Screwed by Patriot Pools & Spas
 

I requested a quote from Patriot Pools and Spas for the installation of a pool heater and to re-grout the tiles. They called me with a price which I though was reasonable so I authorized and scheduled the work. The two man crew came out as scheduled and performed the work. At the end of the day grout looked good and the gas fired heater was set in place but not operational. The crew informed my wife that the heater was not operational because the natural gas feed was not hooked up because "they are not the gas company". I was never told by Patriot that the gas hook up work was not included in the quote and that price was not for a turn key job.

So now what appeared to be a reasonable price quote is far from being reasonable because I need to hire a Plumbing Contractor to run a gas line to the heater and hire an Electrical Contractor to install a grounding system for the new gas line.

Did you get the quote in writing or ask if after the work was done you would have heat?

Stu quote was verbal over the phone. Typically in the Construction industry furnish and installs means fully operational at the completion of the installation.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask if the heater that I just paid for would heat the pool after the installers were finished installing it.

There was definitely a lack of communication somewhere. I can understand why Patriot may not be licensed to install the gas lines but they certainly should have advised the OP up front that the separate work was needed. I would also have expected them to help coordinate the additional contractors required to complete the job.

Perhaps Patriot did this (or tried to) and there was just a misunderstanding.

I had to manage safety/utility connection and permits separately on my SPA installation, but was told in advance.

Make sure appropriate permits are approved and posted before the remaining work is started.

Understand that must have been quite a shock. We've found you must be so careful here...anywhere of course, but we've found Florida to be one of the most that draws "shady" and even out right criminal trades people, "businesses", etc. People are told so much false information concerning things like "legally required" down payments in cash, etc. all kinds of scams and schemes. Doubt that NOT going the extra mile to make sure a customer understands there will be additional costs is a legal requirement, but it would certainly be a sign of a very above board business. We've found what seemed like very reliable and honest people who also were recommended by personal friends, in several trades, but before agreeing (in one instance to a tree removal) we went the extra step to check the insurance and state license numbers CLEARLY displayed on their vehicles. Turns out, numbers were 100% legit, but the business had NOT renewed their licenses for over 3 years and no longer carried the insurance states on their vans and business card. Just shows, you really can't judge a place on a legitimate looking appearance. Same with contracts, so full of loopholes it pays to at least have someone, if only a trusted friend, examine it, even if you don't want to go to the expense of an attorney for a relatively small job, most of us can't afford that... and businesses KNOW it... ;);)

Something doesn't sound right about this thread. A contractor gave you a price over the phone to re-grout tiles and to run a gas line without looking at the tiles or measuring the distance or location for the gas line? I cannot imagine a contractor providing a price for that type of work without looking at the project.

Now that you mention it a very strange way to do business

Have paid them? Have your discussed this failure to complete the job with them. Have you reason to believe that they should be reported to the BBB? Have you consulted an attorney or considered small claims court?

No contract detailing the work to be done. Commitment on a phone call. 2 huge mistakes by the homeowner. The BBB has no value.

Assuming the job cost several thousand dollars how do you not get it in writing? Now it is a he said/she said.

I just received a "I See The Light" letter from Patriot Pool and Spa stating that "their performance over the last 18 months has been completely unacceptable", and they are going to clean up their act. We'll see.
Probably not properly explained, I would not expect a pool company to do gas or electrical work.

You were not screwed by them… you just did not do your homework or ask the right questions. Agree they should have told you that the gas line hook-up would need to be done by others.

At least you got a call back from them.
When my free service was over, i got 1 call from them, went to voicemail.
I tried to call them for 3 weeks, to sign up for service. Finally talked with someone, they said we will call you back. 2 weeks later got a call back.

By then, i was committed to another pool company.

Well, here are two quotes from their website:

"We can install lights, filters, pumps, and more for your pool and/or spa."

"If any part of your pool or spa is broken, we can fix it."

Dont look a gift heater in the mouth
 

i know this issue hurts you. On the bright side your safety is assured rather than at the mercy of unprofessional personell.

Hook ups for pool heater
 

I've never had any type of work done w/o getting a written estimate prior to beginning the work. It ensures understanding on both sides & reduces problems in the long run. In years gone by, a verbal quote was good enough & vendors stood by what they said.

My dad was an attorney in the mid 50's and often met with opposing counsel to discuss the issues in a lawsuit. Most times they came to an agreement, shook hands and paper work followed. This went on til late 70's when a handshake was no longer one's bond or honor.

I think what you experienced was unfortunate, but w/o a written estimate/contract you don't have a leg to stand on, in my humble experience. "Once burned, twice shy!"

“Over the phone”
It appears that you had a misunderstanding about the contractor’s scope of work. A misunderstanding over scope of work is not the contractors fault.

It is best to get scope of work for construction in writing to reduce misunderstandings.

Hard to believe OP didn't have a written contract. Understand Patriot is going through some problems since new ownership from T&D pool.
:pepper2::pepper2::bowdown:

If it is too cheap to be true it is obviously true.

This probably what happened and the sales person for whatever reason forgot to go over this part of the project.

One thing i've learned living here in Florida over the past year is you have to do your homework and fully understand the project you are undertaking and ask the right questions.

You can't call a up a company, even a reputable one and just say "do this for us" and assume everything is covered. Never assume.

Oh, How Many Times…
 

…. have I responded to posts like this saying call T&D Pool & Spa. Without question you’ll have to wait a little longer, and their price probably won’t be the cheapest. But the job will get done totally to your satisfaction. They have a simple policy — they never want to have a dissatisfied customer, never!

To clarify things Patriots pools presently services my pool and was asked for a quote to re-grout and install a gas fired water heater. They sent someone from their service department over to my house to inspect the tile work and existing pool equipment. A Patriot representative called me to give me the estimate and asked if I'd like to schedule the work. The fact that the heater would not be fully operational upon completion of the work was never mentioned.

That makes more sense. But, assuming the gas line is located near the heater, you should be able to find a handyman, plumber, or your gas company who can connect the gas and electric for about $100 or so. That is what the Leesburg gas company charges for a gas hook up.

Policy is not reality.

T&D is terrible.

They install pools nicely when working for The Villages, but direct work for Villagers have significant issues.

My experiences have always been (and I've built many pools ) pool company never does gas line for heater

There are companies that won't do a natural gas hook up for any appliance because of the liability. That is why many of the gas companies offer the service.

But, this is something that the contractor should have told the OP.

A “handyman” cannot legally do the gas installation/hookup. It has to be done by a licensed plumber with certification to work on gas lines . Not all plumbers have that needed training/certification.

When I added a natural gas grill, I hired Mike Scott Plumbing to install a quick disconnect coupler and shut off . Although the job was simple and I could have done it myself, I chose that route for home owner’s insurance purposes….

T and D Better
 

Actually, T and D charges LESS for a service call than Patriot: T and D charges $90, but Patriot charges $110 PLUS a $14 "mileage charge", so $90 vs. $124.

A handyman cannot do any plumbing or electrical work legally without a plumbing and electrician license. But, if they did everything legally, they would go out of business. But, as a homeowner, you can do just about any work on your own house legally.

What special certification is needed in Florida to work on gas lines? The Florida licensing website says that a licensed plumbing contractor can work on natural gas lines:

"without obtaining any additional local regulatory license, certificate, or registration"

That certification applies to specialty contractors that have a limited scope of work.

"A “specialty contractor” means a contractor whose scope of work and responsibility is limited to a particular phase of construction and whose scope is limited to a subset of the activities described in the categories established in s. 489.105, F.S."

According to the Florida license website, you don't need to hire a specialty gas line contractor to hook up a natural gas appliance. Here is a link to the Florida website that describes what type of work a licensed plumber can perform.

Construction Industry – MyFloridaLicense.com

Under plumbing contractors, it says that plumbers can work on natural gas pipes. Also, I don't think that Mike Scott Plumbing has a gas line specialty license. According to the Florida website, Mike Scott is a certified plumbing contractor, but not a gas line specialty contractor.

Thanks!

Would it make a difference ig they had to run a new gas line?

Not sure, but I don't think so, if it is on private property.

This whole thread is strange, wondering what the contractor would say about the verbal quote.

A friend in Lakewood Ranch wanted a gas heater for his pool(an afterthought unfortunately). He groused about the high cost of running a gas line but there was no combined gas line/pool heater installation. Two separate entities.

The first question the
Patriot rep should have asked was do you have an existing gas heater? A no answer should have prompted the information regarding the need to run a gas line.

Any contractor that does not come out and look at the job is a red flag.

all you need to test a gas line is a manometer attached to a fitting and the ability to isolate the lines with two tees

Not uncommon here since they can view the property drawings on line.