Is the current "spiking" of Covis "cases" acceptable to anti vaxers?
 

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

First, flip flopping is very prejudicial. In my not so humble opinion, updating your position when new data is available is rational. Sadly in something like the pandemic of a never seen before virus can result in rapid changes in knowledge. Initial projections and advice is normally given based on previous similar viruses, with the caveats that they could be wrong. As time passes more information becomes available and projections and recommendations change. Then almost always the virus mutates and the experts have to start over. This can be very distressing to many people who are afraid and looking for answers.

The question, is the death rate acceptable is a hard question. And easier question is, is any preventable death acceptable, to which I would say, no. Even one preventable death is unacceptable. BUT. The problem is the second question, “at what cost.?” The cost can be economic, freedoms, potential future (long term) impacts, etc, etc, etc. Each of us have to come to a risk/reward assessment we are comfortable with.

Personally I think we are heading into a global economic collapse - depression or recession - that combined with continuing mutations will end up with governments around the world including the US, making isolation and vaccinations mandatory. The sad thing is there is every reason to believe we could have stopped this virus and it’s resulting variants if extreme measures had been taken earlier. But, that solution was unacceptable through out most of the world.

I hope I am wrong, for my children and grandchildren.

I suspect it is merely that the media likes to report, and we like to hear about, the most recent events. Deaths from car accidents and smoking are old news.

I agree.
Therefore(?) the deaths, maiming, disabling levels are acceptable-tolerable.

Not wearing a seat belt and in an accident, the result I may never be able to walk again...no vaccination could result in death....neither is acceptable to me.

The most common injury from not wearing a seat belt is traumatic brain injury, it can lead to not being able to walk, or talk, or remember things, or feed yourself. I would take death over that. But each to their own poison.

As I said, to me any preventable death is too many.

Just in case clarification post is to compare the virus to other causes of death/disabilities that are around us every day....with significant magnitude.....is it the more current harm is more news worthy (or more agenda worthy??!!).

It's horrifying to see this weasel on television.

Trying to get yet another thread closed due to your political babbling????

The difference is that "not wearing seatbelts" isn't contagious. You not wearing a seatbelt is not going to hurt me, if you are in an accident. Indoor smoking is mostly banned in most parts of the country outside the privacy of your own home or vehicle. It's also banned in many outdoor public venues, parks and recreational areas nationwide. But I won't become a smoker just because you are a smoker. Smoking isn't contagious.

COVID is contagious, and you don't have to be "doing" anything to transmit it. Just get physically close enough to someone and breathe in their general direction, and if it's "their turn" to catch it, you will transmit it to them.

EXPLAIN POLITICAL.

post is on subject.

Post is adding to the discussion, UNLESS we are expected to bury facts that make certain uncomfortable, which seems to be the case every time this attack is made.

If TOTV is to be a “megaphone” for only things you like, then let’s insure we change the rules and its name.

If you do not want to hear FACTS then do not get involved in threads.

Looks like both sides are here and hurling insults. Yup, thread is doomed.

While I agree with your post, the last line is inflammatory. I expect both sides believe that they have the facts. If we are to get past this point in history, both sides need to try.

Explain it---like you don't already know:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OK, when you post phrases related to "conservative gatherings" and "responses at CPAC" you have turned a thread about deaths from COVID instantly political. When you make veiled references to "doing more earlier" you make it political, just not as obvious as when you name the former POTUS. I can make many more "factual" posts about how the other side is ruining our country, but they would be political as well

Any further questions?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

We constantly hear the media refer to "Cases", but never hear how the "Cases" are defined. I believe that when "Cases" are mentioned it means a positive test, but no
mention as to what the severity factor is, just that we should be terrified of "Cases".
I know quite a few folks that are listed as "Cases" who have had Covid, and totally
recovered with having had relatively minor symptoms. Yes, I also know of others that have been really sick from Covid.
My point is that simply listing "Cases" just isn't the complete story, but keeping everyone
terrified seems to be the ongoing media narrative.

Correct. That's why hospitalizations, and deaths in the absence of significant comorbidities is a much better metric to follow.

First do you know how many threats I get on here claiming I am being political. It is insane.

I never post anything remotely political without a back up quoted article or two or a link to a video. Although those who attack me each day very seldom supply any.
backup

I posted this because as we watch a very organized movement against vaccination ( I did not post the Representive using the anti drug chant “just say no” in referring to the vaccine.

The OP made good points, but I differ in blaming the world should anything happen. We HAD the vaccine....easily available. The rest of the world is not in that position.

How can there be a forum where only certain “facts” are allowed.

I am not the political one.....this was made political by our own leaders. Since day one.

Sorry if I get brusque, but getting tired of self appointed critics, WITHOUT ANY FACTS TO DISPUTE, calling every post political. We are discussing Covid vaccinations, and lack of participation, and there is no doubt of the OPEN resistance along political lines.

First, you have every right to begin a thread on anything.

If you find something I said to be untrue, challenge and make a case.

I am not responsible for who makes it political, yet you try to lay it at my feet.

Sometimes, there are truths that fit that are uncomfortable, and adults know it. If many posts on here go unchallenged in certain subjects, it simply is a exercise in passing on misinformation and hate.

Perhaps that is what you want, but in reading your posts, I think you are smarter than that. You never see me post in areas that I know nothing about. I very seldom question you or others on medical areas, but when you, or anyone begins to either tell flagrant lies, enable those who do, or openly ignore facts to suit your narrative,,,,well

Oh, and my post was a response to another, and was exactly on the same subject, except I am not placing total blame on non Americans....it just isn’t so.

We had or have control. It is our call.

This is different than medical reasons for no shot....it is pure politics, not by me.

I am not saying whether or not your "facts" are true, nor am saying I agree or disagree with your statements. I am merely pointing out that many threads are closed by the moderators due to the introduction of politics, and, correct me if you think I am wrong since I didn't count, you are the leading contender in that field. You tend to disguise your political opinion as "facts", such as this could have been handled better and sooner if not for XXXX. That is an opinion, not a fact, and I don't know if that is true any more than you do. Like they said in "The Godfather", this is business, not personal:1rotfl:

I am never sure what side I am on, but I do agree with this statement.

Some just have a bubbling need to vent anger. Many of us are very tired of it. Same old, same old, but sometimes the poster switches sides....and names.

C'mon Son!
The post was political click bait from the off.

Please provide your definition of “spiking” because it can’t possibly coincide with the generally accepted definition. I just looked at the latest Covid new case graph, updated yesterday, and the word spike certainly wouldn’t be an accurate description.

Covid-19 vaccines have saved nearly 280,000 lives in the US so far.

The unvacinated are varient factories infecting children and those who can not be vaccinated.

There are non mRNA vaccines.

The there's this...

Covid deaths in U.S. hit lowest level in 10 months

Just want to address the implications and accusations.

My user name is Bucco. It is my only user name....no others. I did have another...Rags123, which was suggested to me way back by talkhost. Not used since my wife used it to PM someone, and was attacked very “loudly” about guess what...politics.
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I am, as of 2016 an independent, after over 50 years as a working member of GOP. My views have always been issue driven, not by party, thus you may think about “switching sides”, but trust me I never have looked back except in sadness. I will speak my true feelings should I choose to post. I will be honest, and as so, can also accept honesty.
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Not sure why disagreeing about lying or spreading false conspiracies, or anything anti American is, to you, venting anger. I have served my country in various ways for 65 of my 82 years. Yes, I am sensitive to the violence on Jan 6, because I worked there and roamed those halls. That is a sacred building, at least to me.
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I simply respond to a post, and as normal am confronted not with a post disagreeing with my post, but aimed at me. The issue is gone, and the hatred surfaces. If you have another opinion please share. Just discuss the issue and stop with the games played. Not impressed or intimidated.
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But do not speak to me about “bubbling” anger.

I will always speak out against lies, commission or omission. I start out assuming everyone is like that, then I am confronted with this “anger”. This same charge has been made, always on the same thing.....I allowed a fact you just were uncomfortable with.
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This was not “political click bat”. BTK started a good thread about the lack of vaccinations. He alluded to non Americans being the reason. I tool exception to that, using just a few recent statements to make my point.

NOBODY has posted disagreement with what I said. Just, as said here “same led same old” while totally ignoring the thread subject. And calling me out personally for making this political. I was at no rallies.....I did not exhort people to not get a vaccine.....I did not mock anyone, as this is important.

So, please....at least be honest with your posts. Stop making things up, and if you wish to converse, do so ON WHATEVER THE SUBJECT OF THE POST YOU RESPOND TO.

There are some who enjoy, NOT conversation, but concentrated attacks.

I am not the one to be angry at.....try facing truth about who leads the attacks on truth. Try discussing the content, and stop coming after the person who is sharing the truth, although it may be uncomfortable for you to hear.

Truth, I speak of. If my opinion, I say that. To say what I posted here today is not true.....well, a problem then exists that only you can resolve,

It's actually quite easy to discuss these topics without injecting politics into the argument...

Well, it is for most people...

You know better than I deaths lag hospitalizations by several months.

Since there is a new warning regarding a higher incidence of Guillain Barre cases in recipients of Johnson & Johnson vaccine, they’re probably feeling good about their decision.

Most of the people who are declining vaccination worked throughout the pandemic, some people have reactions, many have already had covid, including an eighty five year old man who recovered completely with no issues even though he is diabetic and has had a stroke previously. He’s back to work on the farm which his son operates.

Golfing Eagles has it right, co-morbidity factors need to be presented with the death rate numbers. Out of all the people I know who contracted covid, two died. One was an eighty year old woman with severe heart disease and the other was terminal. I’ve been vaccinated but we need to get off the backs of those who elect not to receive the shots. Influenza can be very deadly too for the compromised population and we don’t insist everyone get that shot.

Several "months"? No, days or a few weeks? Sure, I'll give you that...

Plus, thus article is from May. They state 600 deaths/day...

Recent numbers are in the low 200's...

Funny, I don't recall ANYONE ever saying you should be terrified. Could you provide a link?

Maybe you mean rightfully concerned? Maybe they said we should take precautions? Maybe they mentioned if we don't take precautions a half-million people could die?

But terrified, I am not terrified, and I don't recall ever hearing that term from anyone - other than people that attempt to p[lay down the pandemmic.

I completely understand your post and agree with it. I also get numerous complaints and insults, normally from people that make the thread political, because by god they have the right to say anything they want to.

But, I still think we need to be the ones to try to tone down the discussion. "They" obviously are only interested in confrontational discusssions.

"They"...:1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

I find myself straddling the fence - sadly - and often agree with conservative comments about the economy and other topics, and often agreeing with liberals about social issues.

I would very much like to be able to carry on adult conversations with people here that disagree with me (there have been a couple, and it was VERy refreshing).

Yup, same old same old. Very few seem to be interested in discussion, most just want to toss out the current set of dog whistles.

I am SO thankful you are on here, always a voice a reason.

The actual warning: "While the FDA said it had not established the vaccine could cause the syndrome, it noted an increase in reports of the sometimes paralyzing condition."

My "They" was everyone but he and me, not a side. Both sides are almost completely confrontational and both sides need to be called out. I agree with them on most issues it seems, but I called them out.

So, I am sorry, I was not clear, in that post, my "They" meant everyone that is constantly confrontational.

Yup, exactly. My understanding (I spend 2 hours round trip to the VA listening to news reports today - yuck) is there have been around 100 cases out of x million doses, and of those 100 cases they do not KNOW how many if any were caused by the vaccine - they belive some were, but so far, there are just too few to be certain.

Depends which state you’re looking at. Missouri was having a big spike last week, I believe.

Yes, because two and two don’t always make four.:ohdear: ...increase in reports of those receiving Johnson and Johnson vaccine...

You’re concerned? Weren’t you vaccinated? Why worry if it’s sure-fire protection?

Around and around...

I am concerned because if we don't reach herd immunity things can get worse - as if they are not bad enough.

It amazes me how few people seem to care about their fellow Americans.