Instant hot water heaters
 

Would like to install an instant hot water heater on my small (1150 sq. ft.) Patio Villa. Have you done this?
What were your results. Also considering a POU water heater.

We had one installed and love it. Takes a short time for the hot water to get to the bth faucet. Happy we did it.

My opinion, they are not instant, not even close. They are endless though, if that is important to you. We had no choice on our house. We solved the time element problem but it cost another $3k .

Our home came with one. Our shower is located at the most remote point from the heater. We run a solid two gallons before the water is hot enough to step into. It does save room in your garage as it mounts on the outside of your house.

We have learned to start the dishwasher or washing machine to clear the cold water in the pipes and "wake up" the tankless heater. We catch the first two gallons in a five gallon bucket and use it to flush toilets and water plants/grass.

Overall, I'm OK with it, but it's a bit annoying. I was always amazed when someone up north got one. I thought "that is going to take forever to warm up".

Also, you will need to set at least at 130 degrees. At the standard 125 the water will be too cold by the time it reaches you most remote point in your house.

Heater
 

Make and model of unit?

Why not just replace the tank type heater? Easier, cheaper, less maintenance, and more repairable. Have you checked into any additional electrical modifications you would need to make to your house?

Unless you can somehow run a return line for recirculating it will just be a tankless water heater. When our house was built we had a recirculating heater installed with the return line. It is instant through most of the house but takes about 20 seconds to get hot in our outside kitchen.

Replacing a Tank hot water heater with a tankless in a home can be expensive becasue if you are using electric a new electric line of higher capacity has to be installed or of you are using gas, the gas line has to be run to the tankless heater.

The only way to get hot water to your faucets, etc at the far side of the house is to install a circulating pump that's controlled by a timer and use a wifi plug and control it via google or alexa. The pump can be installed by DIY'er but i recommend getting a plummer or HVAC professional to do the install. There are several on the market designed just for this purpose. Once done you can purchase a Wifi plug where you can turn on and off the circulator pump when you need hot water. So for example if you want to take a showe you say something like "google turn on the water heater pump for 5 minutes" and you will have hot water by the time you get into the shower. When using this method the timer on the circulating pump needs to be set to ON all the time. This is the best way i've found to manage the circulating pump because using a timer to turn it on and off means you have to be using hot water every day around the same time.

Having never owned one, this is hearsay, but I recall years (a lot of years) ago that the tankless heaters did supply an endless supply of hot water but at a pressure significantly lower than the tank types. Maybe they've changed since then.

The house water pressure is going to be the same whether or not you are using the water heater. When you are using the shower, the hot and cold water are being mixed, so, if your house pressure is 60 psi, that is what you will get at the shower and the faucets.

If you remove the flow restrictor from the shower head.

What do you mean by an "instant hot water heater"? A tankless heater? What do you want to accomplish?

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Why? Water still has to get from the heater to the faucet. Consider a circulating pump if you want how water when you turn on the faucet. You should use a timer to turn on and off. The cold water line is the return route so you will lose cold water when the pump is on.

What I would buy would be an 'instant heater' right under each sink. One that runs on just 120 volts that is right there. And yes use the 1/4" piping. No wait and not the 60 amp breaker need.

You may be able to use the 120 volt outlet, but I think you may have trouble with the breaker tripping if you use any other appliance on that circuit. Even a small water heater draws 12 amps.

Yes, same same! My palm tree out front loves the 2 gallons of cold water it takes to reach the shower.

This is what you need
 

Instantaneous water heaters don’t move water unless, it has a cert pump built into the unit. This has a timer You set for usage or you can leave it on full time. I’ve been using one for years from TN south.

No return line needed!
 

No return line needed with this unit😉

No Wi-Fi
 

No Wi-Fi or government needed with this unit😉

No return
 

No return needed and easy install.

I thought the patio villas were 1,156 sq feet??

It would take you so many years to recoup your upfront costs to install one. They also require yearly maintenance to keep the warranty.

It's a total waste of time and money. The gas company offers great deals on replacement tanks installed and they will add $8 a month to your bill to pay it off interest-free.

30 posts and a lot of incorrect information.
A tankless/instant hot water is just that, no 60 gallon tank of water you heat all day long wether using it or not. The second you turn on a tankless/instant water heater it heats the water going thru the line, but all the water in the lines after the tankless water heater has to exit before the hot water is at the faucet.
If you want instant hot water at the faucet right when you turn it on, there are a couple ways to do this:

1) put a recirculating pump that circulates the hot water in the pipes so heated water is at the faucet

2) put separate tankless/instant hot water heaters in all the bathrooms/kitchen/laundry room so you don’t have any cold water in the lines at the faucet.

Some of the issues with tankless/instant hot water products, the most efficient are gas units. A little unit to get you instant hot water for tea or a bathroom faucet can be a small electric unit but a unit for a bathtub or shower, you need a bigger unit.

If what you’re hoping to accomplish is really “instant” hot water at your master shower (usually the furthest point) the moment you turn that hot water on, as many have stated, it ain’t going to happen.

We’re in our third home here in TV. First had a conventional 40 gal tank fired by natural gas.

Second home had a conventional 40 gal tank, electric.

In our current home, we have a natural gas fired tankless heater…..

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that having that “instant” tankless heater makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in the time it takes to get hot water to the furthest point in our home , the master shower.

It takes about 1 1/2 minutes of the hot water running before you can step into the shower……

I agree. I would add that another advantage to a tank type water heater is that almost any plumber or HVAC contractor can replace the tank within 24 hours, and sometimes the same day. But, if your tankless heater fails, there is no guarantee that you will not be without hot water for days or longer due to the lack of available parts.

Ohiobuckeye
 

You’ll probably be OK with one them in Florida. But I don’t think you’ll get hot water any faster, we’ve had all the instant hot water heaters. Myself I’ll go back to the ole reliable hot water tanks. Instant hot water might make your electric or gas bill go up slightly though.

1-1 1/2 Minutes to Heat? No Way....
 

How is it that my MB shower heats up in an acceptable amount of time, but my MB sink faucets can take up to 5 or more minutes to achieve a warm status? That's warm, not hot. I often wash up in the evenings without ever having to turn on cold water to mitigate the heat coming from the hot side. So frustrating.....

not sure you want to do this
 

you will be wasting a lot of water because they take 4-5 minutes for the hot water to ever get to the faucet in your shower. Wastes lots of water

Simple, Straight-Forward Advice
 

Tankless water heaters are fine. The delay in delivery of hot water is no different than with a standard water heater. Patio homes have small garages. Perhaps, you want to free up a few additional square feet of floor space by eliminating the standard tank and having an electric tankless heater mounted on the wall or a gas one mounted outside. The only other advantage of a tankless heater is that you will have a continuous supply of hot water at one temperature.

A circulating pump is a relatively simple solution to the problem of a delay in the delivery of hot water to remote faucets with either type of water heater. However, with the tankless heater you have to either employ the complicated solution of programing the tankless heater to automatically go on and off. Even then, this is an imperfect solution as the tankless heater will be running a great deal of the time and there will be "colder" spurts of water during the times the tankless heater is not running.

The better solution is to install a small "holding" tank of several gallons capacity for hot water between the tankless heater and the house's water system and add a circulating pump to the holding tank. The tankless heater turns on when the water in the holding tank falls to a certain temperature, just like a regular heater. Of course, there must be a drain line to remove water from the holding tank while it is being refilled by the tankless heater.

Personally, with the small number of people who will be living in most homes in The Villages, I see no need to have the endless supply of hot water from a tankless heater. It's one thing to have 2-4 people using a bath or shower vs 5-8 when we had children in the house.

I am more interested in having a minimal delay in the delivery of hot water throughout our house. This is accomplished by a small circulating pump. One poster displayed a photo of a Grundfos pump. That company sells an identical pump under the Watts name for $100 less. Both are available at Home Depot.

The Grundfos and Watts pumps do not require a return line as some posters have mentioned. In existing homes, it is nearly impossible to install return lines. The Grundfos and Watts pumps use an ingenious system which continuously circulates hot water throughout the house by using the cold water lines as return lines. This is possible by a special "manifold" installed at the faucet furthest from the hot water heater. That manifold is shown in the photo of the Grundfos system. It is a 12" long plastic tube with internal valving. When all the cold water faucets in the house are closed, the valves in the manifold direct the hot water being pushed by the circulating pump into the cold water line which then carries the water back to the water heater. When a cold water faucet anywhere in the house is open, the special valves in the manifold close and only cold water circulates in the cold water lines. With this system, you will have hot water at the faucet or shower furthest from the water heater in a second or two. The circulating pump uses little electricity, perhaps a penny or two worth per day.

Two things to know about circulating pumps. First, as hot water is being circulating in the cold water lines, there will be a delay in the delivery of cold water at the faucets, similar to the delay in the delivery of hot water when there is no circulating pump. That can only be avoided by having a dedicated return line for the hot water, something which is only feasible with new construction. I've found the delay in the delivery of cold water to be a small inconvenience in comparison to the convenience of having nearly instant hot water at the faucets and showers.

Second, in The Villages, most houses will require two of the special manifolds as the water lines are "split" after they enter the house. In our house, this required a manifold in the each bathroom. This is not a big deal as the second manifold only costs around $50.

The Watts pump and a second manifold, if needed, will cost around $275, the Grundfos an additional $100. They are an easy installation for anyone with a few basic tools and a willingness to lay on their backs while installing the manifold(s) under the sink(s). I did it, and, instead, wished I had hired a plumber and gone golfing.

Final advice. If you install the circulating pump, (and even if you don't) at the same time change the "sacrificial anode" in the hot water tank. This is an aluminum or magnesium rod in the tank which protects the tank from corrosion caused by the minor amount of electricity which continuously circulates through water systems. These should be replaced every 4-5 years as they, literally, dissolve in doing their job of protecting the water tank. Not one in 500 people know about these anodes or ever have them replaced. They cost less than $40 at Home Depot or on Amazon. They can be a "bear" to replace as you will need a heavy duty wrench or socket and, usually, a torch to heat the head of the anode as they always seem to be stuck in place. The anode will either be a large hex head in the top of the water heater near the inlet and outlet pipes or will part of the outlet pipe (in which case it is even harder to remove). I did this once several years ago. Since then, I have hired a plumber.

Heater
 

I currently have to run the water at the bathroom faucet for 30 sec. or more to get hot water. That’s a lot of wasted water. I could install a POU heater, but I’m not sure that would help. Was just curious if anyone else had done this.

I am a little rusty, but here is the math. The wasted water is the cold water that is sitting in the underground pipe that needs to travel through the shower head before the hot water arrives. Assume the pipe size is 3/4 inches in diameter and the water heater is 50 feet from the shower.

Area of the pipe cross-section is "Pi x radius squared" or 3.14 x 0.375 inches x 0.375 inches = 0.4416 square inches.
Volume is 50 feet x 12 inches x 0.4416 = 265 cubic inches.
In gallons, that is 0.00433 cubic inches per gallon x 265 = 1.15 gallons of wasted water

I invite anyone to check my math.

I'm talking about a Junior model. I've never seen one. But like a 1200 watt 120v unit that does smaller volumes of water on a single sink basis. So wait is seconds.

Doing the same investigating; time to replace the 16 yr old tank WH. Contacted Teco and found out the cost for an 8.4 GPM is $1600 over 5 years, (no interest), plus any additional gas line extension costs. Providing a dedicated 110 line will also be at the homeowner's expense.
I was surprised to learn that the unit will be placed outside to save venting costs, this is of course not an option where we came from. Outdoor units are more expensive but changing the venting through the roof is also costly.
Looking for some bids other than through the Teco approved plumber in case anyone has a referral. Also what brands and size do most use? Are there currently any tax/energy rebates available?

Installed a recirculating pump last December on hot water tank. Best $490 I ever spent. Instant hot water throughout house (new Courtyard Villa). Has timer to turn off at night or off switch while away. Took about 45 minutes to install by Mike Scott Plumbing.

Just saw this ...
https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog...742ddd315a.pdf
120 volt 12 amp 1440 watt
Home Depot $199
4 tank sizes

The tankless heaters are two stage based on flow demand. With just the shower running likely with flow restrictor it will take two minutes at least to get hot. Heater runs on low output. If you run two faucets in the bathroom, the heater kicks in to high output and you get hot water in 30-40 seconds. Plumber explained how it works.

Note that, even if you just have the regular tank type water heater, you can reduce the time to get hot water by more than half by just turning on a hot water faucet and the shower at the same time. It greatly increases the flow rate to the bathroom.

If you plan to use the existing electrical outlet in the bathroom to power one of these heaters, I think that you may have issues with the circuit breaker tripping whenever you try to use any other electrical device.