Property Survey Dispute
 

Hi, I am new homeowner in the historic side of villages. I bought a house that was built 4 years ago.

Yesterday the man who owned property next door came over to tell me my survey stakes were wrong and he owned the land. He informed me he pulled them out and removed my flags for my dog fence. Went on to tell me Lake county called him to say when house was built the villages made a mistake on property line and he owned the property..( WTH).

I looked up on county site for info and found nothing. I just paid for a survey 3 months ago which included maps.

What can I do? I’m ****ed he took my stakes and destroyed my flags. Help!

Call the cops.

Have you called the survey company to verify the accuracy of their survey?

He had absolutely no right to pull up your survey stakes.
Sounds like he’s going to be a joy to live next door to. :ohdear:

Ditto post #2. Call the police. He stole your property.

“ This is covered specifically by statute in Florida. I have set forth the applicable statutes below:

177.121 Misdemeanor to molest monument or deface or destroy map or plat.—It is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, for any person to molest any monuments established according to this part or to deface or destroy any map or plat placed on public record.

775.083 Fines.—
(1) A person who has been convicted of an offense other than a capital felony may be sentenced to pay a fine in addition to any punishment described in s. 775.082; when specifically authorized by statute, he or she may be sentenced to pay a fine in lieu of any punishment described in s. 775.082. A person who has been convicted of a noncriminal violation may be sentenced to pay a fine. Fines for designated crimes and for noncriminal violations shall not exceed:

(e) $500, when the conviction is of a misdemeanor of the second degree or a noncriminal violation.”

Hopefully he didn't destroy the wire for the invisible fence

It sounds like he didn't say anything to you prior to pulling up the survey stakes. If that's the case he is really is a jerk and deserves to be charged. Not sure what to say about the survey. Does the survey have legal status? Is the company that did it culpable for any damages if it's wrong? I should think the county would have some information on this.
Hope someone can give you some accurate answers. Hope you don't need an attorney but it might come to that.

Dear OP, this does not bode well for future neighborliness. I’d find out more about who this person is from the other neighbors. If this person is liked in general I’d react differently than if they are known to be a jerk. I find counting on my neighbors in emergency or just for fun makes life more enriched.

When I came back from my trip I found that my neighbor was using the grass by my house for his plants, burning my grass out. I mentioned it to him that I was concerned about my grass. He took his pots of plants and threw them out. He was trying to use the shade on my side to shelter his plants.

A week later he saw I was having trouble bagging my yard waste and he brought his bag holder over for me to use as long as I wanted.
Hubby mentioned in passing he’d like to learn pickle ball, neighbor lent him his racket. Even took him to the court one morning and introduced him to the game.

I wish I could take back asking him to move a few pots from my grass. They were out of the way, I was being petty. Now I’m thinking what can I do for my neighbor?

In conclusion, the person might be more important than the survey line. If the person is usually a jerk, this might not be the home you really want in the long run.

When you bought the house, you should have paid a fee for title insurance. The title company reviewed and approved the legal description of your parcel. The legal description specifies the boundaries of your parcel. The surveyors used this description to place the stakes prior to your closing.

You should contact the title company because they signed off on the legal description. Ultimately, I'm guessing you may also need an attorney.

Get lawyer. He should of disputed the problem it any when the house was built. IMO he’s just being bully, I would get sheriff involved using the showing surveys maps and press charges. No results, let lawyer do his job. And if developers was at fault when house was built sue them.

Between survey and title work, there’s a legal description of the property. The Villages wouldn’t just make a mistake on the property description. Gather facts (talk to county, get survey, get title, etc). May need an attorney

Sounds like you are in for a lifetime of trouble with that neighbor....good luck.

If you paid for a survey, the surveyor should stand behind his work. I would notify the survey company that the survey has been disputed and they need to recheck it for accuracy, and provide you with a plat that clearly shows where the property line is, including dimensions from the house or other landmarks. The surveyor is licensed by the state and does not want a complaint against them. If the survey is correct, then you can construct whatever you want on your property.

first, i would resurvey the lot and make sure im in the right . than sue him for all cost.

My two cents worth for free. I would call the villages. They have some truly skilled people who can hopefully avoid problems. An attorney, may well make it worse.

You can easily get a copy of the survey if, you do not have one. From the post, right now it is your neighbors OPINION.

Once things start to go bad, it is hard but not impossible to turn them around. The original post. Of course we only get one side of every story. Usually there are at least two sides to every story. Neighbor removing the flags? First of all they are not permanent. Unlike perhaps wooden markers they do no damage. The dog and an invisible fence, I would get this resolved before you leave your dog out. I am NOT an attorney. We do have leash laws. I do not know if an invisible fence fills that requirement.

The OP didn't say it was an invisible fence.

Maybe a way to salvage the relationship is to ask him to hire his own survey company and if your survey was wrong you will pay half his cost. Then you will probably have to offer to pay all the cost if your company was wrong. If it turns out you were wrong I would try and get a refund from your survey company.
The two of you should try and put back the markers. The agreement should be if the surveys are off by say a foot. Not an inch or two.
I would also give the survey paper work to the new company and tell them your problem and to confirm or dispute your survey in writing.
In short try and get the survey companies to answer the question and both of your be on the side of getting it correct.
Good luck

Further thoughts,"bought a house that was built 4 years ago." Perhaps, the people who bought it new decided to move due to issues with the neighbor.

The devil is in the details. The op does not say the neighbor is a Villager. Surely, people around the villages are not all pleased with the villages intruding on what was.

You are such a nice and honest person. I find as I get older sometimes things that bother me shouldn’t. I try to bite my tongue, and if successful, am later glad I did. We’re constantly learning about ourselves I guess. Sorry to derail from the topic.

OP, I’m sorry this happened and hope you get it resolved soon. It takes a lot of guts to pull up someone’s survey stakes. Have you considered calling the Sheriff’s office for advice. Or maybe the Property Appraiser?

Seems you are right. Another poster said it was an invisable fence. If, it is a wooden, plastic fence I assume they need a permit. As stated I am not an attorney. There are rules for everything. I expect if it is a physical fence it needs to be inside of the property line and the fence owner must maintain both sides of the fence. If, it has a good side and a back side, the good side needs to be what the neighbor sees.

I think all agree it sounds like trouble.

We've not met the neighbor. Going by original post it does not seem a reasonable solution is possible.

Sadly amusing personal experience through business, I met a guy who lives in Germany. He is married to some duchess and they live in an ancient castle located on a huge property. He and his neighbor are fighting over a tree that has been there for well over 100 years. He told me that under German law he needs like another 20 years and then it will be grandfathered as OK.

Moral, it is not just here. Finding a solution with no antagonism is, or should be the goal. It is difficult to achieve. Too often it is impossible.

Having a paper copy of a survey is pretty useless. What the OP needs are survey stakes from a NEW survey. Good luck with that.. I've called every land surveyor and the villages to try and do same for my property. The original surveyor is too busy as are all others .. If anyone knows a bona fide surveyor pls post

Yes invisible fence just installed and was training the dogs. That’s why flags

Wonderful story! Thanks for sharing.

Take You original survey to the county and have them verify it's accuracy. Then show the neighbor the counties approval and he should pay for a surveyor to put posts back in. If your original survey was correct.

He's lost his faculties! Sounds like the Alzheimer's

Perhaps a more neighborly approach would be more helpful than some of the other posts. Go over, tell him you are sorry about this and are working to discover how The Villages could have made a mistake...would he like to participate in this discovery process. Then you make the appointments with the Surveyor to discuss the differences...call Lake County who can probably send someone out. This takes the You vs. Him out of the equation. Otherwise, you'll end up warring for the rest of your (or his) time. It's also possible that you have a neighbor who has some level of dementia emerging, so he really believes that the land is his. De-escalating the tension between the two of you is a win-win while the process plays out.

IMO, the first thing to do is to decide if you want to even try to have a cordial and amicable relationship with your next door neighbor who did this. If you do, then have a conversation with him about his concern, and your concern, and see if this is even an achievable goal. He may just be a combative SOB, and nothing you can do will make him a pleasant neighbor. In which case you are screwed in that regard, but not necessarily screwed in regard to where the property line goes.

If he wants to try to have a nice relationship with his neighbor, which I think is doubtful since he pulled the stakes without a conversation, I'm sure the two of you can find a way to verify the true boundary line.
If, he is, as we suspect, just a jerk, you'll have to verify the line yourself, replant the stakes, and tell him if he touches them again you'll call the cops on him and charge him with all of the appropriate charges.

He sounds like a crackpot to me. "The Villages called me and told me they made a mistake on the survey"....oh yeah...I'm sure they did. Happens all the time.

I hadn't thought of that, but that's a reasonable possibility isn't it?
That won't make it any easier on the OP to be living next door to him, but maybe provide a bit of understanding I suppose.

We have a neighbor just like yours. We had a surveyor do a special surveyor for our one side bordering the neighbor. Found their fence posts were on our property. Only problem is they refuse to believe it and court is the only option. Unfortunately we got an attorney to go to Court, he required a $5,000 non-refundable retainer, then he tells us that in Florida a legal, certified survey is not acceptable in a Florida court without a written explanation attached to the survey AND the surveyor must agree to appear in Court to testify to the accuracy of the survey. We got nothing, not a letter to offending neighbor, NOTHING but that info for $5,000 and if we wanted to go any further he wanted more money. It is the most ridiculous law for a Court to not accept a certified survey. It would be worth it to have a survey done of that property line in dispute and tell whoever you get to attach the written explanation of areas in question as to whether or not that area in question is your property or that horrible neighbors. Odds are it's your property but good luck.........2 1/2 years of us dealing with the same issues and constant harassment acts by our neighbor and no end in sight unless one of us move or we can find tons of $$$ to go to Court. Police are a waste.........will do nothing even though they have stolen well over 12 survey flags we put out showing our property line.

All the suggestions are interesting, but the two most important are, you should have title insurance. The title insurance company is liable for any discrepancies. The developers are not your problem, if the developers made a mistake, that is up to the title insurance company to deal with.

Assuming you have title insurance (I think it is legally required to purchase real-estate in Florida) that is who you contact first.

Second, if he took something that is yours and is refusing to return it, then call the sheriff or police, and/or an attorney - although I expect the value of the stuff you say he took will only qualify for small claims court. I am not familiar with the law enough to say if there was a criminal violation - that is for the police to say.

And finally, I would be looking for a new home in any case. Life is too short to deal with a bully neighbor.

[I wish I could take back asking him to move a few pots from my grass. They were out of the way, I was being petty. Now I’m thinking what can I do for my neighbor]

Your neighbor sounds like a gem! Go by him a plant and let him use your shade 🌺 the grass will grow back. Happy neighboring😊

Same thing happened to us when we moved here. It was the neighbor behind us and she was a piece of work. She disputed the property line and eventually called The Villages. Someone came out and told her politely she was full of poop. They used the sprinkler system to show her where the property line was. That's obviously not a legal determination of your property line but it might give you a rough idea where the line is. There also might be some type of marking on the curb that could help you.

Ultimately, it's up to him to prove you're on his property. It's probably a good idea as several have mentioned to approach him and see why he thinks TV screwed up. Unless he turns out to be reasonable, I wouldn't argue with him. Just try to get his version so you can tell a lawyer or surveyor where he's coming from.

Have you reached out to your realtor? He/she might have insight as to what you should try and do from here.

Regarding title company
 

Unfortunately, this is incorrect advice. Title insurance policies except from coverage matters relating to surveys. We are fortunate here that it is generally customary to have a survey completed on each parcel (at least if there is ever financing involved). Contact the surveyor for help is my suggestion.

"Florida's friendliest home town"
He must be from the NE.

sounds like a jerk. sue him if he encroaches

It all sounds infuriating. In the interest of building a relationship or getting an understanding of your neighbor maybe a simple offering of a small gift would soften him into having a conversation while he’s not upset. Does he have his survey that makes him think the property line is his? See if you can find out what will make this right for him if the surveyor is indeed correct. Your survey company may be open to come back as a courtesy to you and double check that line.
Sorry you’re having to go through this. It’s maddening. Good luck. 🍀

Not exactly. A Lenders Policy is generally required by the lender if you have a mortgage. An Owner's policy is not required.

Not so. Title insurance is not required for the property owner. An owner's policy is optional, but a lender's policy is typically required if there is a mortgage on the property. This will be a requirement set forth by the lender, not by statute.

Also, a title policy merely warranties clear title to the property involved. It does not warrant the veracity of an individual survey.