Unfair Prosecution
 

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

News reports are not necessarily to be taken at face value , but ones that I have seen suggest its more than him being their son, that things they did and did not do come into play, it will of course be very interesting to see how the different media outlets spin this.

They are innocent until proven guilty, they will have their day in court.

Parents called to school & they refused to take him home, knowing he purchased (& had) a gun. Then the parents were on the run. :ohdear:

Report I read said dad bought the gun, kid took it from unlocked drawer.
Who knows?:shrug:

yeah, i saw that too, but just for a minute, do you think the school had the DUTY to remove him without parental approval? most may say no, but looking @ what the kid wrote & pix he drew, the school itself had the responsibility to remove him without parental approval. they call the cops in most cases you hear about-why not here?

With a tread lightly approach to far too many issues these days, signs of possible problems are ignored for fear of a negative response.

See something say something has unfortunately become offensive in too many instances.....in my opinion.

Think there will be a lot of butt covering and obfuscation before this case gets to trial.
Seems quite a few people dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

but, people did see something and said something. caught the kid looking up ammo on his phone--calls and emails to parents got no answer. mother texted son, lol don't get caught. teacher sees note and takes photo...parents called in and won't take kid home. multiple social media where parents and child refer to it as the child's Christmas present. parents knew gun wasn't in a secure location. the school should have insisted the child be taken for psych eval immediately. so that's on them. but in this case, the evidence clearly supports parents culpability and the fact that they fled and hid only reinforces that. you can play the "what about" game all day regarding murders in Chicago, etc. but in this case there's a digital footprint of their indifference to his problems and access to a gun. and spare me the two family crap. both parents arrested for DUI, father has child support action against him, recently fired from job, wife also wrote bad checks--yeah great "2 parent" family

The culprit of the day!!

It was an early birthday present to the son

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that a responsible owner of a gun would accept the responsibility of keeping the weapon safe and secure from unauthorized use.
I don't know if the charges against the parents will hold up, but I hope they do and that it sets an example for all gun owners (I know most already do this with gun safes or trigger locks, etc.).

On its face it may seem unfair, but think about what its long term benefits might be. We as a society have no idea how to stop these kids from shooting up their schools. Maybe if we charge and severely punish some parents, some future shooters might think twice before they put their parents in severe legal jeopardy. Just a thought.

I don't care if he was raised by iguanas, I don't care if his parents are the head of the local church or have a history of being Nazi death camp guards. The only thing that matters is did those accused of this crime commit this crime. Period.

If these parents had any reason to believe that the gun they apparently thought was a great Christmas gift for their child would present a risk to himself or his community, they had an obligation to all of us to lock it away. The information presented by the cops, who I do not believe tell the truth far too often [see testilying] is that these two adults had reason to believe that their child was dangerous and failed to act. If I know my auto brakes are failing and let you drive my car and you hit a pedestrian because the brakes failed, I am partly or even mostly to blame. I put an instrument of destruction in your hands that you could not reasonably and safely operate.

My problem is with the prosecution of a 15 year old as an adult. He is not an adult. His brain and reasoning are not fully formed. He is clearly at this time a dangerous person but he is Not an adult. We don't let him drive as we recognize his judgment to handle a car is not there yet. We don't let him vote, we don't let him join the army, he cannot sign a contract or agree to have sex with his minister as he is not old enough to be responsible in his decisions. But here, we as a society demand that his failure to use adult judgment be fully punished in the same way as an actual adult would be punished. I have a problem with that.

Brain isn't fully developed until 25.........If we wait until age 25, that's a lot of 18, 20, 22 year old child criminals. :ohdear:

Lots of 15 year olds are driving.

I don’t know what will happen with the charges against the parents , but if it makes one family get rid of a gun or make it more secure it’s a good thing .The problem I have is what makes a two parent family not living in a big city better then others who grew up in a one parent family living in a big city, I can’t even begin to think what the poster means , OH wait a minute I CAN .

If there were any balls dropped regarding this incident, then they were dropped by the parents.

My siblings and I were raised around guns. Dad Was a collector and had over 60, Handguns and long guns, and they all worked. None were ever locked up. But we were taught from an early age how to respect and handle firearms, along with the responsibility that operating a firearm entailed. One of the few times I recall him being angry at me was when he saw me crossing the fence with a loaded rifle and without taking the cartridge out of the chamber. I was maybe 12 years old at the time, but the lesson stayed with me.

But it wasn't just guns. Our parents made sure that we understood our responsibilities no matter what we undertook. We were taught early on that actions have consequences, and that we should not only know what those consequences were but to accept responsibility for our actions. We were by no means unique: living in rural northeastern meant that all the people who lived there saw both guns and responsibilities in the same manner. Guns were a tool like any other tool, the same as an ax, a chainsaw, or any tool that if used carelessly could turn around and bite you, and deserved to be respected and handled appropriately.

This obviously did not happen in the case of this teenager. His parents, by their actions regarding this handgun, totally shirked their responsibility as a parent of this kid. The kid will pay the price, and he should. But my guess is that this incident was just the tip of an iceberg; a history of faulty parenting that probably went back to the time that he was a toddler.

Which means - she knew he was planning on doing it. Otherwise there would've been no reason for her to think of sending him a text telling him not to.

Thank you, Bonnevie, for saving me time by filling in the blanks about the mother’s texts and social media posts, etc. (I was getting ready to respond to the OP with the same info you provided.)

I hope those who think these parents are being unjustly treated will look beyond what seems to be only partial information they are seeing and hearing.

The mother’s behavior — so clearly revealed in her own words — was vile beyond comprehension.

There are many parents who destroy their own children and our society reaps what those parents sow. This time there was a trail on social media.

I was teaching secondary ed when the news of Columbine hit. I immediately looked at my area and tried to assess what I would try to do to keep my students safe if shots rang out. (I actually made a plan in my head where it stayed for the many years I had remaining before retirement. I never had to find out how good my plan would have been — but I never forgot about it.)

And my guess is that we have a country full of teachers — and former teachers — who want to see these parents brought to trial. If that happens, at the very least, maybe attention to parent responsibility, in general, will get a higher profile — for maybe 15 minutes.

I am sadly not surprised by what I am seeing on TOTV from posters defending the parents who made a monster out of an innocent baby who came into their lives 15 years ago.

A “married, two-parent family” ??? I guess that’s the latest buzz being programmed. Gimme a break. These two sure ain’t no Ozzie and Harriet. And I know a euphemism when I see one.

Boomer

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.

While there are many instances in the past where the parents should have been charged, we have to start some time. Given all of the school shootings over the past 20 years, it is high time to start charging the parents in these situations. Unfortunately, it will be the only way some folks will think about what is appropriate in raising their children.

So this guy gets stopped for speeding. As the cop was writing out the ticket, the guy berates the cop. "Why was I stopped" the guy asked. " "Didn't you see all those other cars that were passing me"?

"Did you ever go fishing?" the cop asked.

"Sure" the guy replied.

"Did you ever catch every fish in the lake?"

If the kid is found guilty, execute him. If the parents are found guilty, jail them. Simple. But, until the court finds them guilty they are all considered "innocent." Case open until it isn't. Popular opinion doesn't mean anything.

OP, with all due respect the prosecutor is doing her job with the evidence she has available. I might add evidence that we are not privy to. However, a person is assumed innocent until proven guilty. You make some valid points and entitled to your opinion. So many cases are decided by Social Media opinions without knowing all the facts and evidence in a case. The Court/Jury will decide in due time.

Let me help you with that. What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it.

Is that better? The answer of course is that if that single Black parent bought a gun, knowingly provided access to that gun, knew their child was thinking about killing some schoolmates and did nothing even after the school expressed concern .. all of us would want that Black parent charged. Now find me that example.

The Supreme Court has ruled that people under 18 cannot get the death penalty.

Maybe LAWS SHOULD change. Let's not forget there are 4 families that will never hug their child again!

I think more will come out. I'm sure a lot of us are wondering why the kid's back pack wasn't searched. was it because the parents said they didn't own a gun? or that the kid doesn't have access to the gun? did they forbid the search? the mother referred in the past about kid with troubles...maybe they were worried there would be more disturbing pictures? and why didn't the school require the kid to be removed immediately?? being a danger to others is justification for a 3 day psych hold. I just wonder what assurances the parents may have given for the school to think the kid posed no immediate danger.

My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!

Agree. The school should never take assurances from the parents regarding his mental state. At the very least the child, his back-pack, and locker should be immediately searched. Law enforcement should be notified. Then and only then can an informed decision be reached. Even this may not be enough, but in this case the ball was initially dropped by the parents not securing the gun, the school believing the parents assessment of their son, and the school not searching the boy at school. Notifying law enforcement would likely have initiated the question of firearms at their home, and an investigation to see if they are secure. The local Sheriff stated today that he gets ‘WEEKLY’ alerts from local schools regarding threats. Much more to come out but I sense not only the killer, but the parents and school district are in for some tough times ahead.

"What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it."

Thank you for getting straight to the heart of the matter, of why so many are complaining about charging the parents. Anyone watching legitimate news sources, already know how culpable these poor excuse for parents have been with this little monster. Illegally buying him the gun, telling him to avoid getting caught while shopping for ammo in the classroom, refusing to take him out of school after seeing the deadly/bloody notes he wrote, not insisting on inspecting his backpack, not telling the school he has access to a gun Etc., Etc., - is just the tip of the iceberg on why the parents should legitimately charged.

I'm just a retired GI. I'll leave it up to prosecutors, judges, and Villagers who seem to be experts in the field.

Because they had the right to do so, and their freedom is more important than the safety of the general public. I thought everyone knew that by now?

Not really, once charged the smell of guilt leaves taste that majority don’t forget.

Maybe they don’t have parent (one) that controls them, know what there doing, or where they are at any time of day or night?

Yeah, except no, they don't have that right. But you knew that and were just trying to make a political post...

So, according to you, only black people are single parents and only black kids are criminals?

Personally, I thought the Parkland shooter's foster parents should have been charged, as well as the Sandy Hook mother (but, she was murdered, she has an excuse...)

Originally Posted by manaboutown:
“My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?”

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!”

Manaboutown’s question is a legitimate one. Having the right to do something puts the responsibility on every citizen to weigh every specific situation and decide whether doing that thing is the right thing to do. I thought everyone knew that by now?

I agree, how many school shooting have the been, the one in Littleton CO the kids were building bombs in the basement and the parents were not charged.
I get the community is dealing with one of the worse tragedies but ……
I think their mad because the parents told their not to talk and lawyer up.