Pine Straw or Bark over White Stone?
 

I have front and back yard covered with white stone. Since it's been a long time, weeds are growing thru the PVC cover beneath. I have been hiring landscaper for weeding and shrub trimming but I have a feeling these guys are not regularly spraying and I have reservations for those chemicals they have been spraying even when they do their job.
So, can I cover my white stone with Pine Straws or Pine Barks and would they prevent any weeds growing? What's the difference between 14" and 9" pine straws? What would be the best option to prevent weeds if not pine barks/straws? My neighbor installed artificial turf but I really don't like anything artificial and I think they are much more costly..

Cheers!

The reason (IMHO) you have weeds in the stone is all of the dust, dirt, etc, has settled between the stones and provides a place for weeds to go. We have stone also, and when i hand pick the weeds they are definitely ABOVE the "weed barrier". So, what we have done is invest in one of the battery powered weed control sprayers, and I spot weed as necessary, takes about 10 to 15 minutes for all of our garden area, and I refill the battery powered container as necessary.
Also, when we had pine bark, it was 3 to 4 inches, the same for the pine straw. We removed the pine bark as it was dirty as it decomposed, the pine straw seems to be much cleaner.
I actually saw an article within the last 6 months that made a very good case for not using a weed barrier at all.
In any case I would not place either of these items over the rock, O would remove the rock and then install.
Hope this helps.

OP, VT (post #2) made an excellent post and explanation of your issue. I will only reiterate for you not to put pine needles or bark over the top of your rock as that would just compound the problem you
have. We have rock and about every three or four years we top it off and that seems to help the weed issue. Weeds are a difficult if not impossible to totally control. Our bushes, roses and such are doing well from the spraying we do. Just don’t weed spray when it’s windy! Good luck.

I was told the worse color stone to use is white around plantings of shrubbery, flowers, and bushes.
The reason is the white stone reflects the sun off tender leaves and branches from underneath burns the plants foliage and
will kill the plants.

This sounds like a crazy idea. What's next, install more rocks over the pine straw, and then some more pine straw?

Weed Seeds are airborne. They settle where they will; on mulch, pine straw or stone. Weed barriers don’t work against these type of weeds. If you don’t like the chemicals, try using a DIY vinegar based weed killer. (You can google various recipes).

Pine Straw is available in long leaf or regular….at the end of the day they do the same thing ; retain moisture and cool the roots of plants from the scorching sun. Not sure they get to 14”….

Pine Straw and Mulch are beneficial. I can’t see why you could not cover the rocks. They do bring their own issues as the fade quickly and might harbor termites. Mulch might float away during heavy rains. But, weeds will still grow in this medium.

Live with the rock but do your own weed spraying. It’s the easier and cheaper alternative to all of the options.

Weed Killer
 

I have tried numerous brands of weed killer with limited success. Has anyone used a brand that could recommend to kill weeds and grass. This would be in an area where there are no pets or people in the vicinity.
Thanks

Nothing will stop weeds I would pull up cloth weed put down preen a pre-emergent then use pine straw thick pull weeds when they pop up.

There is nothing to stop weeds we control weeds

May I suggest going to the big box store and buying a hand held burner that uses a small propane bottle (like for camping). Walk around and burn the weeds. I would not use it on Pine Needles :-).

Landscapers are quick to sell stone. The Villages Master Gardners and many others will tell you to only use pine straw or bark. Worth attending some of their programs.

This is Florida......weeds are a fact of life, like sunshine.

You are absolutely correct the weeds are above the weed cloth and are easily pulled. I regularly pull the weeds to keep them under control nothing will stop the weeds. I recently pulled up some stone to put in a patio and was amazed how much dirt was above the weed cloth.

To kill weeds in my flowerbeds, I mix 1 gallon white vinegar, 1 cup water, 2 tablespoons salt, 1 tablespoon of Dawn dishwasher soap in a spray bottle. Will kill weeds in a couple of days and kills ants too. Be careful to not spray on plants you want. Also, plants will do much better if you make a small circular area (move rocks out of the circular area) around the plants low to the ground and put mulch in that circular area. The mulch allows the plants not to burn since rocks keep the heat in.

That's what I use in my rock areas. Works pretty well.

I have white rock in my landscape and have few issues. I found that I can control weeds that germinate from seeds by sprinkling some preen on the rock landscape area. Preen is sold in most big box hardware stores. It is not a weed killer so it won't kill your garden plants. It works by preventing seeds from germinating. It will not kill already germinated weeds. You may have to sprinkle it on a few times to get good coverage. It last about 6 - 7 months for me and drastically reduces the weeds popping up through the rocks. Over time it has reduced my weeding by about 90 %.

Weeds
 

IMHO all companies use chemicals diluted to the point of being useless. Buy a sprayer and concentrated long term Roundup. Spray as needed. I suggest the whole area initially then spot treat as necessary. Pine straw and bark require constant replenishment, blow around in the wind and also get weeds as much if not more than stone.

Get the super strong vinegar salt little dawn it works great and fast

I would start spot spraying my self if you can do it. I get some (very very little) weeds in my thick pine bark so you will probably always have a little bit of a weed problem.

You can probably cover the stones if you so choose, however I wouldn’t recommend that. I would remove the stone first if it were me. That’s another cost to deal with.

The difference between 9” pine straw and 14” pine straw is the tree species source. There are 3 pine species that are used for most of the pine straw in this area: loblolly pine (4”-6” needles), slash pine (7”-9” needles) and long leaf pine (9”-16” needles).
They each have different replacement times based on their characteristics so they probably cost different amounts. Longleaf will last the longest before needing refreshed. It also has a redder color than slash pine.

I’ve had pine straw, bark mulch and stones and pine straw seems to attract the most insects. All three will have weeds and have different life spans between replacing or refreshing.

One note of caution on pulling some weeds: nut sedges will grow more prolifically if you pull them. They have multiple means of spreading rather than just seeds. Once pulled, the plant reacts to that stress by putting out more underground “runners” and you’ll be totally frustrated when you se the increased spread. Use a chemical control on this weed. There are others that do the same thing.

I walk around my stone and mulch covered landscaping several times each week patrolling for and eradicating weeds.

RANGER is the only brand I use! Recommended by a Florida Landscaper years ago…. A little goes a long way… it will rectify the OPs issues… Ranger is a Monsanto product…,

Green Gobbler works great in non grass areas. It’s all we use.

go get yourself a couple gallons of white vinegar and soak the area - problem solved

I’ve been a Floridian for only 5 years but I’ve had properties at the Jersey shore where the weeds came through the stones as well. The first response pointed out that dust and debris settles in the rocks making the perfect place for airborne seeds to plant themselves. Also birds eat seeds from plants and their droppings can fall in your yard (my grandson told me that) and grow. My opinion for wood chips is that they decompose and I still don’t understand pine straw. Seems to me that it’s a great place for snakes to hide. I take care of my weeds with a spray that quickly takes care of them and the new battery operated sprayers is the way to go. I just don’t spray anywhere my dog goes. And BTW, you don’t need grass for your dog to go potty. Good luck in whatever you decide.

color
 

what color are the snakes around there?

40+ years in landscaping here... and licensed to kill... weeds...

Do not cover stone with straw, that would make a mess.

Straw/mulch does not go over weed barrier, stone does.

Buy a sprayer. Spend a couple of bucks and get the battery operated one. Mix both a Roundup product (glyphosate - which is Ranger or any number of products) with Weed-B-Gone (or any other broadleaf weed killer). Start at a rate of 2 oz per gallon of each and go up until you get the effect you want.

The Weed-B-Gone products act like a strong fertilizer and accelerates growth, burning the weed. That acceleration helps the Roundup work too.

Spray early morning when it is cool. Plants do not take up weed killer unless they are growing. Add a little Dawn dish soap if you want. That helps spread and stick the product.

Once a month should be all you need.

If you are hiring a company, they are likely not coming in the morning. But if you are unable to spray yourself, at least leave your sprayer out for them to use. They have to mix according to the label, and that may not be strong enough. And surely, they will not mix the two products.

Groundclear buy it at Lowes. The gallon size is ready to use and has a battery spray wand. It works flawlessly.

Vinegar
 

Spray a mixture of vinegar and water, plenty of diff. mixtures on internet, it’s cheap safe and effective

We had red lava rock, installed by the previous owner. I definitely agree that the weeds grow on top of the barrier underneath the rock. We replaced the lava rock with granite river rock, which produces much less dust for the weeds to sprout in. What I wonder is, would a pre-emergent herbicide like Preen be worthwhile to prevent the weeds from sprouting?

No mater what, no matter where you will have weeds. Nature hates a vacuum.
"White stone," it should be on top of weedblock fabric. The fabric can be torn, have gaps in it etc. Chemicals? May well damage your plants. I've used preen but it is only partly effective. It kills seeds but not weeds that spread by runners as in grass. Simple solution, when you see a weed, pull it.

We have pine straw. Nothing is perfect. Advantage of pine straw is that you can use tools on the weeds. You still end up pulling some. I would not put pine straw on top of pebbles.

And the MGs also will tell you that pine straw has a natural component in it that inhibits seed germination. It works! No weed barrier fabric necessary.

That’s what we use, not a fan of roundup. To the OP, don’t use pine straw or bark mulch, they will decompose over time and provide a growing environment for weeds making the problem worse, not better. Florida is a great place, but things like weeds, lightning storms, and pollen allergies come with the beautiful tropical weather. You can fight them, but you can’t beat them.

After you pull existing weeds use PREEN. 95% of The weeds are between the stone and the barrier not from the ground Since using PREEN on our stone we rarely ever see a weed. This all assumes your weed barrier is properly installed and intact and not full of holes were pre-existing plants have been removed. PREEN does not kill weeds it PREVENTS THEM so exiting weeds must be removed first.

The VINEGAR weed mixture workds GREAT !!!! You really have to wet the weeds and may have to spray a second time but ususally NOT needed.......YOU do however make sure that you mix it really good and correctly and spray when it is over 70 this helps. I mix it in a old week killer 1.5 gallon and transfer to the spray bottle. Its cheaper than buying ready mixes too !!! BTW the person that wrote about the grass I have artificial and looks like real grass !!!! In arizona BEST thing I ever did cuts back on water and BUGS

I have artificial grass in AZ best thing I ever did !!!! BUGS have gone away too !!! Looks real.......just depends on what youput in and how

Ground clear KILLS EVERYTHING. Just be careful around your grass cause it'll kill it real quick.

River Rock - NOT white stones
 

River rock are smooth and light brown in color. White stone reflects heat and kills plant around them. Both will have weed problems over time. Just spot spray when see some. Straw only lasts about six months and pine bark turns an ugly silver color after about a year. I have had river rock for over six years and am very satisfied with it.

Weed Killer
 

I have been using BioAdvanced weed & grass killer and BioAdvance brush killer for years up north and here in Fl. Works well but takes 3-5 days before you see any results (label says 1 day or less). Kills more kinds of weeds than others (by actual experience). Costs $10-$14. Mix with H2O, use with hand sprayer, easy. Definitely recommend.

Thanks for all the great advice. However, I forgot to mention that I am a snowbird and will be absent from this place for 6 months per year. We had some landscapers who do not come when the homeowners are not present and had to change them many times but as you may know, no-one seems to care about your yards as you do. They just want to get paid. Anyway, if there is a way ( Vinegar, weed/grass killer etc.. ) that could last 6 months during the summer, then I am willing and able to take care ( Pulling etc.. ) them myself when I am here..

Cheers!

I always laugh when I read posts like this. People plant all kinds of plants and use all kinds of decorative materials like stone, when there’s such an obvious answer to the question of what will “work” here in The Villages. The answer is simple…. USE WHAT THE DEVELOPER USES!

The Developer employs all kinds of experts who choose the plants, trees and bedding materials which work best in this area. They also regularly seek the advice of the University of Florida and consultants. And as you can see, their stuff “works”.

One thing you never see the Developer using is stone in their plant beds. Why?

— It’s expensive
— Because it gets hot, it uses much
more water to keep plants healthy.
— Over time it requires much more
maintenance.

I also dislike weed barriers. I have seen weed roots grow right through them. My wife like the cloth weed barriers and believes that they work. I remove them from any area of the yard that I am working on. I tend to like stone yards because they do not need lawn mowing. I prefer to plant shrubs, hedges, and trees and spend my energy pruning them instead of mowing, which I think is boring.
........If you have rocks and no one is complaining, then you are good, actually golden.