Question Bicyclists and Stop Signs
 

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

Based on my observations (not the law), it appears the stop signs are required for cars, suggestions for golf carts, and invisible to bikers?

The law states cyclists are required to obey ALL traffic laws just as drivers are required to, however you have observed the actual practice.

It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.

Dontcha know, cyclists are above petty traffic signs. Ya know what's fun, pull them over for running the stop sign and demand to see their driver's license. When they argue they don't have it because they are not driving, remind them they are operating a vehicle on city streets - requiring a driver's license. Then cite for same, and the stop sign violation (22450a).

Try to find the Lance Armstrong leader of the peloton, it is usually more effective.

Funny thing is, they don't find it nearly as amusing as I did.

It is just as well that those of us who drive cars and golf carts always come to a complete stop at Stop signs, or we wouldn't be in a position to be so critical of those who do not.

Failing to come to a complete stop is dangerous and against the law, whatever vehicle you are in charge of.

Retired LEO, they are subject to all vehicle codes. Have issued summonses to biker violators in situations where they blew off stop signs and traffic lights. Most complain about how hard(inconvenient) it is to stop and restart.

Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….

The same people are quick to complain when run over. Karma goes around

Indeed. Such an attitude does NOT win many friends.

It is not just TV. Bicyclists pretty much everywhere are perceived in large part as entitled snobs, several cuts above we ignorant peons tooling around in our smog-belching internal combustion engines.

Aren't bikers supposed to follow the rules of the road, including stop signs?

Maybe it's not an act and they ARE entitled? hmmmmm

Well, it takes a lot of effort for me to put my wittle foot on the brake pedal and then move said foot back to the accelerator pedal. Oh my, such problems in life.

They are proud to be Darwin Award candidates.

"Brake pedal"??? On a bike?

I believe they are sarcastically referring to braking while in a car or cart. If its too hard for the cyclists, its equally as hard for drivers....

Or it might be safest to not ride in large groups, so there is no need to ignore the law so as not to disrupt traffic flow?

Should see carts and bikes flying out of the path from Eisenhower rec ,

Studies have shown that, despite common sense, having bicycles treat stop signs as yield signs actually decreases the chances of bicycles being involved in accidents at intersections. That is why nine states have created laws to allow this. However, I do not believe Florida to be among them.

Bicycling friends of mine do feel that it is safer to bike in a group (a group is more visible than a single biker). To keep the group together sometimes means rolling through stop signs or going across traffic circles in a line. I don't know if I entirely agree with them on that.

Some also believe it is safer to ride on the roads than it is on "multi-modal" or "safety" paths. They claim that cart drivers on the multi-modal paths in The Villages are more prone to hit bikes than do cars. I don't know about that. I guess I'd rather be hit by a 1,000-pound golf cart doing 20 mph than a 3,000-4,000 pound car doing 35 mph (or faster outside of The Bubble).

I don't think bicyclers are inherently entitle snobs any more than I think all car and golf cart drivers in The Villages are distracted, drunk or too old to safely have licenses. I bicycle some, drive my cart around and definitely use my car and try to be careful when doing any of those and to see the point of view of all of those groups.

Unfortunately in the Villages, it is the golf cart drivers who are getting the Darwin awards. They hit signs, the entrance to tunnels, or run into cars. I think we need to be more concerned about golf cart safety in The Villages than worrying about bicycles not stopping at stop signs. Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this? I have seen golf cart drivers driving very fast. Many carts have been altered to exceed 20 mph. Many golf cart drivers are very reckless. Something needs to be done about the number of deaths in golf carts.

Back North I know someone who got a $50 ticket for not having a bell. lol.

Well, they were responding to a post about a former LEO citing "bicycle riders" for not stopping at stop signs, so...

The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.

Often people worry about "perceived threats" more than real threats. They worry about bicylists going through a stop sign and post on a forum and then they jump into a golf cart. Some have no seat belts and all have no helmets and yet head injuries and deaths occur every year. So which is the real threat?

Analysis of death and disability due to golf cart crashes in The Villages, Florida: 2011-2019 - PubMed

I think these drivers of motor vehicles are just upset because they know their reflexes aren't what they used to be, and they're not good enough drivers anymore to stop in time. Or they refuse to get new eyeglasses because the ones they paid "good money" for 5 years ago are just fine. Or their attention span is more limited than it used to be, because they're busy on a very important phone call and shouldn't have to watch the road.

I am not concerned because we don't own a golf cart.

I agree with VillageTinker. I come from Maryland, and bicycle riders there had to obey same laws as cars and large vehicles. Bikers should have slowed, stopped, looked, Then proceed with caution. I observed this rampant disregard traffic law by local bikers in The Villages.
IT WILL ONLY TAKE ONE HORRIBLE DEATH IN A COLLISION BEFORE THE BIKERS LEARN A LESSON:
(1) A MOTOR VEHICLE CANNOT STOP AS FAST AS A BIKE, AND
(2) HUMANS RARELY SURVIVE COLLISIONS WITH 4000 LBS. OF METAL

Did anyone say they were looking for Friends? That’s another subject🥴

Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.

For those who didn't or couldn't read the PubMed report here's the conclusion " During the observation period, a total of 875 GC-related crashes occurred, representing an average of 136 crashes, 65 hospitalizations, and 9 dead or disabled annually. Of all crashes, 48% resulted in hospitalization, severe trauma, or death. Of these, ejection occurred in 27%, hospitalization in 55%, and death or disability in 15% of crashes. Virtually all death and disability occurred within the setting of GC used on streets or road pathways. Death and disability, particularly due to ejection during GC crashes, occur at an alarming rate when GCs are used for local transportation. We believe public awareness and the use of 3-point seatbelts in these vehicles would significantly reduce death and disability caused by these crashes."

Makes a lot of sense to me.

In case no one has posted:

FL State Statute
316.2065
6(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine.

I agree with almost all of your points here, but the law regarding cyclists changed last year. In 2021, the governor signed a bill which, among other things, made it legal for groups of 10 or fewer cyclists to proceed through an intersection as a group, after a complete stop. This, according to advocacyadvance.org. Florida Has a New Bike Safety Law: Here's What You Need to Know - Advocacy Advance
What he declined to do was allow cyclists to do a 'rolling stop' - which means that they could treat stop signs as yield signs, NOT as an automatic right of way.

Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was the lead cyclist did not even hesitate at the stop sign. I would not know what full speed is. Is that not a function of each rider's ability ? It is fascinating to me the rush to defend the people that broke the law but no mention of the car driver being violated in the name of their safety. That corner is nearly a blind corner and those cyclists could have easily startled the car driver and result in who knows what ?

It’s not as simple as tapping your breaks in a car. Hit a cyclist and even if it completely not your fault, you’re in the middle of a law suit. Then good luck.

Smart states have laws that a stop sign is a yield sign for bikes. Florida is not one of those states. In any event, even if Florida had that law, the bikers were wrong because they did not yield.

Remember...this is a public forum. Written threats that turn to actions...even years later... will be used against you.

We are all mostly retired here. What is anyone in so much of a hurry that you target any group...walkers, cyclists, golf carts etc?!?!?!? Seriously!!!

There's not a single mode of travel we Villagers use in TV that doesn't include others doing repetitive, dumb stuff...on a frequent basis.

Even when the other party is at fault, we are mandated to avoid the accident using any practical and prudent means necessary to do such.

Be careful with your threats...idle hands are the devil's workshop!!!

Do you use a 3-point seatbelt in your cart? Have you ever seen a 3-point seatbelt on a cart (I haven't)? Do you suppose the authors of the study have any data on the effectiveness of 3-point seatbelts on carts to back up that conclusion?

9 dead or disabled annually seems high to me. We have been here over two years now and though I read the bad-news paper regularly I can't remember hearing about 18 serious accidents in that time. Perhaps they don't make the paper or perhaps something changed since the report was written.

Well, it actually is a pain. A most cyclers are usually clipped-in to the pedals and in a high gear when they get to a stop sign. They have to unclip, stop and then restart in a high gear which can be difficult especially on a hill. That being said, they are still required to obey all traffic laws just like any other vehicle, whether it's a pain or not, by planning ahead, gearing down, unclip early and stop. Now, let's get all the cars and golf carts to do the same and we will be in good shape.

As I posted on this thread, FL statute allows groups of up to 10 to go through stop signs as one unit. A post such as this comes across as a veil threat of potential road rage against a cyclist. Keep in mind that most cyclists these days have mounted cameras on either their bikes or their "cute" helmets. The cameras do let karma play out. Cyclists misbehaiving will be recorded as well. Relative to road rage, seems one would want to protect their freedom and retirement "nest egg" over a temporary inconvenience.

A group of cyclists uses hand signals to alert others what they are about to do. There is a signal for slow, stop, right turn, left turn, pothole, etc. I've ridden in organized rides where there are hundreds of cyclists and it works if everyone knows what they are doing. The problem is there those who don't and that can cause a problem.