Replacing a Carrier Heat Pump in Pennecamp
 

Our CBS Courtyard Villa (Foxglove - 1431 sq ft) came with a 2009 Carrier heat pump. We may get a few more years out of it but, like me, it groans when starting, is noisy when running and seems to cycle a lot. Munn's maintains it and has not suggested replacement.

My concern is a potential failure at the height of summer and possibly a lengthy delay replacing it given current overall supply chain issues.

My thinking is to line up the right brand, size and model for installation this winter.

Both heat pump and air conditioners in our prior homes in Pennsylvania were Trane units which worked very well but I don't see many Trane units here.

I am doing my own due diligence but would like to hear from the community.

Question #1: For those who have replaced their Carrier, how many years did you get out of it before you had to replace it??

Question #2: What brand, model and size did you get to replace the original one for your size home?

Question #3: Evaluation of Installation and follow up service by Sunshine, Munns (etc.)

Any and all tips, cautions, opinions, etc. would be welcomed!!

Can't help you much but coming up in July I'm having Munn's at the house for the first time for an annual check-up
I have a list of concerns also and will be following the technician around like ugly and an ape.

I would get 3 quotes for replacement, but I would buy a Carrier system from Munn's as long as their price is within range. You will get at least a 5-year warranty for parts and labor, and Munn's is very dependable for doing repairs, even on weekends. Chuck Farrell gets good reviews and sells Trane systems or a Trane system with a different name. But, I don't think they are as accessible as Munn's when you need them. When you call, you often get a voicemail. If you are ready for a new system, I don't see any reason to wait until winter.

As far as size, you probably have a 2.5 ton unit for a 1421SF CYV, which is pretty standard. If you don't know the size, write down the Model number and go to the Carrier website.

Personally, I don't pay for a maintenance service, and I think you could skip it for a new system that is under full warranty.

One thing I would suggest is that you ask them to test the electronic float switch in the pan under the evaporator coil. I don't know if that is something they normally do, but it is important that it is operating to prevent flooding if the condensate drain gets clogged.

We replaced our 12 yr old Carrier this March because our technician told us we had a refrigerant leak in the line set under the house. He told us that it would be between $1500-2000 to replace, so we decided to bite the bullet and replace the whole unit, assuming it probably had a couple of years left. We decided on a Mitsubishi ducted unit. It's an inverter type unit, and was substancially less expensive than the similar Carrier inverter (we qualified for a first responder rebate). It also has a 12 yr parts warranty. It's still a small sample size, but our electricity usage is down about 15-20% from the same period the last 2 years. Our house is a touch larger than yours, and it's a 27000-30000 BTU,18 SEER unit, and we got it from M+S Air

IMO The groans you hear probably just the fan start up. IMO it’s going to cycle on and off when it 90 plus. If it’s cooling the the house it’s good. Seems to me A/C scheme going the way of roofs, replacing something that’s not broke, but just old. But, saving few cents or dollar or two month on new unit piece of mind. don’t think the new unit won’t have problems or break downs. IMO they don’t make them like they use too. But, that’s me.

How cool should my house be if it's 100° outside? The majority of air conditioning units are designed to only cool the air about 20 degrees from the outside temperature. If the temperatures outside are approaching triple digits, you should set your thermostat at about 78°.

Have a lot of good questions and you might get a lot of good but different answers. To me most important ? was availabity. We had our system replaced last year and there were not supply issues. My biggest problem is that there are TOO many choices. It was installed 2 days after getting the estimate from Mid Fl. AC

[QUOTE=Sandy and Ed;2111897]Our CBS Courtyard Villa (Foxglove - 1431 sq ft) came with a 2009 Carrier heat pump. We may get a few more years out of it but, like me, it groans when starting, is noisy when running and seems to cycle a lot. Munn's maintains it and has not suggested replacement.

My concern is a potential failure at the height of summer and possibly a lengthy delay replacing it given current overall supply chain issues.

My thinking is to line up the right brand, size and model for installation this winter.

Both heat pump and air conditioners in our prior homes in Pennsylvania were Trane units which worked very well but I don't see many Trane units here.

I am doing my own due diligence but would like to hear from the community.

Question #1: For those who have replaced their Carrier, how many years did you get out of it before you had to replace it??

Question #2: What brand, model and size did you get to replace the original one for your size home?

Question #3: Evaluation of Installation and follow up service by Sunshine, Munns (etc.)

We just went through VERY similar but not exactly your scenario. Large designer model we built in 2002. Trane unit. Still running last fall but "feared" would fail this summer (and it sure is a HOT one isn't it !) and would be a long delay to get a date for installation. Had trouble finding a Trane dealer. Were residents of the area before retiring to the villages, so started out fairly certain we would go with Chuck Ferrell do to their long reputation for honesty, and the fact that they were always there with in an hour if something came up with our Trane (which they did NOT install, it was a villages contractor who did the house). We only had two incidents with the Trane (which I mentioned was still running, loudly, after 22 years), neither turned out to be serious, and Chuck's employees assured us it was nothing serious, just age, and never once mentioned purchasing a new unit. We expressed to them that we'd like to replace even though it did not need any repairs !

We had never heard of the brand of unit we finally settled on, but there are only 2, maybe 3, manufacturers, so you can save a LOT of money, even a couple K's, by not buying a "name", so we did not replace with a Trane (but our unit was probably made by Trane, or Carrier !) The professionalism of their installation employees (long time employees) was amazing ! Personable, polite, all business, it was clear they really knew their field. Entire process in a day (and we had some extra things done in relation to how we wanted a condensation line changes and some other things, but all "extras" were OUR requests, nothing was suggested to us in the was of "add ons", and absolutely no pressure (like the most popular one in the Villages) to sign up for some kind of annual service contract. If YOU ask, they will explain what they offer, but much different from the line we got from the other's we had give estimates. We are not related to anyone in the business, and not personal friends, but since we were central Florida residents, we did have an advantage over people who move here from other states, we knew a bit about the business which is in the little town of Fruitland Park. Will add, the difference in EFFICIENCY in the new unit (which is NOT the highest rated seer) compared to the 22 year old Trane..... is ASTRONOMICAL ! Glad we didn't try to make it through one more summer with the kinds of bills racked up by that old unit !

[QUOTE=Sandy and Ed;2111897]Our CBS Courtyard Villa (Foxglove - 1431 sq ft) came with a 2009 Carrier heat pump. We may get a few more years out of it but, like me, it groans when starting, is noisy when running and seems to cycle a lot. Munn's maintains it and has not suggested replacement.

My concern is a potential failure at the height of summer and possibly a lengthy delay replacing it given current overall supply chain issues.

My thinking is to line up the right brand, size and model for installation this winter.

Both heat pump and air conditioners in our prior homes in Pennsylvania were Trane units which worked very well but I don't see many Trane units here.

I am doing my own due diligence but would like to hear from the community.

Question #1: For those who have replaced their Carrier, how many years did you get out of it before you had to replace it??

Question #2: What brand, model and size did you get to replace the original one for your size home?

Question #3: Evaluation of Installation and follow up service by Sunshine, Munns (etc.)

We just went through VERY similar but not exactly your scenario. Large designer model we built in 2002. Trane unit. Still running last fall but "feared" would fail this summer (and it sure is a HOT one isn't it !) and would be a long delay to get a date for installation. Had trouble finding a Trane dealer. Were residents of the area before retiring to the villages, so started out fairly certain we would go with Chuck Farrell due to their long reputation for honesty, and the fact that they were always there with in an hour if something came up with our Trane (which they did NOT install, it was a villages contractor who did the house). We only had two incidents with the Trane (which I mentioned was still running, loudly, after 22 years), neither turned out to be serious, and Chuck's employees assured us it was nothing serious, just age, and never once mentioned purchasing a new unit. We expressed to them that we'd like to replace even though it did not need any repairs !

We had never heard of the brand of unit we finally settled on, but there are only 2, maybe 3, manufacturers, so you can save a LOT of money, even a couple K's, by not buying a "name", so we did not replace with a Trane (but our unit was probably made by Trane, or Carrier !) The professionalism of their installation employees (long time employees) was amazing ! Personable, polite, all business, it was clear they really knew their field. Entire process in a day (and we had some extra things done in relation to how we wanted a condensation line changes and some other things, but all "extras" were OUR requests, nothing was suggested to us in the was of "add ons", and absolutely no pressure (like the most popular one in the Villages) to sign up for some kind of annual service contract. If YOU ask, they will explain what they offer, but much different from the line we got from the other's we had give estimates. We are not related to anyone in the business, and not personal friends, but since we were central Florida residents, we did have an advantage over people who move here from other states, we knew a bit about the business which is in the little town of Fruitland Park. Will add, the difference in EFFICIENCY in the new unit (which is NOT the highest rated seer) compared to the 22 year old Trane..... is ASTRONOMICAL ! Glad we didn't try to make it through one more summer with the kinds of bills racked up by that old unit !

The most common failure is due to a blown capacitor. They are easy to replace and every AC owner should have one in stock at home. Getting one in advance of a failure will set you back $15-$30 and save time and money. Cheapest insurance you will ever get. Check YouTube for easy to follow instructions

Sun Kool is the best - have used on two homes - call them out for an estimate and have them answer your questions - we replaced a 3 ton with a 3 1/2 ton and two stage which is GREAT!! Ours is also a 19 seer which is out of this world.

I think you have the right idea. Assuming you will only buy a replacement once in your remaining use of the home why not buy it now.

We just recently replaced our whole HVAC system with the new Trane XV outside unit and then the Trane compatible air handler inside unit. Since you are concerned about noise, you will rarely hear the outside unit, or the inside unit run. There is night and day difference in what the builder put in here in TV. DeSantis did ours. Top notch!

If you do decide to replace your HVAC system, can I have your old one. I can use the parts to help my friends and neighbors repair their systems. We can't all afford to dish out $7000 to replace an old HVAC unit. You would be helping the community and in the future you can call on me to help troubleshoot any new problems that may arise. Thank you.

Heat Pump replacement
 

You’ve got your moneys worth out of it, time for a new one. If you can, go for the highest SEER rated unit you can, it will save the cost of the entire unit over the life of the unit. SEER stands for “Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio”. In the USA a SEER rating of 14 is the lowest rating that can be sold. SEERS OF 16 and 19 are much better, but you’ll have sticker shock. The higher the SEER the quieter they usually are as well, and you get better product warranties.

Just outside TV, the Rheem in our 25 yr. old home (1,800 sq. ft.) is capable of freezing us at 73. I'm getting bids, and an experienced HVAC guy told me that Lennox and Carrier are the best two brands.

Ohiobuckeye
 

I had different people that told me that some Air Conditioners that business sell or service Air Conditioners cost as much as 15 to $20,000. yes I think they’re ripping people but they know how hot it is out some will pay it. My daughter was told that but some guy fix there’s for $1,500. the other guy said it would cost $5,000. Like someone else said usually it’s the capacitor. I had to have one changed but cost $80.00 for capacitor & $100. for insulation. Very easy to change, takes about 15 mins. to change! Like everything else everything is getting to expensive & service tech’s know this & they’re taking advantage of it.

It takes them 15 minutes after 2 years of training and years of experience. I suppose when you were working you were happy giving away your expertise cheap. I have found most of the companies around here to be honest and fair

While a high SEER unit will definitely save electric billl somewhat I wonder how many years it will take to recoup the price difference? Don't forget, people around here aren't likely to be around for "the life of the (new) unit". :D

Of course it depends on how much electric you use but my computed SECO AVERAGE bill for 2021 was $1651/12=137.58 (2/2 1200 sq ft) with 2 highest months around $280. We keep temp at 78 all day and 71 between midnight and 7:30am. We still have the original 14 SEER circa 2009 Carrier unit that was here when we moved in in 2017. I have changed the compressor capacitor 3 times in close to 6 years and the AH capacitor 1 time at about $10 or less each and it's still going strong (KNOCK WOOD, PLASTIC METAL and anything else around). How much could I REALLY save with a super high efficiency model (other than what the salesmen tell you). I'm 75. I believe I'll be pushing up daisies before the savings is covered. No, I don't care about the next owners whoever they are. :D Sometimes I think the SEER rating is just a bit overplayed simply to sell a more expensive system. Kind of like the EPA mileage ratings of a vehicle. Even if I saved 20% ($330) over a year I can't see the reason to invest a couple of thousand more up front.

I agree. Note that the Federal requirement for heat pumps in Florida will increase the minimum SEER rating from 14 to 15 on January 1, 2023. So, if you want to save money, you may still be able to buy an SEER 14 unit in 2022. It may save you about $1,000 or so in initial cost. Personally, I would go with the SEER 15 unit since they are changing the standard. But, I wouldn't buy a more efficient unit than that, and I wouldn't buy a multi-stage compressor that some people are talked into buying. Hopefully, there won't be a supply shortage for the SEER 15 units when the new standard goes into effect.

Interesting. So what will happen to all the SEER 14 systems dealers & manufacturers have in inventory? Maybe some good deals coming in OCT-DEC or maybe they will be permitted to sell existing inventory but not manufacture any more?

As I understand it, the SEER 15 requirement is for the warmer climate states, so they can still use SEER 14 units in the North. But, they cannot use existing inventory in Florida. So, there may be some bargain pricing in 2022.

My previous home had a Carrier with a two speed compressor. It ran at half speed most of the time and only kicked into full speed in the late afternoon. The advantage is the system ran continuously from the mid morning to late evening so there was no cycling, which is hard on the system. It also had excellent humidity control. I agree that systems with multi-speed (or two-stage) compressors is the way to go. Our Mitsubishi mini-split for the lanai has a continuously variable speed compressor that runs between 25-100% of nominal capacity.

Give Ray a call from Sunshine. You'll be happy with the product, delivery time, and installation.

Multi-stage and variable speed compressors have been available for many years, but they have never been very popular. Almost all of the HVAC systems in The Villages use an inexpensive, single speed compressor. I have never seen a study that proves that a variable speed compressor is more efficient than a single speed compressor or that it saves money, especially on a life cycle basis. Just because the compressor runs longer at a lower capacity doesn't mean that it is more efficient. I think it depends on the compressor design, the cost for electricity, and the accuracy and timing of the thermostat as to when to switch from a low to a high speed. I agree that, if the compressor runs longer, it will reduce the humidity, but I have not seen issues with high humidity in The Villages. So, personally, I would not pay the extra cost for a multi-speed or variable speed compressor.

You already said that in a previous post. My previous system featured 4 zones (controlled by dampers) and without a variable speed air handler and two-speed compressor it would have been a more difficult ductwork design problem. It was a large house and I wanted uniform temperature and humidity control as well as low operating costs. I think you will find that most mini-splits installed today have variable speed compressors so it really isn’t a decision point for most people installing mini splits. The incremental cost for a split system for a ducted system is small and has many advantages. There will be a cost savings since it takes a system some time to reach steady state when cycling and variable speed compressor systems cycle less. There is a good possibility that my existing ducted system will be replaced by a Mitsubishi, or similar system, featuring the same sort of continuously variable compressor as in my mini-split for the lanai, when replacement time comes. I would like to zone the house also but that would probably require redoing the ductwork. As Dalton said, opinions vary.

What is a two stage unit?
 

I’m curious about the two stage unit you mentioned. Is it the same as a zoned unit? Our unit in TN is zoned. Which means we have one unit with 2 thermostats. One thermostat regulates one end of the house. The other regulates the other end. We would like to do the same thing in FL. Does anyone have experience with this type of setup. Thanks

As I understand it the average life of a heat pump around here is 14 years. Re: Lenox.
I have a friend in Boyton Beach and he bought a high efficiency model and was thrilled
with his savings. The bad news. Reminder not in this area. His unit broke down.
He was told, whatever part he needed was not available. It was repaired under warranty but it took them TWO WEEKS to get the part and get it up and running.

There is no shortage of people who seem to like to complain. Our CPI consumer price index is now close to 9%. It is safe to add 20% to cost two years ago. Having someone come to your home. Plumber etc safe to figure $100 to arrive then the cost of the repair.

Handy? Most repairs, you can learn how on UTube. We had a repair guy bust a sprinkler head.
I didn't even bother to ask or accuse. A quick look on UTube, I was shocked how easy it is to replace. A trip to ACE, the guy from my pictures told me exactly the replacement. I was also shocked how CHEAP the parts are. If I recall like $6.00 for all of it. Truth, on UTube it takes them five minutes. For me more like an hour. It takes time to dig out my shovel. Plus time to BRAG how easy it was to do.

Everything has an expected life. For the capacitor, they are no longer allowed to use the oil filled ones. The must use new ones last about 4 years. Assuming you have your system serviced by a pro. You can have the capacitor replaced while he/she is already there and it will cost you $80. Some will say they replace it themselves. The part is roughly $20. You are messing with 220V and a capacitor. A capacitor stores current and supplies a surge of power to start the AC. Sometimes it is wise not to do it. It is a shock you will remember and may not survive.

There is no shortage of information. Much of what people think they know comes from people interested in selling you stuff. I was impressed, perhaps reading between the lines,
the original poster asked the people who service their 13 year old system and they told them, replacing the unit is not justified.

Our builder supplied unit is a carrier and it is 9 years old. It is marked SEER 15. I expect it falls off over time. I wonder if it ever was SEER 15. I did ask a quote EXPERT. Changing to a SEER 18 roughly 15% up (14.4) would save you 10% at most. The newer units run multi speeds so can do a better job of removing humidity, a large part of air CONDITIONING.
You might be as comfortable at a higher temperature.

PARTS. Nothing lasts forever. The multispeed fan and compressor are far more expensive.
Truth our system is working WELL. Wise to have the money available that gives you options.
It is still running AND I'M STILL RUNNING. Ok TRUTH I do ride a bike. Running? Running hurdles I would need to walk around them-hope no one is looking.

You’ll have to get annual service to keep warranty valid, better ask.

Not true. Munn's came to my house last summer and replaced a defective capacitor. It was fully covered by the 5-year parts and labor warranty. No charge. I have never had them do a maintenance service on it.

It is not true that the "newer" HVAC units have multi-speed or variable speed compressors. Almost all heat pumps installed in The Villages are single-stage units. If you want a multi-speed or variable speed unit, it will cost more money. But, most people do not opt to pay extra for those units, the maintenance and repair will be more expensive, and parts may be more difficult to get. I don't think they are worth buying.

The SEER rating is mostly based on the size of the unit and the coil surface area, so the efficiency should not be reduced very much over time.

I have 5 hvac units I monitor here.
I installed a temp sensor in the air handler. Real blessing. All units produce about 20 to 25 degree drop in that airspace. Anything less is sign of an impending concern. I don't have to wait for anyone to sweat.

I don't fully buy that because most of the systems here in T.V. are single stage and have lasted many years in older homes. Don't "they" say the average A/C lifespan here is 14 years? Considering they are mostly single stage it seems they last pretty long. I don't need 25 years from my next system. :D :D