Uvalde School Shooting Report
 

They just issued a 77-page report on the Uvalde school shooting citing "systemic failures". I think it could have been a one-page report saying that the armed police officers on the scene didn't enter the classroom and shoot the suspect because they were afraid of getting shot themselves.

I do not know if the guy in charge of the police was afraid but disgraceful that they sat outside while children were murdered.

Nearly 400 officers were at Uvalde school as police waited to confront gunman, report says - OPB

Very tragic all around. Probably not for Texas tort lawyers though. Maybe they will clean up their act though after this.

I truly do not know how those "trained" police can live with themselves. But I bet they can find some sort of an excuse for their lack of action.

The bulk of the officers were waiting on their commanding officers so not sure that all share in the blame. However the leadership should be looking for new jobs where their cowardice would not be an issue

Each and every officer should be fired and lose their pensions. Those deemed in charge should face legal discipline. All should be open to a civil lawsuit. Babies are dead because they were cowards. They took an oath to keep the public safe. Dereliction of duty.

So agree. I am a law enforcement supporter but when they go wrong or as in this incident it’s horrendous.

So many of them simply cowered in that hallway. What was especially cowardice was some of them running back to THEIR safety after apparent gunfire by the bad guy out the rooms door. It is simply astounding how they did not try the classroom door. Reports show it was probably unlocked. Cowards. That one officer who ran back and asked “am I bleeding???” Please. Do your job.

But the worst of it all was holding the parents back outside showing no mercy. Then the lies to the TX governor. On and on…

Yes they will have to live with it. But those poor parents and friends…. My heart goes out. No words. Simply awful. And we in the USA had better learn something from this.

ALERRT is the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training center in Texas. They provide various training to Law Enforcement personnel. Their report on the responding officers actions is very telling. The report can be downloaded here: Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training:
Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training

The most horrifying issue to me, is after Ramos crashed the pickup he was driving two employees from a Funeral Home began walking toward him to offer assistance. He began shooting at them and they fled. An officer witnessed this, stopped his vehicle and with his own AR had Ramos in his sights. The officer then called his supervisor for permission to take the shot. He knew Ramos was dangerous and he knew that Ramos was walking across a field toward the school carrying a rifle. He asked a second time for permission but Ramos reached the unlocked door of the school. That officer could have ended this tragic event at the beginning.

Officers entered the school within 3 minutes of Ramos entering the school and failed to press into the classroom and engage the shooter. Instead Ramos was left unchecked for 77 minutes. Precious time that would have saved many of the lives of those who bled out during that time, including the children who were still alive dialing 911 and the teacher who was wounded and dialed 911. Had medical help been available in those early minutes the death toll would have been much less.

The interim report from the Texas House of Representatives investigation can be found here: https://static.texastribune.org/medi...0Committee.pdf

I'm a professional firearms instructor and teach people to be competent with their firearm, as in accurate and fast.

It is grossly apparent to me in watching the video of the conduct in the hallway that the responding officers were totally not trained for this. Anyone stepping into that hallway would be afraid. The brave person can push through the fear and with the confidence of their training, get the job done. The coward stays in the hallway while children bleed out.

There are practical solutions that will stop so many of these mass shootings if our society will just implement them. The same goes for the daily killings in cities like Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc.

So much for the whole Texas "right to life" agenda. One man shot many already-born children and 400 police officers didn't intervene. Maybe if it was a woman shooter it would've gone differently. Then again - when was the last time a woman committed a mass shooting at a school? Hm.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge

The conflation and odd supposition is pretty sad.

My wife said the same thing.

Texas always does things in a big way.
400 officers standing around is doing nothing in a big way with their large fingers up their @ss.

I do respect the jobs they do BUT, 400 Officers?????

Nice going Tex-as.

What a black mark for the state and nation.

How is it a conflation? Either LIFE is precious or it isn't.

The supposition is a bit of a stretch I will agree.

Then you have a normal citizen that takes action. Maybe Uvalde PD should hire this guy.

Indiana mall shooting: Live updates | AP News

My wife just pointed out that Beau of the 5th Column, on Youtube, did a piece this, and pointed out that the Supreme Court has as far back as 1981 ruled that the police have no obligation or legal responsibility to PROTECT people. The only legal obligation is to arrest them. If this is true, then the chances are that nothing can be done (like suing the officers). They according to this are not required to do anything to protect people. So much for the Protect and Defend on police cars.

The conflation is trying to awkwardly combine two completely different issues. One very political and the other very sad. I agree 100% that LIFE is very precious. The action, or lack thereof, by the police in Uvalde is completely unacceptable and embarrassing.

Police are working under a term I heard some time ago called "common law."

True story:

I friend of mine went to (Of all places) a outdoor church picnic. He was in a group of 4 friends and were being harassed by a gang of troublemakers in the parking lot for parking to close.

One of my friend's buddies was told by the troublemakers they were going to kill him that night

My friend approached a police officer on the grounds and said they were being threaten. The officer said until he sees someone doing harm, he cannot do anything.

The next morning my friend got the terrible news they did indeed kill his good friend, and the killer was awaiting trial.

The family sue the officer that was working that night, went to court and LOST the case.

Reason, the officer was there to protect all people not just one person or persons under "common law."

Sad world we live in.

That is a horrible story. We all need to realize our safety and our security is our own responsibility. If we don't or can't defend ourselves and choose to outsource our security we will be disappointed in the result in the best case and not survive in the worst case.

Fl. law
 

If someone threatens your life, here in Fl. , the police can do nothing. Unless there is direct physical harm or a weapon is pointed at you, the police can only be reactive, not proactive.

It turns out that police have no obligation to protect the public. This has been ruled in numerous court cases, from state courts to the Supreme Court. The latest was in the Parkland School shooting. The court ruled that the police had no obligation to attempt to save the lives of the students.
The police have no legal liability for the dead students and teachers at Uvalde.
Do the Police Have an Obligation to Protect You? - FindLaw

You have to face reality, to blame the police for not doing what was expected of them is understandable, but they also want to go home at the end of their shift and see their families. The shooting at the Tops Supermarket in Buffalo, the guard did what was expected of him and died, and the shooter kept killing people. Yesterday a good guy with a gun did stop a shooter in a food court, but that is rare. There is a problem in this country, and it cannot be solved with a good guy with a gun or trying to figure out who is mentally unfit to own a firearm. It might not be what people want to hear and I'm sure it will not eliminate all mass shooting, but there has to be more control over the firearms. It could be restricting what type firearms can be sold or making the owners financially responsible for the weapon in their possession. I'm not sure exactly what, but whatever we are doing at the moment is not working.

So much for a good guy with a gun, a lot of guys with guns but none with balls.

Uvalde shooting
 

One word:cowards.

Schools' physical security needs to be hardened, meaning making it more difficult for the bad guy to get to the children. Police forces should have better training. Example would be to hire former Seal Team members as training consultants. Seals train constantly for hostage situations and rescue. The SWAT team where I used to live had a training day EVERY week. Barricade and hostage situations were always addressed. Our snipers were trained by experts in the military and trained at the FBI academy when available. Gun control should be at the bottom of the list, as a bad guy can always obtain a gun, make a bomb, or find other innovative means to murder.
1. Physical security/hardening targets
2. Specialized training

And, compare that to a 22-year-old armed citizen (not military or police) who just used his hand gun to stop a mall shooting in seconds.

Simple solution to attempted mass shootings? Someone shooting back QUICKLY. I mean, we call 911 expecting an armed response (one that Uvalde didn't get). The sooner, the better, right? These criminals assume no opposition; at least not quickly. Bet that recent mall shooter was surprised at the bullets flying in his direction ... for the few seconds he was alive to ponder that mystery. No arrest, no trial, no prison expenses.

Sorry for those injured / killed. Happy and thankful for so many more (he had hundreds of rounds of ammunition on him) that didn't have that fate as a result of a quick, armed response.

Thank God for good guys with guns. HE is the hero.

i couldn't have said it better! i repeat: we have more police &/or guards @ a BANK than we do protecting schools. :Screen_of_Death:

What would be a perfect solution instead of spending all that money fortifying schools and hiring armed ex-military. Teach our children in prisons, we have enough of them, there hard to get into and there are armed guards there 24/7.

There are other solutions to greatly reduce mass shootings and yet people don't want to consider them as well.

Motive

What is the motive to enter a school, grocery store, or mall and shoot people that the Shooter doesn't even know? We see time and time again that they were fascinated with previous mass shootings. Are they trying to "beat the score", like a video game? Are they seeking fame? I can imagine in their mind that fame and infamy are one and the same. That motive can be removed by never mentioning their name to the public. Keep it in official reports only. The media can stop sensationalizing these horrific stories.

Security

I hear time and time again that people don't want to turn schools into prisons. A person can't walk into a Federal building, a County Court house, an airport, etc. with a gun. Why is that? What does a federal building have that is more important to protect than children? This short video on YouTube illustrates the safest school in America. For the cost of the upgrades they implemented, it could be done nation wide for much less than we send to other countries for their security. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcpsnrxHdCc

Defense

I understand that people are uncomfortable with teachers being armed. I understand that many teachers would not want to be armed. There are other options.

1). Florida implemented, by statute, the Guardian Program named for Coach Aaron Feis from the Parkland shooting. You can read the statute here: Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine

The requirements to be a school guardian are significant. I believe the number of Florida schools that have a guardian is over 80%.

2) Every classroom should have an alarm, similar to a fire alarm, that when pulled emits a different tone so every person knows there is a shooter. That alarm should also alert authorities at their precinct as well as mobile units. There could be a "Black Alert" similar to Blue Alerts or Silver Alerts. The sooner someone engages the shooter the more lives will be saved. For teachers who are willing to be armed (with required training) a handgun can easily be stored in a biometric safe that only the teachers finger prints can open. Children could never access it.

3) A gun safe could be installed in every principals office with appropriate gear and weapons.

4) Non-lethal response options. The Byrna pepper launcher uses CO2 to launch proprietary pepper rounds much like aiming a pistol. There are currently over 200 Police departments evaluating it as an alternative to tasers. The pepper round is a mix of tear gas and capsaicin. It stops an assailant in their tracks without killing them. If a child happened to get a hold of the Byrna it won't kill anybody. Here are a couple of videos demonstrating it's effectivity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04neU4UU974

Police officer giving it a try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5db0qRMJSfs

Galveston Texas Police used one against an aggressive Felon. They stopped a dangerous situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkQWv03aHkU

There are a lot of options that should be considered. People a lot smarter than me can come up with other solutions. We can greatly reduce mass shootings without infringing on the Rights of law abiding citizens.

Incidentally, I am a dealer for Byrna if anyone is interested. A great solution for home, auto, and personal defense when you want a non-lethal option.

Though many people believe that arming teachers is a good idea. It's a great idea until a teacher flips out and starts shooting their students and no one can bring a person to that point more than children. There has been more than one incident of a teacher physically attacking a student. As far as fortifying the school, if the gunman really wants to kill children they'll wait until they're coming out at the end of the day or in the school yard. There are many countries where you will see arm guards with automatic weapons on their shoulder everywhere. Is that how you really want to live.

I understand what she said about Protect, but do beleive that this is for a situation when a crime has not occurred, such as a situation when a person is threatened. On this case there was an active shooter, when they came out. 376 police arrived in a town which had 20,000+/- residents.

You have to wonder if the delay in response by the supervisor was because of recent riots after the use of deadly force by police. We've seem demonstrations and riots after police have legally stopped an innocent woman from being stabbed. We've seen deaths that resulted after police were first fired upon. We've seen the town of Ferguson racked by riots after an officer killed a thug who tried to take his gun. The list goes on and on and the resulting impact on life and death decisions by police has been tragic.

Ahhh, law enforcement. The job everyone thinks they can do better than the people that actually do it. Master's degrees from television shows, apparently.

I normally just tune out all law enforcement critics. People who have not experienced (first hand) the job really do not understand what it takes. They do not understand decades of living at tactical alert, at being privy to the goings-on of people and the true nature of dangers in the world and how quickly and unexpectedly they appear. People are more concerned about getting tickets or calling on cops because they don't like the neighbor's wind chimes. They do not know of 90% of the dangers and encounters that occur, only the ones the news picks up and publicizes.

All that being said, there were two large failures, in my estimation. Primarily, those in charge were cowards - political cowards. Paralysis by analysis. Too afraid to make a mistake, better to do nothing at all mentality. Have you ever seen the old T-shirt from the L.A. riots? Sure wish I still had one: a waffle pattern boot print real big across the back, and the words, "Footprint of a coward." The twist is that the waffle pattern was made up of rank insignias. Clever shirt.

Secondarily, the line level offices that were too afraid, (whether personal safety or career safety) or too morally bankrupt (thank you modern society) to step up and override the primary causation factor, the leadership.

Fear of being dragged into Federal court to be charged criminally or civil court to be charged personally and the media fanning of flames has taken its drastic toll on law enforcers and their actions or lack thereof.

Do not underestimate the daily attacks they undergo - the outright disrespect, hatred, and assaults that no other profession endures. No one routinely shoots at lawyers, as much as people don't like them, they just make jokes at their expense. Law enforcement endures exponentially more dangers than ANY other profession, and they are constantly second-guessed by every TV watcher in America (and abroad apparently since Prince Harry has opted to weigh-in now). Even here, in this thread of supposed law enforcement supporters, the armchair criticism is unmistakable - and amateur.

I find the individual officer's response disgusting, but understandable.

I find the weasel-like response by the leadership to be treasonous to their oath - but it is neither unprecedented (Talking to you, 1992 LAPD) nor uncommon (every city, big and small, pandering to politicians to maintain their careers). Even the L.A. County Board of Supervisors last week voted 4-1 to give themselves the unconstitutional authority to fire the County Sheriff. The lawfully elected by the people County Sheriff. So much for an independent law enforcement leader who answered only to the electorate.

I suppose this is Progressivism. Defund the police (training), etc. If so - the USA is damned to further decay, and eventual failure. Tragic.

I ask a guy years back: Why he felt he needed to carry a gun."

His reply was:
"I would rather have that choice to protect my family, myself or other citizens then to
stand by and see them being shot then living with the thought of doing nothing."

No matter what the issue people will have strong opinions. The day it affects them or their children directly their opinions change.

That report TOTALLY DISPROVES the often-quoted excuse that "a good guy with a gun" is the solution to protecting us all from the bad guy with a gun! There were more than 350 law enforcement officers at that site and some of those children were more than likely murdered AFTER their arrival on-scene.....

They are in line for excellent pensions, much better than 95% of people in the private sector.

That's how.

bingo! You win the internet award for today.

Uvalde School Shooting Report
 

I agree.

I think the initial delay from the officer that had the shooter in his sights while he was still outside is due to the media treatment of Law Enforcement and lack of support from politicians. It may also be a flaw in that departments protocols. The officer already knew the Shooter had taken shots at the two men who were walking toward the crashed pickup, so the question of armed and dangerous was readily apparent.

Everything that occurred in the hallway is a flaw in response protocols, in my opinion. Also many did not have the courage to engage the shooter. From viewing the video, of those in the hallway the only ones who acted appropriately were older men. The officer who caught shrapnel in his head (from concrete being hit) was the first to engage within 3 minutes of the Shooter entering the building. The officer engaged but had nobody to back him up. The paramedic on the scene later on was also older and immediately began directing people. He was the only one in view of cameras that took up a leadership role.

I don't know the answer in addressing the media who demonizes Law Enforcement and makes heroes and martyrs of criminals. There should be some way to have truth in reporting and accountability on media for their role is social discourse.