Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Sumter Commissioners Risk Lawsuit (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sumter-commissioners-risk-lawsuit-317371/)

Aloha1 03-12-2021 05:30 PM

Sumter Commissioners Risk Lawsuit
 
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here. The latest move by the "Gang Of Three" to ignore their own decision to table any tax increase until their July meeting and proceed to increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility.

And why is this happening? Because the State legislature has put a halt to these egregious increases as of July 1st. So our new overlords want to enact their increase on June 30th. Way to go. Just ignore any research or learning and proceed to "kill" without due process.

golf2140 03-12-2021 05:45 PM

I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

Joe V. 03-12-2021 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf2140 (Post 1914734)
I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

Many people's blood pressures.

Polar Bear 03-12-2021 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf2140 (Post 1914734)
I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

I don’t have it in front of me, but I think it was a proposal to raise the max allowable to $360, not to immediately raise it.

Bill14564 03-12-2021 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1914730)
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here. The latest move by the "Gang Of Three" to ignore their own decision to table any tax increase until their July meeting and proceed to increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility.

And why is this happening? Because the State legislature has put a halt to these egregious increases as of July 1st. So our new overlords want to enact their increase on June 30th. Way to go. Just ignore any research or learning and proceed to "kill" without due process.

"increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes" and "smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility"??? That certainly doesn't sound like the situation with the Impact fees - those are what were moved up from July.

It is questionable whether the State can interfere in local decisions in the way the new bill attempts to do. Taking action now before the State attempts to prevent them from performing their fiduciary responsibilities is the right move.

"ignore any research???" You mean the 2019 study to determine what the impact fees ought to be? It seems like their position is to use that research, not ignore it.

This is a complicated issue which requires serious consideration not knee-jerk accusations.

EDIT: Are you referring to raising the maximum fire protection assessment? As others have already mentioned, this does not raise the assessment, it only raises the maximum allowed assessment; actually raising the assessment itself will come later. And, as I understand it, the bill in the State legislature wouldn't affect this assessment (though I will be looking into that since I might be mistaken)

Stu from NYC 03-12-2021 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf2140 (Post 1914734)
I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

Please read it again, the key word is allowable

tvbound 03-12-2021 06:35 PM

Recognizing that anyone, can sue anyone else, for just about anything, I'm curious as to what the legal basis would be to successfully sue duly elected officials, who have the ability to establish tax rates? I am also curious as to this July 1 Florida law referenced. Any links to it (I have searched, but can't seem to find it)? Thanks.

Bill14564 03-12-2021 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1914749)
Recognizing that anyone, can sue anyone else, for just about anything, I'm curious as to what the legal basis would be to successfully sue duly elected officials, who have the ability to establish tax rates? I am also curious as to this July 1 Florida law referenced. Any links to it (I have searched, but can't seem to find it)? Thanks.

Here is a recent article about the two bills. I haven't looked for a link to the actual bills yet.

EDIT:
HB 337
SB 750

tvbound 03-12-2021 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1914751)
Here is a recent article about the two bills. I haven't looked for a link to the actual bills yet.

EDIT:
HB 337
SB 750

The developer flexing political muscles?

Number 10 GI 03-12-2021 07:59 PM

How long have some of you been around? Max allowable means that they will raise the taxes to that amount, not today but in the next month or so after things quiet down.

What do these taxes have anything to do with impact fees? I thought these new commissioners were there for the "little people" who were being burdened with the costs for streets in the new areas. They are nothing but tax raising lying politicians.

John41 03-12-2021 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1914748)
Please read it again, the key word is allowable

The key words are “without notice”. Wonder how many will attend the April public hearing.

John41 03-12-2021 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1914756)
The developer flexing political muscles?

Definitely. But although I support DeSantis if this bill passes I won’t support him in the future.

tophcfa 03-12-2021 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1914730)
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here. The latest move by the "Gang Of Three" to ignore their own decision to table any tax increase until their July meeting and proceed to increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility.

And why is this happening? Because the State legislature has put a halt to these egregious increases as of July 1st. So our new overlords want to enact their increase on June 30th. Way to go. Just ignore any research or learning and proceed to "kill" without due process.

B.S., they are doing the right thing as the rules of the game were suddenly changed and a gun was put to their head to make a decision under a very tight time line. I applaud them for performing their fiduciary responsibilities by quickly reacting and moving to make a decision before their hands potentially get tied behind their backs.

Advogado 03-12-2021 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf2140 (Post 1914734)
I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

Did it occur to you that the Developer's impact fee is 0% with regard to fire protection?

Advogado 03-12-2021 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1914730)
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here. The latest move by the "Gang Of Three" to ignore their own decision to table any tax increase until their July meeting and proceed to increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility.

And why is this happening? Because the State legislature has put a halt to these egregious increases as of July 1st. So our new overlords want to enact their increase on June 30th. Way to go. Just ignore any research or learning and proceed to "kill" without due process.


Your post is factually challenged, reads like something the Developer would say, and ignores both history and the current facts. You gotta stop believing the nonsense that David R. Corder, the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, is publishing in the Daily Sun.

The History: As a result of the massive 25% property-tax increase, which was enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, outraged voters elected your so-called “Gang of Three” (better known as the EMS Team of Estep, Miller, and Search) in a landslide. The EMS Team campaigned on a pledge to roll back the property-tax increase by ending the Developer's sweetheart deal on impact fees.

The Current Facts: Unfortunately, Commissioner Estep made what has turned out to be a serious misstep when he moved to table action until July. Meanwhile, despite his obvious conflict of interest, T&D (a major Developer supplier) employee Bret Hage was quietly pushing, obviously at the direction of the Developer, legislation that would limit any increase in impact fees after July 1 to 3%. This underhanded strategy to protect the Developer's sweetheart deal, at the expense of the residents, has now come to light.

Consequently, Mr. Estep has joined Mr. Miller and Mr. Search to accelerate action in case the proposed legislation, which is opposed by the Florida League of Cities, gets passed. (Contrary to your post, it has not yet passed and if voters wake up to its implications, it will not pass.) In retrospect, it is too bad that the EMS Team didn't act immediately upon taking office in January rather than expecting good-faith negotiations with the Developer.

Advogado 03-12-2021 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1914756)
The developer flexing political muscles?

Obviously.

Two Bills 03-13-2021 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1914751)
Here is a recent article about the two bills. I haven't looked for a link to the actual bills yet

I never wrote that, and I deny anything it says!!:icon_wink:

dewilson58 03-13-2021 05:43 AM

Oh People.
The entertainment never ends.


Take away all of the current impact fee discounts.
The Developer will not care.
The cost will be passed onto new home buyers.
(Won't start for a couple years since land has been plotted & dirt moved on a lot of land)


Once the new fees start, it will amount to about $4mil per year.
$4mil out of a $250,000,000 budget..........there is your potential property tax roll-back.


Don't spend it all in one place.

Professor 03-13-2021 06:14 AM

Correct.

Rodebd1 03-13-2021 06:37 AM

So happy to see the commissioners doing their job and something positive for the people.

Rsenholzi 03-13-2021 06:47 AM

Ridiculous raising of taxes instead of impact fees
 
In the past year our taxes have been raised by 25% and now they are tripling our fire rates yet the developers impact fees remain far lower than any other county in the entire state of Florida. Now a senator from Sumter County is co-sponsoring a bill that will only allow impact fees to go up 3% . They taxes being imposed on us are far greater than 3% and are to cover the new services imposed on us by the developer! Why should they get off with 3% when we are getting jumps of 25% and now tripling the fire rates as a result of what they are doing! We need to fight this and impose the impact fees on the developer much in line with the real costs. The proposed impact fees are over 2 years old. Not one county in the state of Fl pays impact fees even close to the new amount. All the other counties pay triple that amount! We as citizens , need to take a stand before July when the bill for the 3% raise goes into effect. The developer needs to pay their share of the costs and not impose it on the citizens of Sumter County

algi45 03-13-2021 06:54 AM

Miller is okay. It's Estep who's wavering. Search is in the middle.

mydavid 03-13-2021 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf2140 (Post 1914734)
I just opened my mail and received a notice that they also was to raise the Fire Protection fee from $125.00 to $360.00 what else are the going to raise?

Someone has to pay to protect all the new multiple level apartment's buildings.

birdiebill 03-13-2021 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1914796)
Did it occur to you that the Developer's impact fee is 0% with regard to fire protection?

Did it occur to you that impact fees can not be used to pay for operating costs or for maintenance to existing roads, facilities etc?

I don't know what the fire protection fee pays for on our property tax bill, but I surmise it is for the services we get from the Fire Department and EMT coverage. If the costs of those services go up, as do the costs for most things over time, either the service has to be cut or the fee for the service has to increase. This may be a situation of increase the fee or cut the number of fire stations, personnel, maintenance, wages, insurance. Just look at what is happening to the cost of gasoline and home owners insurance. Wages increase over time. I surmise the maximum cap of the fire fee has been reached as the fee has increased over time. Now the cost of the services exceeds the $124.00 per taxable entity.

Altavia 03-13-2021 07:24 AM

Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Emergency services here are excellent and we need to support our first responders with good equipment and pay.

dewilson58 03-13-2021 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdiebill (Post 1914854)
Did it occur to you that impact fees can not be used to pay for operating costs or for maintenance to existing roads, facilities etc?


Nothing occurs to Guacamole.
I want the best trained & equiped, highest paid firefighters & EMS responders in Florida in TV.

Advogado 03-13-2021 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdiebill (Post 1914854)
Did it occur to you that impact fees can not be used to pay for operating costs or for maintenance to existing roads, facilities etc?

I don't know what the fire protection fee pays for on our property tax bill, but I surmise it is for the services we get from the Fire Department and EMT coverage. If the costs of those services go up, as do the costs for most things over time, either the service has to be cut or the fee for the service has to increase. This may be a situation of increase the fee or cut the number of fire stations, personnel, maintenance, wages, insurance. Just look at what is happening to the cost of gasoline and home owners insurance. Wages increase over time. I surmise the maximum cap of the fire fee has been reached as the fee has increased over time. Now the cost of the services exceeds the $124.00 per taxable entity.

I know that impact fees can only be used to pay for infrastructure necessitated by the new development, not operating costs. The point is that the Developer's impact fees pay only 40% of the cost of his roads and nothing for the costs of his other infrastructure-- like fire stations, fire trucks, and other fire-fighting equipment. We make up the shortfall through our property taxes and the fire assessment.

Bogie Shooter 03-13-2021 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by algi45 (Post 1914840)
Miller is okay. It's Estep who's wavering. Search is in the middle.

Descriptions from the past.......

Of the Three Stooges!😀

elevatorman 03-13-2021 08:10 AM

The base rate for a firefighter is $11.35 / hour to start. That is roughly $4.00 above todays minimum wage. 60% of Florida voters voted to raise the minimum wage in Florida to $15.00. If a firefighter is to stay at the same $4.00 above rate an increase in Fire Protection Fees will be needed. I don't want a firefighter to be paid minimum wage.

diva1 03-13-2021 08:10 AM

It is a bill in the legislature right now that, if passed, would go into effect July 1.

Advogado 03-13-2021 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1914809)
Oh People.
The entertainment never ends.


Take away all of the current impact fee discounts.
The Developer will not care.
The cost will be passed onto new home buyers.
(Won't start for a couple years since land has been plotted & dirt moved on a lot of land)


Once the new fees start, it will amount to about $4mil per year.
$4mil out of a $250,000,000 budget..........there is your potential property tax roll-back.


Don't spend it all in one place.

To say that the Developer "will not care" demonstrates your lack of understanding of economics, business, the history of the Developer's impact fee, and the Developer's maneuvering to try to maintain his sweetheart deal. Costs matter to any business, and higher impact fees will be a cost to the Developer. Why do you think the Developer's puppet Bret Hage (who has an obvious conflict of interest since he works for T&D, one of the Developer's largest suppliers) is co-sponsoring HB 337 if the Developer "will not care" if he finally has to pay for his infrastructure?

Furthermore, it doesn't matter to us, the current residents, if the Developer raises his house prices because he finally has to pay the infrastructure costs of his massive expansion of The Villages. Then the cost of the new infrastructure is passed on to the people who necessitate it.

Advogado 03-13-2021 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1914809)
Oh People.
The entertainment never ends.


Take away all of the current impact fee discounts.
The Developer will not care.
The cost will be passed onto new home buyers.
(Won't start for a couple years since land has been plotted & dirt moved on a lot of land)


Once the new fees start, it will amount to about $4mil per year.
$4mil out of a $250,000,000 budget..........there is your potential property tax roll-back.


Don't spend it all in one place.

To say that the Developer "will not care" demonstrates your lack of understanding of economics, business, and the Developer's maneuvering to try to maintain his sweetheart deal. Costs matter to any business, and higher impact fees will be a cost to the Developer. Why do you think the Developer's puppet Bret Hage (who has an obvious conflict of interest since he works for T&D, one of the Developer's largest suppliers) is co-sponsoring HB 337 if the Developer "will not care" if he finally has to pay for his infrastructure?

Furthermore, it doesn't matter to us, the current residents, if the Developer raises his house prices because he finally has to pay the infrastructure costs of his massive expansion of The Villages. Then the cost of the new infrastructure is passed on to the people who necessitate it.

MrFlorida 03-13-2021 08:48 AM

See you at the meeting, April 13th, 7pm, Everglades rec center . Save the date. Voice your opinion !

GolfGirl122 03-13-2021 08:50 AM

This is hardly a matter for a lawsuit against the Commissioners - however, think about it, the Commissioners want to increase the Impact fee for new construction and the developer and friends fight back. They even go so far as to get legislation passed to cap their potential expense. Then the Commissioners send out a notice to residents that (due to future construction) the Fire District needs money to keep up with all the new construction. What??? How about if we all just give the developer one of our credit cards and they can use it to continue all this building. Thank you to the Commissioners who are trying to expose the machine at work.

tophcfa 03-13-2021 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlorida (Post 1914926)
See you at the meeting, April 13th, 7pm, Everglades rec center . Save the date. Voice your opinion !

You better have somebody drop you off, there won’t be any place to park.

birdiebill 03-13-2021 09:22 AM

Here is a couple of facts for those wondering about the Fire Protection Assessment. First, the Villages Safety Division received a FEMA grant last year in October to cover the costs of the additional firemen needed in The Villages. Here is the official info:

The Villages Public Safety Department has been awarded a multi-million-dollar grant to hire new 27 firefighters.

The $6.52 million SAFER grant was awarded by FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security. It provides funding for the firefighters for three years, which includes salary and benefits. And unlike in past years when similar grants were awarded, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, departments that received the SAFER grants won’t be required to provide any kind of matching funds.

Second, I wondered what the Fire Protection Assessment covered and found this from Lake County and presume our Sumter County/The Villages fee is used for similar purposes:

Question: What is Lake County's present Residential Fire Assessment Fee?
Answer: The current fee is $206 for Fire Protection. This fee is used for firefighters' salaries, as well as to buy necessary equipment and to pay for operating expenses such as fuel and health insurance. Property owners pay this flat fee once a year, no matter how many times the fire department is called to their home or property for assistance.

crash 03-13-2021 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1914730)
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here. The latest move by the "Gang Of Three" to ignore their own decision to table any tax increase until their July meeting and proceed to increase everyone in Sumter County's taxes smacks of a violation of their fiduciary responsibility.

And why is this happening? Because the State legislature has put a halt to these egregious increases as of July 1st. So our new overlords want to enact their increase on June 30th. Way to go. Just ignore any research or learning and proceed to "kill" without due process.

It is not a tax it is an impact fee. This is the money used to build all those roads south of 44 that if they weren't there the developer would not be able to build houses down there. The tax payers are subsidizing the developer with higher taxes to offset the sweetheart impact fee that the developer gets. This new bill is the developer going to the state to over ride the commissioners wanting to raise the fee.

Advogado 03-13-2021 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdiebill (Post 1914952)
Here is a couple of facts for those wondering about the Fire Protection Assessment. First, the Villages Safety Division received a FEMA grant last year in October to cover the costs of the additional firemen needed in The Villages. Here is the official info:

The Villages Public Safety Department has been awarded a multi-million-dollar grant to hire new 27 firefighters.

The $6.52 million SAFER grant was awarded by FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security. It provides funding for the firefighters for three years, which includes salary and benefits. And unlike in past years when similar grants were awarded, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, departments that received the SAFER grants won’t be required to provide any kind of matching funds.

Second, I wondered what the Fire Protection Assessment covered and found this from Lake County and presume our Sumter County/The Villages fee is used for similar purposes:

Question: What is Lake County's present Residential Fire Assessment Fee?
Answer: The current fee is $206 for Fire Protection. This fee is used for firefighters' salaries, as well as to buy necessary equipment and to pay for operating expenses such as fuel and health insurance. Property owners pay this flat fee once a year, no matter how many times the fire department is called to their home or property for assistance.

The Developer pays a fire impact fee of 0%. What a surprise that the residents have to pick up the tab for the increased fire stations and equipment necessary as a result of the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. Yet we still have a small number of hard-core Developer-philes posting, on this website, a defense of the Developer's sweetheart deal on impact fees.

crash 03-13-2021 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfGirl122 (Post 1914929)
This is hardly a matter for a lawsuit against the Commissioners - however, think about it, the Commissioners want to increase the Impact fee for new construction and the developer and friends fight back. They even go so far as to get legislation passed to cap their potential expense. Then the Commissioners send out a notice to residents that (due to future construction) the Fire District needs money to keep up with all the new construction. What??? How about if we all just give the developer one of our credit cards and they can use it to continue all this building. Thank you to the Commissioners who are trying to expose the machine at work.

If you read the letter they want to raise the cap on the fire assessment that is currently at $126. This has been in place for 14 years and they are butting up to it at $125. The new development is not what is increasing the cost because every house pays the fee. What is increasing the cost is inflation. They are just increasing the cap on what they can charge.

Advogado 03-13-2021 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash (Post 1914964)
If you read the letter they want to raise the cap on the fire assessment that is currently at $126. This has been in place for 14 years and they are butting up to it at $125. The new development is not what is increasing the cost because every house pays the fee. What is increasing the cost is inflation. They are just increasing the cap on what they can charge.

What is in the background is the Developer's sweetheart impact fee of 0% for the fire stations and equipment necessitated by his massive expansion of The Villages. Tell the Commissioners to get moving on enacting realistic impact fees.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.32 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.