New CDC data !
 

OK folks, here’s the science from the CDC. We are being lied to!

 After warning for months that vaccinated people should still be cautious (masks) in order to not infect others, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests they may not be at much risk of transmitting the coronavirus.

“Vaccinated people do not carry the virus — they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday. That’s “not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data.”

Walensky was referring to a new CDC study that suggests those fully inoculated with the vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer don’t transmit the virus!!! Researchers looked at how the shots protected nearly 4,000 health-care workers, first responders, and other essential workers toiling in eight U.S. locations against the virus and more-contagious variants. Following a single dose of either vaccine, the participants’ risk of infection was reduced by 80 percent, and that figure jumped to 90 percent after the second dose. Without infection, people are unable to spread the virus!!!! The results are similar to what scientists saw in clinical trials for the vaccines, which found that two doses of either two-dose vaccine had an efficacy rate of around 95 percent.

"new CDC study"


That pretty much says it all and doesn't indicate to me that any "lying" is going on. Now for the group latching onto all of the other wacky conspiracy theories, from tracking devices to changing DNA, that's a different story. I guess I just don't understand how some find it hard to understand or comprehend, that when "following the science" - things will change.

We’re is the lie. They put out what they thought would happen and a way to avoid it and now with more info they have updated the info. Don’t believe that is a lie.

That said, someone my wife works with who is fully vaccinated came down with Covid-19 yesterday so it is not foolproof.

On a good not, there was a report a week or so again stating that all the COVID precautions just about eliminated the flu this past winter.

I am sorry you feel you are being lied to.

I am sure you are able to back up your accusation of lying.

This is how the divide happens. One side latches onto a catch-phrase, and refuses to let go of it even when the rest of the world has moved on to actual facts. "The CDC lies", said the guy who wanted your attention. Who among you chose to accept THIS as fact, and refuses to let it go even in the face of contradictory information? Who among you will choose to believe that anything the CDC says to you is a lie? Or will you only believe it when it's convenient, when "lie" fits your agenda, or the agenda of whoever is feeding you the phrase?

Some people are incapable of seeing that the CDC is not a singular person, it is made up of thousands of people, any of whom might come out and tell the truth in the face of a lie. That hasn't happened. An entire organization of thousands of scientists and doctors and researchers that exists to keep Americans healthy, have NOT conspired against you, or against any political group.

They are doing the best they can with what they're given, about a virus that hasn't ever existed before. Virii have existed before, and even other Coronavirii have existed before. It is because they have at least SOME familiarity with the science, that this hasn't become the plague of the 21st century.

Put all your faith in them? No of course not. They are not without flaws. But put enough faith in them that when they say "as of the present moment, THIS is what we know?" Absolutely. They might not know what things will be tomorrow. But when they say "this is what it is today" you can believe them.

Well said. Thank you.

It’s a new virus.

OK, this quote was from April 1st, a month ago. This quote is NOT new!

It'''s official: Vaccinated people don'''t spread COVID-19 | Fortune

The next day - CDC walked back the statement

CDC Walks Back Claim that Vaccinated People Do Not Carry COVID | PEOPLE.com

Just quoting the facts as reported.
Personally, I am very confident that as a Covid recovered person, and immunized, I pose no threat to anyone except stupid people... LOL

She is obviously in the 5% they did not say 100% effective vaccine.

yeah - people kinda forget that 'fully immunized' does not mean 'fully protected'.

From the beginning, they've been very open that 5% of the 'fully vaccinated' may not be 'fully protected'.

Unfortunately, some people have conspiracy theories and believe that means everyone who is vaccinated is unprotected in some fashion.

I don’t see a lie. Things change and evolve.

Lie : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive.

I don’t think any of our health officials have that intent. As they learn more about what is happening they share that new information with us so we can make more informed decisions for ourselves.

I don't know if they have been lying or not (being real charitable), but I do know that doctors have been saying this since the first vaccination. Medical professionals have been saying all along that once vaccinated, you cannot carry or pass on the virus to others, as the virus is killed when ingested into your inoculated body. I am not a medical professional but I have believed them all along and have thought from the first that the CDC leans to the political. I only wear a mask where there are signs requesting the wearing of them. If I thought that I was being dangerous, I would have been wearing them continuously. Not that I put a whole lot of stock in homemade or cloth masks. Even the loose fitting paper masks do not seem to be very useful. But, that belongs in another thread. And of course, this too is just my opinion. I am NO expert but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

The CDC did not say you can’t test positive for it. The point is that you’re not going to pass it on and you’re going to be asymptomatic! People need to not confuse this!
The number a Dr. quoted yesterday was that with this new data you only have .008 of 1% of passing it on once you have been fully inoculated by either the Moderna or the Pfizer vaccine

I dont see any lies. Its called “updates”. And they come out almost everyday on every topic. No one is sitting behind the scenes thinking,”. Hmmmmm. What conspiracy theories n lies can I put out there today for those who believe everything they read”. Lol

5% of 300 million would be alot of people . Why taka a chance on so small a thing as a mask? They aren't saying stay locked up in your bathroom!!!!

When the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?

Why not? You have a better chance of hitting the lottery. Same reason I do not wear long pants in Florida, on the off chance that I MIGHT get a sunburn on my legs. I prefer comfort at the price of a negligible chance of consequence. But, I have no qualms with those that are germaphobes and wish to wear a mask the rest of their lives. Do what you feel is safe for you and allow other folks their choice.

The real problem is that people believe everything CDC says, even though they have changed their initial opinion a few times.
Please do your own research, don’t listen to TV and using your own intuition you may reach to a more realistic picture of what is going on.

Facts or Opinions?

And where are you going to do your own research, if not from the scientists who are trying to sort this thing out? Considering it's a NEW Virus.

Lying is a statement made with the intent to deceive. Is that CDC's objective? Why would they want to do that?

As a scientific agency, the CDC needs to have actual data before making recommendations. A large enough sample of people fully vaccinated has probably only been available since the end of January /middle of February. Those people need to be followed for a reasonable period of time (4-6 weeks?) to make as accurate a conclusion as possible, so just coming out with the change now seems correct to me.

Saw this on Facebook. Says it very well…IMHO.

Science is not the truth. Science is finding the truth. When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.

This is Covid.

This statement does not convince me that we are being lied to. Fortunately, prior supervisors taught me to read log normal graphs and understand statistical reports. I find a glass of good red wine helps too. The baselines for the virus have gone up and up and up since early 2020. We still have a viral threat out there. Most health organizations err on the side of safety and caution. New information can and should tweak their directives. As far as I am concerned, that’s a sign they are alive and kicking’ and reading their data feed.
I don’t always agree, but I respect their input.

I recall in one of the first announcements of the pandemic a brief mention that it is better for all of us, rather than some of us to mask up. Call it avoiding looking different or being on the same team .. The goal was to conquer and not be taken down by the virus.

The CDC is a federal government organization, run by small group of political appointees. The CDC normally has a great reputation, but there is nothing wrong with using research from outside of the CDC to help form one's opinion on what "information" one wishes to trust. Personally, I do not take ANY information(?) that comes from the government at face value. I believe in the part of the quote that says "...but verify."

The "5% number" is generally misinterpreted. The correct way to interpret the "5% number" from the vaccine trials is that the probability of becoming "positive" (and the definition of "positive" differed between the trials) if you are vaccinated and exposed to the virus is reduced by a factor of 20x when compared to someone who is not vaccinated. The number of people who were exposed was not known. Subsequent data put the percentage of breakthrough cases for the vaccinated at 0.008%. Guidance to wear a mask should be directed at the greater than 50% of the US population that has yet to receive their first dose or those who have been vaccinated but have serious health issues.

I think it (as with most things) is not that cut and dried. I believe that the CDC's primary interest is in protecting the health of American citizens. I believe Dr. Fauci is sincere in having the exact same interest. I don't believe either can be "trusted" to know best, but I believe they can be trusted to know enough to follow their guidelines and adjust to any changes they make with them.

You don't need to "trust" the CDC, it's a silly concept. You're not putting your life into their hands and running head-first over a cliff. You're not a lemming. You're not a minion, or a sycophant, or a slave. You don't have to "trust" them. Get that word out of the conversation, it doesn't belong.

You need to ACCEPT that they are the authority of this topic, and there is no authority more knowledgeable than they, at the present time. You need to ACCEPT that when they learn something new, they will determine whether or not it is pertinent to convey to the public and if they determine as such, they will so convey.

As for people not working - there are millions of people not working, who are also not collecting unemployment. So they're not getting anything "extra" for not working.

There are people who were working, making a LOT of money, and are now receiving unemployment checks plus $300/week, and STILL not making as much as they were when they were working, and would probably LOVE to return to work but their business has gone out of business, or has re-grouped and no longer needs them, in a market where those kinds of high-paying jobs are few and far between.

Then there are the people who are accepting the unemployment money because it's better than what they were getting. While I can't exactly fault them for doing that, I really hope their former employers do NOT hire them back when their checks stop coming. As a customer, I resent that they WERE willing to help me when they were paid however much they were paid, but sold out for an extra $6,000 (1200/month * 6 months). My contribution to their company over the course of however many years I shop there, is worth more than that $6000. So yes I hope they realize they should've stuck it out, because who wants to hire someone who'll jump ship the second an extra temporary paycheck comes along?

And then there are those people who sincerely have taking a look at their lives, who are not in such dire straights that they can't survive without a steady income, who are choosing to reflect, and redirect their priorities. Change jobs, change careers, become a beach bum for awhile, travel, go off-grid in the mountains somewhere. I'm guessing those are a significant minority but I'm also sure they exist.

I retired because of bursitis. I could've applied for and received that extra money, but it would've been dishonest, and I hate the process of collecting unemployment checks. Paperwork, forms, appointments, the whole thing. Can't stand it. I -could- have gone back to office work somewhere, gotten paid more, but eh - I'm almost 60. I've been working since I was 16, with very few breaks, and in some years, I was working multiple jobs every week. I'm over it. So I'm just flat out retired.

Evolving science is not a lie
 

This is a new and novel virus that science continues to study. The CDC makes it’s recommendations based on the current information available to them. Initially, that information was based on other Coronavirus. As research continues on the COVID19 virus, information specifically about how this virus is different in the real world is discovered. This takes time, and is how science is suppose to work.
As the CDC finds out more about the virus and it’s methods of transmission and infection, it refines and updates its guidelines. As the virus continues to grow and mutate, as all viruses do, the research will continue and the guidelines will be adjusted to minimize the threat. They are not lying to you, they are working hard to protect the world in the face of fear, uneducated opposition or unsupported conspiracy theories. And keep in mind that 90% reduction in the infection rate still means that there is a 10% chance of infection. The presence of a large pool of unvaccinated people worldwide makes that 10% a significant current threat and create a huge potential of a new variant mutation that decreases the effectiveness of the current vaccines.
I personally thank God that the CDC and other scientists are willing to continue to fight hard to protect all of us in the face of wrongful vilification and the hatred spewed across the media. :bigbow:

5% means one in twenty are unprotected. It has nothing to do with them catching anything.

And of that 1 in 20, the majority are either asymptomatic, if they get exposed, or naturally immune.

Do you put your seatbelt on when sitting in the car in a parking lot, on the off-chance that someone might hit you? That's what you are doing while wearing a mask.

And if you wear one once vaccinated, well, I guess there's no help. that's why shampoo bottles have directions, I suppose...

We expect, we demand perfect exact answers. Reality for most things in the real world the only answer is risk vs reward.

As far as vaccinated people, do we wish to have random stops by police where you if, caught without a mask must be carrying proof that you have been fully vaccinated of you get a fine paid on the spot. Hum, perhaps we will find like service dog vests, you can buy a fake badge on Amazon stating I have been vaccinated.

I don't know what the current policy is. As kids we were forced to receive vaccines for polio and small pox. They were forced. Both used to be killers both are gone.

A debate. My view is just like drunk driving you have every right to kill yourself. When, you drive drunk you risk killing people other than yourself-YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT.

Yep, and this pandemic is amongst the worse killer of any virus humanity has encountered.

That's why most Colleges and Universities have already made vaccinations MANDATORY for Fall 2021.

Once the vaccine is approved for under-16s, I hope and pray they add Covid-19 to the list of mandatory vaccines to attend public schools as well.

As for our generation, we're supposed to be smart. To be able to live in TV, we made a few good life choices, right?

So, why do people wait until they are older to decide they are going to go out with a bang by putting themselves in danger?

Science Evolves
 

Science evolves as more data and information is acquired.

It is NOT a static entity. Remember, at one time Science said the World was Flat.

Although it would not surprise me if some folks still think it is😉

I believe both the trials and the recent, real-world reviews measured effectiveness against symptomatic illness. The vaccines are advertised as being 95% effective against developing Covid with symptoms, the trials did not measure for asymptomatic cases.

It isn't entirely clear whether the real-world reviews included asymptomatic cases. Since it is less likely that a vaccinated person would feel the need to be tested without first developing symptoms, it is likely that the breakthrough cases were primarily symptomatic.

EDIT: Here is a study that also looked for asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic cases.