Relocating from NY to back to Florida
 

I am retired, and I am a former resident of Florida. Three years ago I left Florida and I am renting in NY. I have a NY driver’s license and my vehicles are registered in NY. Subsequently I purchased a home in The Villages and listed it as my secondary residence. I have recently heard about how my taxes can be raised “indiscriminately” unless I become a resident. I am now considering making Florida my permanent home again with long visits to NY from time to time. Does anyone foresee a problem with NY?

If you are talking about property taxes there is a homestead exemption available if Florida is your primary home. See your Florida county tax assessor site for more information. New York State income tax is a different topic and more complicated

I know a couple people that spend a decent amount of time in NY. One is a CEO and she documents everything as to her location as NY came after her for taxes two years ago and she proved they had no claim.

My experience with NY was when I stopped working in Manhattan as NJ resident. 3 years went by and they came after me for owed. taxes for 97. We calculated it again, I owed about $50. We paid it. Some months later, I got the same notice for 98. I owed about $35 and we paid it. Some months later I got the notice for 99. The difference was in 99, I worked 9 months in NY. We calculated it out, they owed me about $75. We filed, got a notice that it was beyond that statute of limitation for refunds and they owed me nothing.

My takeaway from that, to steal a description from Matt Taibbi, is that NY is a vampire squid jamming it's blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

Now that I'm full time in FL, we're being careful not to trigger the same for NJ. They will stick their hand in my pocket if they can get away with it.

No, your taxes don't get raised "indiscriminately." There's a thing called Homesteading.

Basically here's how it works:

You buy a home, you get assessed, the tax is $xxxxxx/year.

BUT - you apply for homesteading by the deadline. That means you are using that specific home as your primary residence for a minimum of 6 months and 1 day every year.

When you do that, you get a DISCOUNTED property tax.

So it's not that non-homesteaders pay more, it's rather that homesteaders pay less. It's a matter of perspective.

This is part of how Florida can get by without income tax. The property taxes for the state are somewhat high, UNLESS you live in the state most of the year.

There are also rules about owning multiple properties in Florida that affect homesteading. You'd have to look that up though, I only know the rules exist, and don't know what the rules are.

I know of a very successful tort attorney who relocated from California to Texas. CA, NY, NJ and other states do not want to lose taxes from their high income taxpayers. In his case the state actually kept track of where his cell phone was. Since he litigates all over the US I am sure they had a time with him. His wife loved CA and insisted they keep a home there where she could spend time. That certainly added to his problems.

They will track your ezpass, credit card charges, phone calls, etc if you are a high value target. Nothing new, they have done this for decades. Keep meticulous documents if you have exposure. The NY audit manual is online if concerned. See what they did to Jeter of the Yankees,

Taxman: Derek Jeter cheated New York out of millions - New York Daily News

A well- off friend who previously lived in NY went thru one of these audits. My friend kept detailed records of every day spent in NY v FL or traveling. They prevailed. But apparently most people end up settling with NY and pay something. My friend was determined not to let that happen. I believe You have to spend at least 6 months and a day in FL to avoid NY income taxes.

Under section 605(b)(1) of the Tax Law, an individual who is not domiciled in New York is considered a resident for personal income tax purposes if that individual maintains a permanent place of abode in the state and spends more than 183 days of the taxable year in the state.

New York Taxpayer Part-Year Resident Domicile Change ALJ Statutory Resident NY

One can imagine a scenario where a part-year resident taxpayer maintains the legacy residence, or a summer home in the Hamptons, and triggers full-year statutory residence status inadvertently by returning for visits to the State during his/her non-resident period, an activity that was previously permissible.

What To Expect In A Residency Audit | New York Residency Audit Guide: Hodgson Russ LLP

Even if you spend more than 6 months + a day in Florida or traveling, and are registered as a Florida resident, NY and several other states may come after you based on the "near and dear" determination. This means if you are keeping your personal family stuff up in your NY residence, they consider that your home and residence. This includes family photos, trophies, collectables and other items of a personal nature. Also, if you belong to a country club or donate to local charities up there, they consider this as more evidence to hit you with residency taxes. You need to have a doctor and dentist in Florida, and all your billing and accounts in the Florida address. They don't want to see you leave if you are a big tax payer, and will look for everything "near and dear" to prove that you haven't left NY.

See the guide. Excerpt

HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT I WILL BE AUDITED?
Very likely. If you are a high-income taxpayer claiming a move into or out of New York, it’s a near certainty you will be audited. The Tax Department is sophisticated and aggressive. Consider some of the numbers:
The tax department has ten district offices located across the State (and in Chicago).
There are more than 300 auditors who focus on these
Over the past five years, the Tax Department has conducted over 15,000 of these
These audits have generated over $1 billion in revenue over this time
In short, there are a billion reasons why the New York Tax Department watches these issues carefully. If you claim a move from New York, expect to get audited.

Don't know anything about NY taxes, but if your home isn't homesteaded in NY, then you can homestead here in Florida, but you missed this years homestead exemption, as I believe you must have owned the property on January 1st and filed by the end of March. All you need to do is register to vote and and have a FL driving license and then apply for a homestead.
I know this will come as a shock to many, but you don't have to live here any amount of time. The 6 months and a day rumor is a falsehood. Source: The man who was responsible for getting Homesteading passed, Ken Wilkinson

The missing piece of the puzzle is how material are the taxes to the equation? Many don’t fight because the cost would be more than the tax and you get closure with the payment.

The 6 months and a day rule is for income tax purposes not for resident purposes there's a difference.

I would do anything I could do avoid paying taxes to the Empire State just on principle alone

Claim Florida As Your Residence For Taxes | Kiplinger

this should answer all your questions....

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/ta...for-taxes.html

this should answer all your questions....

If you bring liberal politics to the wonderful state of Florida.....that's a problem!

Yea just the people

Several people have suggested keeping detailed records of your whereabouts. How would you go about documenting to NY where you were on any particular day? We had to jump through hoops to prove to the state of Michigan and city of Muskegon that our son was not living and working in Michigan but just using us as a US mailing address while living and working in Australia. It finally took showing up at tax offices and throwing everything we had at them that he wasn't in Michigan. None of it was really "proof," but thankfully they accepted it. It doesn't sound like NY would be so accommodating.

For New York state taxes? There is no time frame for Florida. If your primary home is registered in Florida, then that's your primary home for federal taxes.

There are 2 residency tests in NY. See the attached link for a synopsis of the Ny audit process. You can also download the NY audit manual online.

What To Expect In A Residency Audit | New York Residency Audit Guide: Hodgson Russ LLP

6 months and a day is for income tax relief
 

The 6 months and a day rule applies to avoiding income taxes.

Sorry, I have to disagree. When it comes to property taxes, Florida treats non-residents as cash cows; that's how they keep taxes low for residents. A couple of years ago, after several years the Sumter County Property Appraiser finally re-appraised the market values of all of the houses in The Villages. Many properties had their market values raised by 15% or more. There are 2 values to be aware of when it come to property taxes: market value and assessed value. The millage rate is applied to the assessed value less the homestead exemption. For non-Florida residents, the assessed value is always equal to the appraised market value. However, there is a law that for Florida residents only, the assessed value can only increase per year by the lesser of the consumer price index or 3%. As a result, most of the Florida residents who have been living in The Villages for a while have assessed values that are tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars less than their market values. Non-residents immediately see an increase in appraised market value reflected in assessed value; for residents it can take years, decades, or never for the assessed value to catch up to market value. As a double whammy, the county seems to update market values every few years rather than every year - in a rising housing market this helps to insure the assessed values will never catch up to market values for Florida residents.

With the crazy jump in house prices in The Villages recently, non-Florida residents are in for a rude awakening with regard to property taxes the next time the house market values are updated by the counties; Florida residents on the other hand don't have much to fear.

Don't take my word for it though. Go to the Sumter County Property Appraiser website Record Search : Sumter County Property Appraiser and search for your property assessed value vs those of your neighbors and see how non-Florida residents are treated with regard to property taxes; only a fraction is attributable to the homestead exemption.

nah, the Yankees have too many in the loss column to give the BosSox any problems this year

:a040::a040::a040:

I bought a home in The Villages and it is my primary (and only home) in March. Is there a deadline when I need to file homestead exception? I have a FL drivers license now and FL tag on my vehicle

You must have owned the house by January 1st and then file before March 1 for the year you want the exemption to start.

Sumter County Property Appraiser - Joey Hooten - Bushnell, Florida - 352-569-6800

Wait...
Someone lived in Florida and Moved to New York???

Who would have thought?

Yes, State taxes.

I don't think there are any differences in the Federal tax rules based on which state you live. Of course you can deduct state and local taxes upto the SALT tax deduction limit, but that rule doesn't change based upon where you live. It's based on whether you pay the SALT taxes or not.

Homestead exemption
 

Is this 3%/yr assessed value limit for FLA residents in addition to the Homestead exemption? See Below. So if i become a FLA residents I get $50K reduction/exemption day 1?

Homestead exemption provides a tax exemption up to $50,000 for persons who are permanent residents of the State of Florida, who hold legal or equitable title to the real property, and who occupy the property as their permanent residence. The first $25,000 applies to all property taxes, including school district taxes.

Relocating from NY to back to Florida -
 

Thank you very much for your reply It has cleared up my misunderstanding.

I love NY and have lived here for the last 55 years after med school. We get a lot for our tax money. We spend a beautiful 6 months in our NY home and 6 months avoiding the snow in our lovely Villages home. One problem with FL is that I have never found an MD in Florida that could compare to the MDs/hospitals/health insurance in NY. When I was practicing, MDs that got kicked out of NY ran to Florida to practice. I think the large FL hospitals are coming of age and I trust Shands (and associated Villages/Leesburg hospitals) and other large city hospitals more every year.