Golf Pace of Play. Keep up, or Time Par
 

On another thread it was mentioned that TV Championship courses are no longer using time sheets to enforce pace of play, but rather relying on the old "keep up with the group in front of you". BTW, this "fact" was disputed by another poster who works at another Championship course.

I hope they stick with the time sheets. I find it much more relaxing to have a hard and fast line, rather than a subjective measure such as "keep up with the group in front". What if the group in front is a group of "rabbits" who get their jollies bragging about playing in "3 hours and 15 minutes!..Yay for us", but don't putt out, don't fix punch marks, rake bunkers, or resand their divots? Or a threesome? Why should they be the dictators of what is a proper pace?

I have seldom had to play behind anyone who can't keep pace with the clock. It happens, but not often. I'd rather relax and enjoy my round than have to worry about how fast the group in front, or the group behind feel they want to play.

pace of play.....especially in retirement...is over rated!!!!
IMHO.

Keep up with the group in front.

Regardless of how fast they play?
What if they are a 3-some?
What if they play in 3 hours and 15 minutes? Why do I have to play that fast?

Why is their chosen pace the law for everyone who follows?

Always pace of play. As long as players are on time, even if there is a free hole ahead we don't, can't push. That comes from the head Pro.

I assume by your statement, "Always pace of play", you mean the clock is what determines the pace, not the speed of the group in front. Am I correct?

What head pro are you referring to? Someone you work for here in TV, or some head pro somewhere else?

Here's a case in point: I was playing at Pelican one day. I went there by myself, and was put with 3 other players, all of whom were walking. I was not because I was recovering from a leg injury.
We had a threesome in front, and a threesome behind, all in carts. We were 5 minutes ahead of the time par on the sheet.
On every shot, the 3 behind us were "tea potting" (if you stand with one hand on your hip, and the other holding the club, you sort of look like a tea pot from a distance) us, looking impatient. Eventually the ambassador comes up and tells the two ladies who were walking in my group to speed it up, we had a hole open in front of us. The ladies were visibly upset by this.
I assured them they were, and we were, in fact, fine, being at least 5 minutes ahead of the time par, while walking. Since I had a cart I rode over to the ambassador who was talking to the 3 some behind us. They had in fact complained about our pace.
I explained the situation, and the time par. The ambassador looked at his sheet, explained that I was right, and apologized to me. I gently explained that he needn't apologize to me, but he should apologize to the two ladies he upset. He graciously did so.
I think the 3 guys behind me were not pleased. Too bad. It sucks sometimes to learn that you don't own the world.

Yes correct, on the champ courses
Yes, the head pro at the champ course I work at

I absolutely love that term, never heard it before and usually I call it "The Villages Pose"

As an adjunct to your story, I was playing on a champ course with my friend's son, who is a professional at a club in Boca, 27 years old and hits his drives 330+. There was just the two of us behind a foursome, and we were right behind them waiting on every shot. Of course, due to his length, he had to let the group ahead get a little further away than the rest of us even though he was playing the black tees. The group behind us didn't care for that, we occasionally heard a "hit the ball" from them. Apparently they didn't care about the safety of those ahead of us. When we were putting , the group ahead was still on the next tee every hole, but we could look back and see the group behind all "tea potting". So about the 5th time, the two of us turned around, put our hand on one hip, leaned on our putters and stared back at them for about 2-3 minutes. They must have gotten the hint since they didn't do it again.

Or if the group or two in front of you leave the course early and the ambassador rolls by and tells you you're playing too slow. Uhh. No buddy. check your time sheet. We are not the group timed 18 minutes before us.:1rotfl:

love it! I played with a really long hitter and the same thing happened. He invited the group behind us to switch places with us, and he'd be happy to hit into them all day. They did not accept the invitation.

Maybe that 3 some should find another friend? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

Why haven't you just called the golf shop?????

and tell them what?

I’ve spent 20 years working in golf and traveled the country visiting golf courses. Two things I have learned.

1. No golfer ever thinks they are slow.
2. Nearly every golfer is slow.

Well, if you think about #2 a bit, you might come to the conclusion that if nearly "every" golfer is slow, the standard for what is slow is off quilter. We can't all be above average, but we can't all be below average either.
Which is why a "time par" is valuable. "Fast" and "Slow" are relative terms. A time par sheet is not subjective. You are ether "on time" or you are not.
I've never been an ambassador, but I would think it would make their job easier. No need to be nasty, just informative.

Golf should be enjoyable, even bad golf.

I rather enjoy having all those nice people behind me waving and cheering me on!:icon_wink:

It continues to evolve sadly. The norm has gone from 4 to 4.5. Simple to play ready golf but very few do. Instead drive to a ball with partner. Wait until hit and then go to next ball. Instead of drive to first and drop off on way to second. There is a reason golf speeds picked up dramatically with single riders.

On average when our foursome were pretty much single riders with the exception of a married couple playing we actually timed out 8 to 11 minutes faster a round on the executive courses. Less opportunity to chit chat and you could concentrate on what you were to do on your next shot.

for most of us it is not a timed event......

I agree! I have a lot of fans back there who seem to think I'm #1!!!

I'm not suggesting that the pace on the time par sheet should be 4.5 hours, necessarily. Certainly not for a private club where 99% of the players know the course.
However, for a public facility, with lots of players who may not know the course, you have to add a bit of time, I think.
Also, if the greens are cut fast, and the pins in slopey positions, hey, you have to expect a lot of 3, and maybe 4 putts. That slows things down. I don't think it's right to do that and expect players who have paid a greens fee to give up after two or three putts. If you set up the course that way, you have to expect things will be slow.
The object of the game is to PUT THE BALL INTO THE HOLE. If you make it really hard to do that, it's going to take longer.
People who give putts, and take putts, have no standing to complain about slow play. They aren't really playing the game, are they?
Sometimes people need to remember the "object" of the game is to put the ball into the hole. It is not a race.
The "purpose" of the game, for most of us, is to have an enjoyable, and social time.
Having said all of that, there is a time when one should just "pick it up"...

The time par sheet should be a good guide to that point.
You know, a course could make it's time par 3:45. Post it, advertise it, and then enforce it. Then the rabbits would have a place they could play, and they'd have a legitimate gripe when players take 4 hours.
I've never seen that though. Public facilities don't want to alienate potential customers, but they might do well with enough fast players being attracted to the place.

Easier said than done. It’s easy to say enforce it until you tell someone they are behind (remember rule #1������) and ask them to pick up the pace or move to the next hole.

Slow play is literally the most selfish act on the golf course. Those who say I’m out there to enjoy myself you are right. But if someone can’t enjoy themselves in the proper pace, then they either need to let groups through or be a bit more ready.

It is close to impossible to police anymore with the righteousness that exists. Sorry for the ranting and when I was down in TV it honestly wasn’t that bad for my visit but as the game has grown this year the times are getting out of control. In some areas of the country expecting to finish 9 holes in less than 3 hours is a miracle.

Single carts are the future and with that will come an additional expense for courses. They will try to pass that on, but more tee times during the day due to faster rounds should pick up most of the cost…

I can think of at least 3 reasons for the increasingly slow pace:
1. Not being "ready"...i.e. gabbing when one should be preparing, and playing
2. Courses increasingly relying on fast greens, and slopey greens to "toughen" the course up as equipment has made the distances less daunting
3. hackers emulating the pros' pre shot routines.

Which of those do you think has the biggest impact on slowing recreational golf down. Or do you see some other issues as well?

It’s 1 and 3 but there are many many others. Continuously searching for lost balls. I don’t think fast greens have as much of an impact, as others think. 8 minute tee time separations. I could go on and on, but it really comes down to being ready when it’s your turn, rather than needing to drive to your ball or find a club or take your 7 waggles snd 3 practice swings, etc. don’t forget glove off and on 15 times a hole and Headcovers on and off 3-4 times per hole. The entire thing adds up. It’s a shame too, because very few do it out of ill intent.

But think about this. If you take just 30 seconds before each shot to align, practice swing, etc and 50 strokes per round (not counting putting which is even slower), that’s an additional 25 minutes to your time.

Timed pacr
 

You are spot on. A timed pace is the only pace that makes sense and is also “fair”.

First of all, there are ONLY SLOW greens in The Villages, so take #2 off the list.
#1 is part of it, but by far#3 is the main cause-----5 practice swings, 2 minutes to line up a putt, etc.
And of course my favorite-----people parking 30 yards away from their ball, taking 5 practice swings, then going back to their cart (at a snails pace) to get another club, then 5 more practice swings.......

I wasn't intending to confine the discussion to just the Villages golf, but golf in general. I will say that we played Lopez at least twice last winter when the greens were fast enough that if you were above the hole, you weren't going to stop some of those putts anywhere but in the cup, or off the green. But that's rare. Play was very slow those days, BTW, while people 4 putted.

And all those rule changes they made to speed up play...

Like what?