Impact fees sumter co.
 

I've been here 19 yrs and won't be affected by what's happening in Sumter Co over the impact fees because I live in Marion Co.

My question is what changed??? I may be wrong but I thought in the past the builder paid the impact fees for the infrastructure of a new village and then that was added to the cost of the house in our bond?? If so why did it change?

What changed:
The massive amount of new home construction south of 44 required that many new roads be built and/or upgraded. The impact fees fell far short of what was needed to pay for the roads. So a 25% property tax (millage rate) increase was passed two years ago specifically to pay for the roads.
Current property owners are vigorously objecting to paying additional property taxes to fund the Developers expansion. People feel that the impact fees should be increased instead.

I would think a reasonable compromise would solve this.

If you want to read a totally one sided discussion of this read todays Village Sun written by an employee of the developer.

Or, alternately, after 15 years of budget mis-management via aggressively reducing the local property tax rates (and then bragging about it), they now want to push the needed catch-up investment in county infrastructure onto the unsuspecting new home buyers, who btw, are already paying for their local infrastructure via cdd bonds.

Wrong.
25% went to roads and many other expenses.

It is comical when the paper trots out the supposed young couple who wants to move to Sumter county and if the impact fee raises the cost of their house by $ 3-4000 they will be priced out of the market.

How is that comical? That is real money to some people. If that is comical then it is even more comical that a false narrative is being pushed by the other side that everyone saw a 25% increase in taxes and that they were only for the construction of roads. Neither of which is true and raising the rate on the developer will have negative consequences and probably not result in a lowering of taxes. Growth causes a need for an increase in services which results in tax increases.

Read any of the articles in the developers paper pushing a very one sided view of this.

Responsible journalism is not what the paper is about.

I have said this before and will say it again, there is plenty of room to compromise on this.

If $4,000 will make a difference in being able to afford a home then you already cannot afford it. Living paycheck to paycheck BY CHOICE is foolish. Taking out a loan that leaves you no money for savings at the end of the month is foolish. Purchasing a house that requires a loan that leaves you no money for savings at the end of the month is foolish.

Who did NOT see a 25% increase in the millage rate for Sumter County taxes? Who claimed the 25% increase was only for roads?

Growth causes an increase in the tax base which leads to increased revenue and pays for increased services. Discounted impact fees result in a deficit for every building erected - more growth = more building = more deficit.

Unless there is an argument that the 2019 impact fee study is faulty then let's stop arguing about increasing the impact fee and start talking about whether the County can continue to support a 60% discount of the impact fee. When Publix ends a by-one-get-one sale it is not accurate to say they raised prices when they really only stopped a discount. The County isn't proposing to raise the impact fee above what the 2019 study found was fair, they are proposing to reduce the discount that has been in place for some time now.

Reducing the discount to zero will probably not work. Keeping the discount at 60% is not working today. Raising ridiculous arguments and spewing false information is making it impossible to have the conversations necessary to come to a mutually undesirable but workable solution.

Thank you for saying it better than I did.

I would encourage everyone to study both sides of the arguments and go to the board meeting later this month. The road impact fees are about 80 items for various residential and commercial development. The developer is only one line item. So if you increase the fees by 150% as allowed by state law all of those 80 items are raised by 150%. For example, the UF hospital and research facility will go from a $1 million dollar fee to over $3 million. Don Wiley, aka goldwingnut, has a great YouTube video that shows how much various buildings impact fees cost now and what they will cost in the future if the proposed raise in fees is passed.

So maybe you say, I don’t really care, I have all the stores, doctors, and restaurants I need. The problem is the thousands and thousands of people south of 44 who do not have all the commercial development to support them. Guess where we are headed? That’s right, to all the commercial development north of 44. So don’t complain if we crowd the restaurants, shopping, or doctors offices. Golf courses are also on the list of 80 items, so maybe the developer just puts in more houses and not golf courses, I will see you at a championship course near you.

With the increase in the road impact fee the developer will keep building. The question is will there be commercial development south of 44. Two things could happen. First, commercial development stops or slows dramatically. This will cause pain to everyone, south and north of 44 as the homes continue to crack out. Second, commercial development could move to Lake county to support the population. Depending on the costs to build that may be where we are headed. The problem will be Sumter will not only miss out on the road impact fees from the development but will also miss out on the ongoing property taxes from that commercial development in Lake county. Which would lead to guess who paying more taxes, that’s right the good old homeowners.

Welcome to your new world.

And do you not think there is room to compromise on both sides?

There was a compromise that was instantly turned down was there not ?

When our house was built our impact fee was $2582.08, the new impact fee now is a little $2600.00. The developer fee starting around sometime around 2015 or 2016 is $901.00. So he is saving about $1681.00 on every house he builds. Multiply that time about 60000 and see what number comes up. You might be surprised at the additional funds he is making on the homes. He is the only one getting the reduced rate.

Must be new to the topic and Sumter County.
If TV paid the full scheduled fee, it would have been passed onto the buyer.
60,000 home since 2015/2016..............Not.
TV is NOT the only on getting the reduced rate.

Fuzzy Math
 

I am certainly not a math professor, but I am reasonably certain $1 million increased by 150% is not $3 million. This sensationalism cause me to question the validity of the remaining assertions in this post.

Not much of an offer by the developer. BTW why are you so sure that all of the negotiating is being done publicly?

People who do not benefit are required to subsidized other people. So basically - forced charity. And continuously. This is not going to go away.

The numbers are not exact, it was around $1.5 million and over $3 million. The point is it is NOT just homes, it is all kinds of businesses. Again, go to Don Wiley’s YouTube channel. He has done the work to show how much various types of businesses will be charged under a 150% increase. I also hope for a compromise that doesn’t hit all new commercial building. But the commissioners have shown no willingness to compromise. Remember, the Villages is doubling the number of homes with all the new homes south of 44. If you don’t think those people will head north of 44 for all their needs you are dreaming.

"Perceived" is a good word to use. There are very few who will perceive their taxation as being fair. As a childless couple, we could perceive that it is an injustice for us to pay any school taxes - we don't directly benefit from those taxes at all. The argument is the schools benefit society and us as part of that society. I don't agree that I get *that* much benefit from the money I paid but it's a reasonable argument.

The cost of infrastructure is astronomical and it is unlikely that any business would be able to pay that cost. However, we want Costcos and Burger Kings and car washes and hospitals in our area. Someone has to pay for the infrastructure but if Burger King added a whopper of a price increase on their Whopper in order to pay then they would go out of business. If the businesses can't afford to pay then it has to be we who benefit from those businesses.

While part of the 25% increase might cover the impact fee discount, as other have pointed out, not all of it does. Reducing the discount might shave a few percent but certainly not all.

There should be room for compromise.

Exactly.....................

Increase the impact fee by $2,000 (not to $2k), you get 2% of the 25% back.

Sorry Bill, I changed my post. On rereading I see that you did not miss my point. I am not arguing with the percentage as I don’t have the exact figures in front of me. It is the whole idea of asking some people to pay for the benefit of those who haven’t even come to the Villages yet, that is so glaring.

The fee for new businesses is a relatively small one time fee. The 25% property tax increase is in perpetuity for the county residents, and becomes the new tax base that future increases compound upon. What is continuously ignored is the stress that the 25% tax increase put on many existing residents, taking away from their disposable income that could otherwise be spent supporting the business going forward. There are clearly two sides to the story, and a reasonable compromise needs to be reached somewhere in the middle.

Well said. Interesting how some people are dead set against the developer paying more or thinking that the developers offer is such a great one.

Does not seem that the developer offer was much of one.

Loss of disposable income???............probably less than 1%. Not a big impact.

Everybody benefits financially from the vibrant economy in this area to support development.

when will it end? today i received a notice about fire protection , they want to increase the maxim of $125 to $360. its ok to jump it over 100% on me , but the inpact fee keep it at 3%, just stick it to me some more. and who pays for the new fire station and fire trucks........ i know........ us

Did you look at the Don Wiley video? Of course not, can’t be bothered by facts. These will not be small fees. They will be large fees on all businesses. From the gas station to the grocery store and beyond. These fees will impact growth and revenues for the county. The 3 commissioners you guys elected are winging it and not listening to any of their advisors who say this will hurt the county. I know, you just want to screw the developer. They have billions and will not be hurt by this. In the long run if this is passed it will impact revenues for the county and then you will be asked to pay more in property taxes to make up for the deficit. You are digging your own grave, do you want an extra shovel?

How about a link to the video. I just looked through more than 400 titles trying to find one related to impact fees. A link would be very useful.

Don Wiley (goldwingnut) video
 

Hope this works.

The Villages Construction Update 2-9-21 - YouTube

If not go to YouTube.com. Look up goldwingnut productions. It is the 2-9-21 construction update.

Thank you, the link worked. I would not have clicked that title for impact fee information.

I was a little surprised by the phrasing used for that information but the disclaimer explained it well.

To follow the logic here, if $4000 is comical for a young couple buying a first home then the couple of hundred dollars retired villagers are complaining about is really comical. Did they not budget in price increases for their golden years. Can not argue that the paper is less than one sided but that and the social media are not where people should get their facts. There are open meetings that probably would be a better place to get information.

Totally agree that things need to change on both sides of the equation but to say it will not have an effect on business I believe is short sighted. A growth in population does not mean that budget and taxes from 15 years ago are still valid in the current environment. Concrete cost is nowhere near what it was when the last tax increase occurred, salaries are higher, do not even start to talk about benefits for employees and you could go on and on.

It seems that there has been a failure or lack of ability to budget and prepare for the future. This needs to be a resolved with all the parties involved with logical proven facts not innuendos and hysteria.

Your bond does not pay for the roads. It covers rec centers, pools, golf courses and other amenities. The impact fee is what is supposed to cover the cost of the roads. If all the new roads weren't needed the tax would not of needed to be increased by 25%. The only reason the roads are needed are so that the developer can continue to build. We as the tax payer should not have to subsidize the builder.

Impact fee issue and daily sun front page
 

Bottom Line Upfront: I support increasing the Impact fee paid by the developer. I do not understand all the “ins and outs” of impact fees and there is no clear comparison that I have found that compares “apples to apples” in this area. I do understand that:
1. If the developer does not pay the full cost ofi mpact; taxpayers must pay it. The only question is how much is shifted from developer to taxpayer.
2. The developer may physically pay the impact fee but that fee is amortized over time in the building rent and ultimately the users will pay that fee; not the developer.
3. While the Commissioners may not wish to burden the developer for the full impact cost, they certainly can increase it to be at or slightly above surrounding areas which should not erode any growth.
4. Any increase in a house price as a result of the impact fee would only be the difference between what is not paid and what the new rate is and that increase would be again amortized over a 30- or 15-year loan; not even noticeable to a majority of the buyers.

I was annoyed that the Daily Sun chose to put what looked like its editorial page on the front page of the paper as I did not find the answers to present both sides of the issue. My take on each question and answer is as follows:
1. Villages should pay their fair share. Paper reported the developer paid a lot of moneyt o the country…yes that is true because they built a lot of places. If they had a higher impact fee, the country would have gotten even more and taxpayers saddled with a bit less.
2. Independent report did not provide a recommendation. That was true however, it would be difficult for me to read and understand all the tables. What I got from the report was the fully burdened cost of the impact was $6,444 dollars and the developer is paying less than that. Other counties do their impact fees differently by having multiple districts, one flat fee etc. which makes comparison difficult. Daily Sun in their multi page county comparison did not help with an accurate comparison.
3. Developer reaps all benefits and pays nothing for other services. A self-serving question with its own self-serving answer. Developer pays impact fees that are direct fees allocated only to the project (which they recoup in rental fees over time from the business) and property taxes which they also recoup either in rental fees or tax incentives.
4. Higher fees will wipe out 25% tax increase. Question and answer mixes impact fee and county taxes to confuse the issue. There is no evidence that the current board will cut services and growth may actually pay for increased services.
5. New roads won’t benefit anyone who already lives here. Maybe, maybe not. If the developer does not pay full loaded cost of impact fees, taxpayer will no matter if they use the roads or not. The county taxpayer will certainly pay for the upkeep over the next 25 years and the replacement after that.
6. Increase if levied just on big business who can afford it. Article is correct that the impact fee will affect all taxpayers when levied, the only question is how much.
7. Adding 1,458 to the existing rate will not deter retiree from buying here. I agree with the statement and not the answer provided. $1,458 added to a home cost anywhere in the county spread over a 15- or 30-year mortgage will not add significantly to the cost and is probably less than the cost to upgrade from builder grade carpet to something nicer.
8. Increase has no effect of current property values. Paper answers with the standard developer’s soundbites which can neither be proven or disproven. Again, would a $1,458increase drive someone away from this county with all those buyers to another with no buyers; I think not.
9. Small businesses will be fine. Paper argues that pandemic has closed businesses and now is not the time to raise fees. This is an impact fee on new construction not old construction where the fee has already been paid. In any case, businesses borrow money at 1%and again amortize the cost over time as well as receive many tax benefits. Should not be an issue
10. Bill moving through Tallahassee is work of the Developer. Sure, seems like it. Why isTallahassee even concerned over what Sumter County does and IF it was such a concern why not have a bill that eliminates all impact fees state wide…that would really benefit all developers and negatively hurt taxpayers.
11. Daily Sun can’t be trusted. I would only say that the Daily Sun’s reporting tends to be biased in many ways in how a story is presented or even what stories are presented. Article would have been more believable if it had provided some “pros” to impact fees as when they were enacted a lot of forks thought it was a good idea and many counties still do.
Bottom Line: I support increasing the Impact fee paid bythe developer.

I do believe the impact fee should be raised to the developer and all others who build here.

How much is a good question and let the two sides come to a fair agreement.

The Daily Sun article today is a disgrace to good journalism especially the last paragraph of their story.

I would have a better opinion of the paper if they put above the story we are owned by the developer and this is what he wants to tell the people who live here. Of course that will never happen.

There's no "agreement".
The County sets the fee schedule.

The bond pays for all the infrastructure WITHIN each new village. It pays for the streets, roads, utilities, amenities, water and sewer lines, etc. WITHIN each new village. The bond does NOT pay for improvements to existing county network roads nor for new county network roads and was never meant to pay for them. New buyers to each new village, pay for all of the infrastructure for their village through their bond. The impact fee cannot be used for maintenance costs of existing roads but can be used for improvements to existing county network roads and to needed new county network roads. While I may never drive on a road or street within any village south of 44, I will and do drive on county network roads south of 44 when I go to Orlando or Fort Lauderdale or Lakeland. The network roads benefit not only those going to and from the newer villages south of 44, but they also benefit all county residents and visitors that travel from the south to the north in Sumter County as well as those of us living north of 44 that travel from north to south through Sumter County to cities to the south. So I don't view my taxes as subsidizing the builder, but helping the county provide safe and efficient network roadways.

Despite the Developer's dirty tricks and propaganda campaign, the impact fee/rollback-the 25%-property-tax increase issue was decided, by the voters, in the last election. There is no reason to re-debate now.

The EMS Team of County Commissioners needs to simply do what they promised to do in their campaign: Increase the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and roll back the 25% property-tax hike correspondingly.

There should be no "negotiation" with the Developer. That is crazy. Did you negotiate your income-tax rate with the federal government?

Today's headline "article" in the Developer's Daily Sun is laughable. In addition to all the lies and distortions, it nowhere mentions that the increased impact fees would be matched by a decrease in property taxes.

The newspaper editors would have mentioned that but they would have been fired and marched off the property if they had done so.

There are only two things that you can’t escape. “ Death and Taxes”