180 on LIV golf
 

Months ago, I never thought I’d say this. I don’t blame pro golfers to go to LIV Golf.

Hurts to say, but lifestyle, family time, and certainly BIG Bucks speak loudly.

Most of us have a price. And for those guys LIV hit the target. Not wanting to get into the Saudi thing, but the +s sure negate that negative.

Putting myself in a 35 year old PGA pro, and receiving an offer as they are…. Yikes tough to ignore.

I -kind of- admire guys like Rory, but money talks. And for those PGA pros with a healthy bank account, they have it made. Stick with PGA.

But Finally, a golfer said I did it for the money when going to LIV. I actually don’t recall who finally said it, but Finally a Switcher was honest.

I watched some of the John Deere match this weekend but became bored without the big names playing. Just saying.

Some of the LIV changes to the tourneys are quite god and I have watched some of the Portland match on Facebook. Was interesting. But LIV will need sponsors and a TV coverage deal to really succeed in the USA.

Competition is good and the PGA is getting it head-on.

Disagree in total. One point you miss...none of those golfers you don't see on the pga tour were famous before striking it rich on the pga tour and dollars to donuts Mickelsons reason is because his gambling debts are greater than his pga job paid. I guess if you don't play for the love of the game you're right and if you don't honor your commitment to that which made you a star and paid for it as well you are also right.

Personally I put loyalty before $$$$.

Let’s be totally honest. Pro golfers perform because it’s their JOB. It’s how they support their families. Loyalty goes just so far. Some of those players going to LIV may be in the twilight of their careers or just starting out.

I’m honest with myself and why I did a 180. Money talks. Loyalty goes just so far but doesn’t pay the bills. It is what it is.

LIV is boring. A few good players. They received so much up front the purses are peanuts for the top players.

The John Deere should be extinct. Beyond the majors Most tournaments are dull. Time for courses to be US Open difficult every week

The John Deere has always had an issue getting the "BIG" names, a lot of these tournaments do when they are next to a major, or just after one.
Sorry, I don't feel sorry for the LIV players. Guess we'll see how long that league survives...

Don’t see LaBran worry about China, just gimy my money bro, make me some more shoes in the sweat shops. Sports are over paid

Money.

There in lies the root of so many problems. And there is no way to argue that a person/company is highly motivated to make as much as possible. Even at the expense of morals, ethics, lives, whatever.

Doing business with the Saudis is just one example, since the Saudi's don't have a good track record on human rights, morality, etc. One the other hand all those saying LIV sucks because of Saudi funding, and will not support it - how many of you also don't drive a gasoline powered car? OPEC controls about 70% of the worlds oil supplies, so every time you fill up you are putting money into their pockets.

I can understand some of the players taking the big money but I don't understand some of them.

Phil's career is pretty much over. Whether it's gambling debts or whatever, it would be hard to turn down $200 million. Same can be said for Sergio Charl Swartzel, Lee Westwood, Iam Poulter, Martin Kaymer, Louis Oosthuizen, Grahame McDowell.


Some of the other's are not going to make a ton of money on the tour and are not going to have a real legacy to protect. Maverick McNealy, Scott Stallings, Patton Kizzire, Pat Perez, Abe Ancer, Branden Grace, Talor Gooch Kevin Na, Andy Ogletree, Hudson Swafford, Peter Uhlein and a few others.
Some of these players have bounced back and forth between the PGA Tour and the Korn Ferry Tour. They are much better off playing again fewer players with no cut.

Several at the bottom of the list were never really full time PGA Tour players anyway and were probably never going to make it on the PGA Tour.

Now a few puzzle me and I have a some theories that might explain whay they moved.

Koepka, DeChambeau, Patrick Reed and Dustin Johnson have all had some injuries lately and they may feel as though they're never going to be the players that they once were. They can still play at least three of the majors (The PGA of America hasn't said anything yet about the PGA Championship) but they won't be able to play The Players nor possibly the Ryder Cup or President's Cup.

Many have lost all of their sponsors and won't be getting and OWGR points.

The other possibility is that they have lawyers telling them that they are going to sue the PGA Tour in order to get their playing privileges and they are going to win. of course, the Tour also has lawyers that are telling them that they will prevail in a law suit as well.

The DP World Tour sound fairly confident that they are following the rules that have been in place for decades and would also prevail in a lawsuit.

It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

So far this is just another minor league tour with a few marquee players. They will have to get on television in the US or Europe in order to be a worldwide success. They are also going to have to get OWGR points.

But right now, all they have is a five of the top 30 players in the world, a bunch of guys that should be on the Champions Tour or the Korn Ferry Tour or be playing one of the other minor tours around the world.

I'd be interested in watching the event at The International in Massachusetts only because I've played that course several times.

Felt the same way as you did and nobody should be condeming the players. It is a win win situation for them financially. On the other side, I ? the biz model of this league, especally with the up front money, high prize money, no TV contract and competion with the PGA. Doubt that any business who has to answer to board members, stock holders would be in this biz. To make matters worse they are signing up older, past their prime, players and un tested up comers. Pat Perez(46 years old) has won 3 tournament in his career and he was just signed up. Could you imagine what Tiger would have received if he was in his prime.

Only time will tell. Saudi's do have a bottom less pit. Wonder how much personal money Greg has at stake. Bet nothing.

People are criticizing LIV because of the Saudi connections. However, the Chinese are probably more oppressive than the Saudis and people don't have a problem with the Chinese. Many of our products are made in China and people keep buying them. I would bet that everyone reading this post has some Chinese made product in their house.

I don't think the PGA Tour has a problem with the Saudi's civil rights record. I think they are more upset about LIV taking some of the top players making the PGA less attractive for television viewers. The monopoly PGA is objecting to competition.

The following is an interesting article about the PGA and the Chinese connection.

The PGA Tour’s Sportswashing Problem in China – InsideSources

Finally, if LIV put together a tournament with the top 50 players in the world, would you watch it?

I guess all the PGA defenders are also okay with the fact that the PGA doesn't pay one dime in taxes. 100% tax exempt so the can give people millions and millions for hitting a white ball.
The PGA made a total disaster responding to LIV with their constant mud slinging and the commissioner Jay Monahan trying to use 9/11 to shame players to protect his cash cow.
Rory and JT are acting so childish throughout this whole thing.
PGA had a good run as a monopoly on golf but their luck has run out.
It's amazing that after players started jumping ship the PGA found all this money and increased purses for next year. PGA players should be thanking the Saudi's for forcing the PGA to reach into the bank and increase payouts because that wasn't happening without the LIV.

Totally disagree, enough said.

Who then pay taxes on the monies they receive...

You want that money taxed twice? Watch their charitable contributions disappear...

Totally agree with this commentary, and perhaps after witnessing PGAs and Monahan’s actions and talk over the months… is why I have flipped 180 re LIV.

Taxed twice? Oh yeah the IRS code sure allows for that in so many ways.

So well said. Criticism of the PGA is so ridiculous. When a Pro can make more in 4 days than the vast majority of us in a year or oftentimes in 15-20 years, it is hard to feel sorry for them. If it wasn't for the PGA, Phil Mickelson would be selling shoes.

Who is taxed twice?

Oh please. How do you think batteries are charged? How do you thing charging stations are charged? What about the pollution from the mining of lithium batteries or in the disposal of them? We have plenty of oil and gas reserves in our own country but war has been declared on those industries in an effort to force people into electric cars. When you have to stop and charge your car 2-3 times on a trip, wait in line to hook up to a charger and wait another hour or two to charge it, let me know how great electric cars are.

Wrong thread??????

I’m with you on this. I love that the monopoly PGA Tour now has some competition and that the players on both tours will have more of a say in the decision making that affects their lives and livelihoods.

We can all say what we’d do, but until you’re actually in the position to make a seriously life-changing decision then we’re just talking out of our behinds.

LIV is working on tv rights and other major issues to make their tour reach more folks. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Portland event on YouTube TV.

I also think it’s pretty darn cool that they’re treating the caddies the way they are by paying their travel and lodging expenses. That’ll get more experienced caddies looking to make the leap to LIV in addition to the next PGA Tour players that will make the switch.

Exactly!!

Unfortunately, yes, they do...

And I think it sucks...

The PGA wouldn't exist (in today's form) without the players like Mickelson...

The same can be said for the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB...

I was commenting on the poster who complained that the PGA pays no taxes.

I stated the monies paid out (in prize purses) are taxed as income...

It seemed to me, that the poster wanted the PGA to pay taxes and then have the players pay taxes as well...

Non-profits don't work that way...

The PGA Tour is not have a monopoly. There are many competing tours. The PGA Tour just happens to attract the greatest players in the world. Until now, they pay out the most money and run the most prestigious events outside of the four majors. They have rules like all of the tours have and all sports organizations have. Members are allowed to play a certain number of competing events with a release from the Tour. Every player that joins the tour signs a document agreeing to this. If players prefer to play the DP World Tour, or any other tour for that matter, they have every right. They just have to give up their PGA Tour privileges.

The PGA has raised over $3 billion for charities and is a non-profit that is owned by the players. Also, they have set up an infrastructure for golfers to compete at all stages, not just the top players in the world. It is American owned and run by Americans. The tour does so much good for America.

The LIV is owned by the Saudis and run by an Australian. They do no charitable causes and help no one else in golf except themselves.

The players that have moved to LIV are not only traitors to their fellow golfers but traitors to this country.

Agree. Players LIKE Mickelson. It would still certainly exist if Phil Mickelson didn’t exist. No one player has made the tour what it is. Many have had a major influence in growing the Tour. Starting with Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus and of course Tiger have had a big role in creating more interest in the Tour. Mickelson, not so much. He’s been a popular player but the tour would be exactly where it is today without Phil. The same can’t be said for the other players I mentioned.

The idea that a player makes all of his money over four days is ludicrous. These players work seven days a week on their games and often for twelve hours a day. Never mind all of the hours that they put in in the years before they qualify for the tour. We’re also looking at 150 people that can do something that most of the world cannot do. Yes, they can do well but they also sacrifice a lot. They are away from their families for weeks at a time and are constantly traveling on planes and staying in hotels. In addition to that, by entertaining millions of people they raise hundreds of millions of dollars for charity. Four days indeed.

LIV Golf
 

Agree with you. If LIV gets some coverage on cable like USA OR TNT it might last or hold it's own.

The purses in the LIV tournaments are higher than the PGA and every single competitor gets some amount of money for playing the tournament. I think last is 125,000 or so.

Traitors to our country?? 😂😂😂

But the PGA Tour won’t give releases to its members who want to play in a competing tour such as LIV. They use their monopoly-like power to penalize them or strong arm them to stay and limit competition.

Money talks and BS walks -- they should at least be honest and admit to it being GREED - for whatever reason. I will stick with the PGA vs watching someone get big bucks for being +10 at the end of the tournament!!!

Just as you can watch any tour or tournament that you want, these players can play anywhere they want and they don’t have to explain their reasons for it to you or anyone else. It’s their decision alone.
Ask the PGA Tour why they can suddenly raise their purses for several tournaments. Was greed the reason that they waited until LIV came out and offered players a better option?

LIV and let LIV!

They don't strong arm anyone. They simply have a contract that limits the amount of competing tournaments that the players under contract can play.

Every sports organization in fact every company has rules that employees or contractors agree to obey. Many companies have non-compete clauses for after a person leaves their employee.

Can Aaron Judge decide that he's going to play for the Red Sox next week?

Can LeBron James decide that he's going to play in a game in The Premier Basketball League on a night when the Lakers are playing?

A league has to place restrictions on players in order to survive. You might take notice that the DP World Tour (formerly the European Tour) has also suspended players that are playing the LIV tour. Their players are also under contracts to which they agreed.

Well, let’s just call it anti-competitive rather than strong-armed. The MLB and NBA along with other sports leagues have minimum salaries for their players. The PGA Tour does not. A player is paid by his ability to perform well in a tournament. Totally different contracts and not a valid comparison.

The PGA Tour does not have a non compete clause. The decision is solely Jay Monaghan’s as to whether he’ll grant a player a release to play in other events and this is limited to 3, I believe.

The DP Tour and the PGA Tour are acting together to limit competition. Why are they afraid of LIV Golf? More tournaments and better pay for players and caddies and more exposure of golf around the world is not a bad thing.

I agree 100%. Let's face it, the LIV tour players went for the money grab. This last tournament the last place golfer was +21 for 3 rounds and got $128,000. He wouldn't have made the cut in a PGA tournament. Kind of gets me PO'ed since I was +14 in my last 3 rounds and had to pay $143 for the privilege :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Traitor? What about the NBA, China?
Tiger’s drunk, drugs and whoring around? He made money for PGA so all is forgiven. I wouldn’t want him for a role model for anyone. Has been.

Are you really serious? I don't see any pro golfer going hungry or living in poverty.

Just like most pro sports players they are all well overpaid.

Good for them...........
 

Imagine you are past your prime and cannot keep up with the competitors coming onto the scene. Hogan and Sneed gave rise to Palmer and Nicklaus who gave rise to Tiger Woods, the best of all time and time to come. Tiger Woods has given rise to a new breed of unknown golfers who can shoot low low numbers, and a lot of them. The golfers previously mentioned, Tiger included, could not compete with this new generation. They are shooting 7 to 10 under par in a single round. The problem is they are not the personalities as the previous players. There will never be another Lee Trevino. Once you start watching golf for personalities your not watching golf.

Professional golfers are a done deal at 30 nowadays. Last year the PGA paid 50 million to golfers who became media attracters. So Phil did his stupid stuff and Tiger only had to appear once in the Father Son to take first prize. While Phil being
goofy Phil came in 2nd again. What a waste of money.

So Greg Norman sees this trend of early has beens but still popular and decides to take advantage of it with the help of people who don't care about money. They just wanted to buy another toy. They don't have to make money just friends. Look at all of our wealthy that buy professional teams as their toy.

Discussions of dirty money are just hypocritical. If you really believe that, don't watch. AH, but you can't stay away. Who is the hypocrite.

Its a toy, it doesn't have to make sense or money. The game has reached a level where the competition is so great that many who were are no more. So what is their alternative, not much until now. Gut it out for four years and go to the bank weekly. Phil doesn't have to make a cut or any of them. Imagine becoming obsolete and then hitting the lottery. Good for them.........they will support America with their new tax contributions.....