Solar for your home
 

Looking for opinions on adding solar. Is it worth the money?

Search for other threads on this topic. In my opinion, it is not worth the money. The payback period for the upfront cost is way too long.

People who have solar are happy.

However, it is not worthwhile from a financial perspective here is why:

Your electricity is purchased at retail .12 per KwH but excess electricity generated is sold back to the utility at wholesale, slightly under .08. This coupled with .12KwH is about the national average (no it is not cheaper than the average) and Florida offers no state tax incentives for solar makes this a losing proposition especially when opportunity costs are considered.

OP, you may want to clarify, solar for pool heating, or solar electric for lowering your electric bill. I agree with above comments, solar electric does not have a break even point in my lifetime, solar pool heating appears to be a good idea. There have been many threads on both of these topics so a search on this site will provide lots of info and comments.

This for the home, not a pool. My son-in-law is considering because his electric bill is over $500. per month (pool, kids and lots of house). Located in Va. Got his 1st quote around $56,000. Placed on a metal roof. Seems like very high, but they told him it will pay for itself in 6 years.

I have no idea of the economics associated with a solar electric installation in Virginia, however, I would never rely on the word of the installer about the payback time, they have a vested interest in selling the system. IMHO, 6 years seems too short, but this is highly dependent on the rate the local utility will pay (or credit) the electricity generated by the system.
As noted previously there were several threads on this topic before with several excellent comments about all of the costs and financial considerations for this type of project. I would suggest an internet search on the subject and find an impartial source for info. If you son has a financial advisor they may be able to help with the financial considerations.
There are lots of considerations so please have your son do a complete investigation, also many electric utilities will have customer service people that will provide advice on what needs to be considered or may have a website with info. The state PUC should also have information.
Good luck with your sons project.

Do the math:

$56,000/$500 = 112 months/12 = 9.33 years.

So, even if the electric bill goes to zero, and you consider the lost opportunity investment value of $56,000 to be zero, it would take more than 9 years (not 6 years) to pay for the system.

I agree with finding an impartial source for information. But, good luck in finding one. Even the utility companies and the Government are biased in favor of solar systems. They usually don't consider the lost investment value of the initial cost or the cost to maintain and repair the system. The Federal Government says that the value of your house will increase by the initial cost for the system, but I have never heard a real estate agent who agrees with that assessment.

Before he spends several thousand spend 299.00.

With the whole house energy monitor Home Sense - Sense.com he can see -Why- the bill is 500.00 per month. With Sense he with have granular level of detail. Is the high bill because of a bad or inefficient HVAC? Sense will ID the HVAC and tell him how much he is using in detail. Sense will tell him if the resistance heat is on in addition to the AC. Is his submersible well pump running 24/7? Sense knows.

Real story, I had a 'Profesional" install my smart thermostat. He wired it so all heat was emergency or resistance heat (not a heat pump). Sense gave me the data to see it. Maybe your son has demand based (time of day) billing where daytime electricity costs more, with sense he can tell his wife dry the clothes in the electric dryer after 7 so we can save 38.00 or whatever.

Make sense (ha).

Another story, my neighbors installed solar power -and- solar domestic water heating. Water heating sounds like a brilliant way to save, doesn't it? We all read that somewhere how expensive it is to heat water with electricity, it must be true! Ah, no. He saved less than 15.00 a month. 4,800 to save pennies. If he had installed Sense first he would have known how utterly foolish that was.

Please give me a thumbs up for this detailed reply.

I'm not particularly a fan of solar, but there are several ways to look at break even:
Energy Cost: Conservative history shows yearly increases of approx 3% - assume no decrease in usage
Resulting Energy Bill - many assume to be zero - but there are daily administrative fees - will they and taxes still be there ?
Performance guarantees of solar company - is your net energy bill guaranteed or estimated - how is it trued up
Cash outlay - that is your quoted cash price less your federal tax credit (and state credit if in an income tax state)
This is cash out of pocket and used to compare the opportunity cost of investing these funds vs paying for the system - if you;re an investing genius you'll use 8 or 10 per cent here.. a mere mortal might use 4 or 5%
Solar company provided financing - beware of setup fees - if none, then do the simple math
financing the net cost above for 15 years or 20 years at rates as low as .99% with NOTHING down. Is it less than your current bill ? \
If it is, even just 20 or 30 dollars a month, look at what it will be in Year 5 or YEAR 10. You will be paying the same finance rate, but your electric bill will have compounded up by at least 3% per year. Much higher savings.

Then you get to make the other judgements. Longevity of company making panels and company doing installations. Are their warranties worth anything ?

Did you call your insurance agent to see what your homeowners carrier thinks about panels on the roof ? Will panels hold up to hail damage ? if not who pays ?

Have fun !

Not sure where you got the 3 percent annual increase for electricity. The Federal Government data shows that electricity has only increased by about 1.5 percent per year in the last 10 years. When adjusted for inflation, electricity has actually gone down in cost. And, electricity usage continues to go down as appliances, light bulbs, etc., become more energy efficient.

I agree with questioning the value of solar contractor warranties. It is typical for a solar contractor to offer a 25 or 30 year "parts and labor" warranty. That is ridiculous. No contractor installing anything can offer and perform on that type of warranty and stay in business.

He is still doing research. Thank you for the advice. Hopefully he will just enjoy the pool!

No, not worth it. . . electric bills are very sensitive to amount of usage during times of day and year. Best to get a really good analysis for your usage, as $500 is alot for most houses.

My boss installed solar, and the next summer the region had the highest annual percentage of cloud cover days in recorded history. . . LOL! spending X $ to save maybe 50 per month is a losing proposition, is a cost minimization strategy, and I prefer an income maximization strategy.

but then again, i am in finance and work for an gas and electric utility, and have a small understanding of the economics.

finance guy

We have had 3 off grid homes powered by solar. Solar is much more expensive than grid power and, with limited exceptions, is generally not economically justified. Exceptions are, in some instances, a solar powered pool pump or well pump. Depending upon pump size, these pumps can generally be run by solar panels of 1KW or less. There is currently a 22% tax credit for solar placed in service in 2021 but that credit will expire at the end of the year unless it is renewed by Congress. Solar pool heating is a different topic, at least in my opinion. I have had a solar pool heating system and found it helpful. Another issue with solar panels is roof installation. There are two issues: The first is the stress generated by high winds; the second is the additional cost of removing and replacing the panel when the roofing is replaced.

In MA, it was worth it. SRECs alone were over $15000 a year. Heating and electrical usage costs on our farm were over 10,000 a year. Feb historically costs is $2500 for the month.
We had 175 panels on the roof that cost $200,000. A 5 year payback. In Massachusetts!
I dont think FL has an SREC program or net metering though.

Forgot to add it was 175 panels and I forget the power...maybe 32kw? That doesnt sound right....

Love it
 

I have 2 homes both with solar and battery storage- NH and FL - not sure you save money... but being off grid you do control your expenses. and if you add things like tesla vehicle, lithium golf car.. (as I have done) you can add all of that extra savings into it. (I have no vehicle maintenance, oil changes, filters, belts, hoses.) and don't care what the gas costs at the pump. I have a 25 year warranty. (I probably have 25 years of life left on this body) for me it was worth all of the benefits going solar.
literally too many to list, below is the short list.
snow sheets off of the tempered glass roof. no power outages. no electric bill
FL sunshine state no brainer, no maintenance, free driving. (tesla vehicles ONLY need new tires) nope you don't use brake pads to stop)

and you're doing some good.. so they tell me . :coolsmiley:

PROTIP- may states are adding VPP (virtual power plants) states are required to have XX amount of VPP (folks with solar and battery) in NH which isn't the sunshine state-- my local power company cuts me a check for summer dip into battery in high demand times $1200.00. this is over and above no electric bill and REC credits. (and not to mention FED credits when both systems installed )

That's a small solar farm to power a ?? farm, which isn't quite the same as maybe 10 panels on a house roof. your original cost had some economies of scale, being on land rather than a roof, that is a commercial investment and not quite a residential scenario.

Another way that used to be available, though not sure it is still available, is to buy a portion of a solar farm development and receive a portion of the revenue generated to offset your current electric bill.

The point is that the size of a residential roof doesn't generate enough during the day to make the net metering profitable. Put a small solar farm on the land with a sun tracking array, and you have more generation for a shorter payback.

Guess I should ask the ARC if I could put a small solar farm in my backyard and if really daring front yard as well.

That’s great!!
Did you use Tesla solar? How many power walls?

I received a quote from Tesla roof tiles with 3 power walls and it was interesting to say the least.

in FL - its all TESLA ! 1 power wall.
in NH - it's Sunpower/Sonnen battery (tesla doesn't go far in the mtns of NH)

both 16kwh

in the villages my home is mostly natural gas 1 power wall was sufficient.

Did you go with panels or tiles?

IMHO, I would not expect ARC approval for a ground level solar panel array, you can get approval for roof mounted arrays. Let us know what you find out.

Panels in both places- in the Villages no ARC needed for panels.. I dont think solar tiles will work as the villages has a strict shingles rule. and no to solar farms in a development such as the villages.

Hope this helps.

In addition to the above, you need to factor in your power company. If you have a for profit company like Duke or Leesburg power, you get the same price for every kWh you generate as what you pay to consume - i.e. if it's $0.13/kWh, then you get credited $0.13/kWh, so you only need to generate as much as you consume.

If you have a coop, like SECO, they aren't bound by this law. In my case, they charge $0.11/kWh, but only give you $0.08/kWh - so you need to generate far more than you consume to cover this difference. In addition, it costs $1/day to be a "member", so your bill will always be ~$30/month regardless of what you do.

Solar Panels
 

I was wondering the same thing. Sat through a few presentations but just more confused! Then I set up a second appointment with SOLAR SUN when my daughter came down to visit, figuring she could help explain anything I might miss.

This time they sent James Hall. VERY honest and informative!! I finally felt like I understood the advantages and disadvantages and all that would be involved. When he left he let me know it was a close call as to the advantages. Depending on whether I wanted to leave this home to my children and have the advantages for them down the road, or decline the installation because it was of little value to me and the near future.
AND I received a $100 VISA gift card for sitting thru the presentation!

(In addition if you refer someone that gets the solar panels installed, they receive some cash too.)

Maybe your son is smart enough to not "tell his wife" when to dry the clothes. Maybe he's even able to operate a dryer on his own after 7 PM. Even if it is a household job she agrees to manage, perhaps she likes her evening free of running the dryer. So after running the program to find potential savings options, somehow TELLING your wife when to run the dryer smacks of a serious case of stupid if not outright misogyny. While I recognize you were picking a possible savings finding, your choice might reflect an unrecognized view of gender roles and authority that should have ended with Leave it to Beaver.

By the way..
Please give me a thumbs up for this detailed reply? No, I don't need social media approval bonus points for my self-esteem

Just curious. When he calculated the payback period for the initial cost for the system, did he include the lost investment return of the initial cost, and what rate of return did he use? Most payback calculations include no investment value, which often results in an unrealistic payback period of about half of what it should be.

"On an average day, 22 percent of men reported doing housework—such as cleaning or doing laundry" U S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, American Time Use Survey: Charts by Topic: Household activities in the link are detailed breakouts on time spent by females/males on laundry. This is not a Leave it the Beaver standard, a figment of my imagination.

Blueash's post is a small example what is wrong with political correctness. The story is changed to fit the advocates political leanings but it simply does not change the facts. Facts are an inconvenient truth to political correctness, even in something as innocuous as solar power.

Facts are kryptonite to political correctness. When faced with solid facts advocates resort to insults and personal attacks. It is truly a sad when a discussion on solar energy becomes an advocate for changing gender roles sounding board, very sad indeed.

After much study my son-in-law decided it wasn't worth the money. Thank goodness. He has a beautiful home and solar panels would have been sooooo ugly.

Solar cost
 

Spot on…:mademyday:

That’s funny. I’ll wager most of those men were single or lied.

The very instant that solar power becomes affordably priced we will have more panels on the roof to join those heating our pool water. I hope that my dear husband will NOT try to take over my cooking job. He has stolen the laundry and the cleaning since we are retired. Now that he knows how to sort laundry and grabs things quickly from the dryer to hang them I'm cool with it.

There isn't anything wrong with saying things that have always been typically gender related. Not a damn thing wrong with it. Men ARE stronger. Woman ARE smarter. ;) (You all know I don't mean that.)

I am glad I am married to someone who has always tried to make my life easier. I hope he feels the same about me.

All depends on how many years you have left. It will take at least 10 years to recoup your expenses. You also have to have a new roof, so add another 7k if your roof is older.

I understand your point, but how many years you have left has nothing to do with it. When you do the math, it's a bad investment at any age.