richer, and the income disparity is at all time highs.

All predicted but the journey out is fraught with serious hurdles, and will require cooperation within our society, which we Americans are not prepared to give.

1918 Pandemic (H1N1 virus) | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC.

The 1918 pandemic is a better example. WWI or other violent worldwide overthrows of governments not so much.

The Face of Battle - Wikipedia

Read some of John Keegan's excellent books on what combat is like for soldiers, sailors and the like. John Keegan - Wikipedia

Some of our front line workers fighting against the Corona Virus have it quite bad as well but that is quite different when they were burning down towns and bombing cities in WWII. And partially in WWI.

It's excess deaths that should be looked at - take the average death rate and look at the number of extra deaths that occurred - many attributed to Covid already had severe pre-existing conditions , Covid just finished them off maybe a few months earlier ...they would have gone anyway.
How many absolutely healthy with no pre-existing have died from Covid ?? No reports on that number !!

:bigbow:

Good numbers ... how about you incorporate the fact that over 80% of the Covid deaths were people over 65? WWII killed off our men at the start of their productive lives. No comparison. Sorry.

Not that this has anything to do with wars but since we're talking money....

There are about 330,000,000 people in the US (330 million)

Population Clock

And....although I'm not entirely sure if I'm reading this right...it looks like the US has spent 1.9 trillion so far

USAspending.gov

Now....when you take 1.9 trillion dollars and you divide by 330 million people...what do you figure you get? Maybe....a thousand per person or two thousand or something, right?

Nope, it's almost $6,000 per person!

But hey, maybe I read the chart wrong...over here it says we've spent 4 trillion (as of last spring)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...lout-spending/

so now we go 4 trillion dollars divided into 330 million people and we get a whopping $12,000 per person

But wait, there's more! There are 330 million people in the US but they all didn't get checks from the government....I certainly haven't gotten a penny. Now...I tried to figure out how many "rich people" we have in the US who make over $75K/year but I just couldn't figure it out, sorry.

But we've spent something over $12,000 per head in the US with another massive spending bill on the way. It's not wars that will end the US, it's our own government.

Debt: Non-Political. Japan has adopted deficit spending to the point where D/GDP is somewhere around 250% ... and their society has not come to a halt. Are you absolutely certain that the future is one where debt is the issue? Our national debt tripled between 1980 - 1988 ($900b to $2.72t), doubled from 2000-2008 ($5.7tyo 10.7t) and again 2008-2016 (to 19.6t) ... never mind 2016 to 2020 ... we stand at around $28t and $30 trillion by the end of this year. GDP = $22t (-ish). No where close to Japan. Are we re-writing the book with interest rates so low?

30 trillion debt with an "income" of...say...4 trillion per year.

How Much Money the Government Collects in Taxes - Overview,

You get on the wrong side of a debt that large and....well....we'll see I guess! I hope you're right!!

US deaths for WW II a little over 400,000. World wide deaths from WW II, estimated to be around 80 million. Not a good comparison.

A few facts about COVID deaths - as reported by the CDC
 

As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change
from the previous year.

Year 2017: 2,818,503 Americans died

Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)

Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)

The year of the pandemic ...

Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019
and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible now for 400,000 + deaths.
Shouldn't the 2020 number be alot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died of COVID and How many really only
died (of other causes) WITH COVID?

The entire issue is covered by two old expressions. The second on is my favorite.
Figures don't lie but, liars can figure.
Figures don't lie but, if you choke them hard enough you can make them say whatever you want.

Reality-I regularly post the same thought. We toss about the term 30 Trillion. How many stop to realize we do not really comprehend one Trillion let alone 30 of them.

A million here million there. A billion here a billion there. A trillion here a trillion there.
My comprehension ends at the billion.

You must have missed the CDC report that states “94% of the deaths attributed to COVID 19 actually died with testing positive to COVID NOT from COVID”. You probably overlooked the WHO report on innoguration day that stated the current testing protocols were massively over reporting positive tests.

Just sayin...

Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

The total deaths in WWII included many civilians due to starvation, lack of drinking water, genocide, diseases, the elements (weather), bombings, fires, etc.

The number for 2020 IS a lot higher. It is actually 3,401,600 or a jump of 546,600 from the 2019 count. My information came from the CDC. I'll ask again, where did your data come from? (maybe the fourth time is the charm)

546,600 more deaths in 2020 than in previous years. You can try to differentiate "FROM" covid and "WITH" covid but you still have 546,600 additional deaths because of covid.

See my other response concerning WITH covid and FROM covid and the 546,600 additional deaths because of covid.

Please post a link to this WHO report. I suspect is is the one that is being misquoted.

But let's say you are right and the number of positive tests are being massively over-reported. What is "massively," a factor of 10? There were at least 520,000 additional graves dug since the start of the pandemic. If the positive results were "massively" over-reported by a factor of 10 then the true number of infections is in the neighborhood of 2,896,000 which gives a fatality rate of 17.9% or a survival rate of only 82%

So which is it:

1. The positivity rate has not been over-reported (your assertion is wrong)
2. There were not really over 520,000 additional graves dug last year (the CDC can't count dead bodies)
3. The survival rate is really only 82% (covid is a 10 times more deadly)

Sepsis a Significant Factor in COVID-19 Deaths | Texas and Louisiana Medical Malpractice Firm

Sepsis is a major killer of hospital patients and has been for as long as there have been hospitals.

COVID19 — Global Sepsis Alliance

Sepsis: The Common Cause of Death You've Never Heard Of - AgingCare.com

Thanks for setting the record straight. I believe YOU!

Great interesting thread starter about a historic and current subject. Way to weave them together. One out of every three people in the US know someone that has died of CV. The new and more deadly British variant has been found in 19% of all NEW US cases. And the graph of the increase is very steep upward.

You think the British variant is bad, wait till the South African, and Brazilian variants arrive!

The 1st paragraph was VERY intuitive. By comparing the greater population today, you have a larger denominator to show that the % problem of CV today is less of a factor than the world wars. Good job!

I somewhat disagree with the 2nd paragraph because since the US is # 1 in the CV Pandemic - it is logical that we will recover very slowly. (incidentally) Remember Bob Woodward's advice? As a matter of fact, China has pulled ahead of the US as the world's economic leader - right now. They have already recovered.

When you tally the death toll from the 1918 flu don't forget that sickness the trenches was a big issue and no doubt classified by both sides.

War?
 

Why is it always a war? Why do we Americans always have to wage War?

We go to wars, we start wars, we sometimes finish wars, we always seem to have to wage war.

We’ve had a War on Drugs, a War on Crime, a War against Poverty, a War on Racial Injustice, a War against Communism, a 20+ year War on Terrorism, and now a War against COVID? And, we have thousands of monuments to War.

Sheesh, I’d just like to see our one monument to Peace. Does anyone know where that is?

Your post is confusing. You speak of Americans waging war, but look for a "peace" monument. There would be NO peace monuments if we did not have war or hatred in our world or country.

One of my personal favorites in Washington was where I took many a walk at lunch..

Peace Monument - This statue stands as a memorial to the Union naval deaths at sea during the Civil War. | DC Historic Sites

But many others throughout the world, with the aim of reminding us of what the meaning of peace really is.

If you want a peace memorial that is not inspired by the hate and agony of war, look to your heart.

Assuming one believes the COVID-19 number. Every reporting entity has backtracked their numbers. Some multiple times. Also consider that apparently, flu death are non-existent.

Great post. The Covid deaths reported by the CDC are ridiculous. When the reported deaths were @ 230,000, the CDC reported that the real number of deaths strictly from Covid (not counting contributing conditions like cancer, heart disease, stroke, obesity, respiratory issues, rmetc.) were only 7000! So much for a half million deaths!

Ridiculous comparison. Covid is an overblown, media-hyped tempest in a teapot. Unproven statistics, "experts" with opposing views, fear-driven behaviors, little proven science, a genetic-engineered vaccine rushed into production, an actual COVID survival rate of 99.9+%, and an utter abandonment of critical thinking & investigation. I stand by my previous posts 100%.

“Today a story is not told, it's sold.”
― Amit Abraham

David H. Dallas
Village of Bradford

You are claiming the states and the CDC cannot count dead bodies accurately and there were not 500,000+ more deaths in 2020 than in 2021?

You believe that there is some conspiracy that has been able to fool every country in the world?

And where in the world do you get the numbers that show a 99.9% survival rate? (I've asked this or a similar question four times now...still waiting for any answer)