Go to College
 

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

Who is this post targeted at? 99% of the people reading this have already completed their careers. I doubt any of us are worried about our future job prospects.

This is the same message I have given my teenage grandchildren.

I admonished them to major in something useful, not underwater basket weaving or the like.

Before ‘Dirty Jobs,’ Mike Rowe Was Actually A Professional Opera Singer – Country Music Nation

So if everybody goes to college who is going to do the hard work?

Lots of jobs out there for people without college degrees that pay well. Not sure that everyone should go to college, some people not cut out to be students but have other god given abilities.

I was at Buc-ee's recently and they had a help wanted sign out. For low level positions, pay started at $17 an hour (for cashier, maintenance, grocery stocker) plus great benefits (3 Weeks Paid Time Off (USE IT, CASH IT, ROLL IT), Medical - Dental - Vision, and 401K with a 100% Match up to 6%). $17 an hour is $34,000 a year.

Assistant Manager was posted at $100,000+, Car Wash Manager was posted at $125,000+, and the General Manager was posted at $150,000-$225,000+.

For the management positions, I thought that they might require a college degree but for the Assistant General Manager position, their website says college Degree from college or university or 1-2 years or more related experience and/or training; or equivalent combination of education and experience in job related field.

A lot of my work colleagues had more than $100,000 in student debt and they were not making $100,000 a year!

Not a good idea for those that thrive on hard work first
and high paying job second.

Some advice I heard once:
"Find yourself a career that you like it so much, you would it for free".

Far fitch from the: "How much does it pay generation of 2023".

That was great advice in the late 1970's, when colleges and universities were affordable, you could get guaranteed student loans from the government and start paying monthly a full year after you graduated, and were allowed to defer your loan if you fell on hardships.

It was great, back when your earnings with that college degree, were typically enough to cover the cost of those loans (perhaps with a year or two deferral over the course of a 10-year loan).

Here's the costs for FSU:

$23,486 is the "full tuition" which most people don't ever have to pay. That's their MSRP. The "overcharge" they impose so they can pretend you're getting a great discount if you aren't paying full price.

The most anyone actually pays is $16,126, if their household income is over $110,001 per year.

If you're living in poverty and your household is pulling in less than $30,000/year you only have to pay $4,950 per year to attend, after you get all your aid and scholarships and grant money.

But wait - if your parents are only earning $30,000 per year - where is that $4950 coming from to pay the annual expense of going to college?

Even more - if you don't live near that college, you will need to pay for an apartment, or room/board in a dorm. That's extra. Who's paying for that? If you commute, who's buying you your car and paying for the insurance and gas? Remember if you come from poverty, it's not likely your parents have ever had enough money for an extra vehicle for their kid(s).

Compare with community college - I checked North Florida College, a 2-year school. Their "price that no one actually ever pays" is $12,754/year. If you earn more than $110,001 and get all the aid available, you only pay $6,401/year. If you live in poverty with household income under $30k, your cost after aid is only $1206/year. That - you can easily save up working part time weekends during your 4 years of high school at Burger King so your parents don't have to inconvenience themselves by going without such luxuries as - food - to pay for Johnny to get an Associates degree in something.

Excellent post.

Completely agree.

Totally agree. My DIL has a Bachelors and post grad degrees, no student loan because it was all scholarship. She makes 32K per year. She took 1 year off from college to work and save money. During that year, she made 75k waiting tables at a high end restaurant.

Interesting that kids will go get a degree, run up huge college loans in an area that has no market to offer degree holders.

Would be nice if universities would point this out to them early on.

If a college degree is a sure route to success and fortune, why do we hear so many stories of college graduates working in labor jobs or can't find a job at all. There are stories all over the place about college educated mid-level management people being laid off. Just like the market place can be over saturated with a certain product which causes the demand and price to fall, the same can be with too many college graduates. More grads than jobs.

My nephew makes $100K+ as an auto mechanic and has no school loan debt. It is very possible that had he gone to college and chose a degree with a future he would probably be making more money, but he had no desire for further education. If a person has a skill in a trade with a demand for workers, you can make good money.

What you study matters. For example, science, engineering, and math degrees may provide better employment opportunities than many liberal arts degrees. Regarding your mechanic nephew, he likely had some additional education in order to become a mechanic or he served some sort of apprenticeship. He may have some mechanic's certifications such as ASE, which required some education.

For me, undergraduate and graduate school were "trade schools" where I went to learn the hard science that I practiced for 40 years. There was essentially no access to the information other than universities. Also, without the university degrees, I would not be hired.

Back when I started elementary school in 1948 the relatively small grade school I attended drew from a diverse neighborhood, not so much racially (although I did learn to cuss in Spanish from a couple classmates) but socioeconomically. In particular I remember our teacher divided our reading out loud sessions into three groups, redbirds, bluebirds and yellowbirds. It was quite apparent which group comprised the best and which the worst readers. By third grade the differences in reading skill levels astonished me. Some could barely read "Run Spot Run" whereas others read at the 8th grade level and possibly beyond. I remember at least once being lined up according to reading skill level and our teacher announcing standardized test results, something that would never happen today - shudder.

It seems to me a track system such as in Germany produces the best all around results.

"Although most Germans claim to be against elitism and favoring any social class, their entire educational system is basically a three-class system that divides students into three different tracks: (1) Gymnasium for bright students headed for college, (2) Realschule for the next step down, kids headed for average or better white-collar positions, and (3) Hauptschule for the bottom tier, generally aimed at the trades and blue-collar jobs. By the age of 10 most pupils in Germany have been put on one of these three educational tracks. But it has become easier to switch tracks, and this is now more common in Germany than it used to be."

https://www.german-way.com/history-a...school-system/

Just another Troll post. Consider the source.

Starbucks locations throughout the country are overflowing with baristas who have college degrees.

Meanwhile, I know people who attended various trade schools (or apprenticed at an established company), and made $75k+ 1st year.

This original post is very outdated. I know many people that went to college and majored in social studies and all they could get is an unemployment check so they can pay their student loan. I know more people that didn’t go to a 4 year college or did a trade and make anywhere from $100k to $1M a year. I know people that install car stereos that make over $100k a year.
What’s more important than going to college is somebody that wants to work, put in the effort to keep learning on the job to get better and the ability to change with the times so your skills don’t get outdated. They don’t teach these traits in colleges.

I haven't a single educational qualification, but necessity at a young age taught me hard work keeps a table with food.
Stuck with that ethos all my working life.
My wife had the brains, I supplied the brawn.
Gave us a wonderful life and retirement.

My advice: develop some marketable skill that can keep you consistently employed and on an upward path over a long timeline, & don't be afraid to switch or blend career paths if something better presents. Colleges & trade schools are great, but don't overlook other options like the military or trade union apprentice programs. Remember that you will become older & that health issues or injuries are more likely to limit or end a more physically demanding job, so always have a fallback plan. Being an unskilled laborer for more than a short time is a lousy plan - it's a hard life & is getting harder in this country. Also, God willing, most young people today will live to be retired. A career that comes with a pension is not to be sneezed at.

Or maybe their parents should help guide them to a career and associates degree for a viable field of study.

A growing trend of people do not believe in the _value_ of a college degree that university is worth it. A recent survey shows 56% of people do not believe it is worth the cost. The skepticism is strongest in 18-34 year olds. Reasons are complicated. And things are different now compared to when we went to university decades ago; so our experience may have little relevance to what is occurring now. Regardless of your opinion, these current widespread beliefs in younger people will cause significant changes in higher education (e.g., declining enrollment and funding) and employer hiring (e.g., no college degree required) in years to come.

The plot here is derived from surveys of the Wall Street Journal and NORC at the University of Chicago.

Americans Are Losing Faith in College Education, WSJ-NORC Poll Finds - WSJ

And these costs do not include the opportunity cost of time.

My home state ha FREE tuition to tech schools for high school graduates. I know people who have gone and become a full range of jobs - hospital machine mechanics, MRI techs, dental hygienist, LPN, welders- all ended up making more than I did with my four year degree as a teacher and I made more than my friend the four year degree social worker. None of the tech people had deal with irate people or take work home after hours or on weekends. We need all levels of education and all types of skills. There is a lot to be said if you you enjoy your job you never have to go to work.

Your comments have some merit , however in my opinion college is not the total answer. A degree does not guarantee a career you may be happy in ,more importantly is a lifelong occupation you enjoy when it is fun to go to work.

It's interesting that 4 of the 5 jobs you cited are in the medical field, where medical insurance drives up the cost of everything. But, in the medical field, those with a college degree make more money than the technicians.

Totally disagree

I Disagree
 

I respectfully disagree. Less than half of the Americans go to college and end up with a 4-year degree. While there is nothing wrong with college, a blanket statement saying that everyone one should go is doing a disservice. My kids’ high school counselors made this mistake too.

Trades
 

Next time your toilet doesn't flush call your college graduate. The education system in this country is mostly a total failure. What happened to "comprehensive " high schools? Those Phds in education sure know how to screw things up. They are not much better then the law school mill graduates.

As a retired university professor, I would say that while you are close to right in saying that at some schools (including mine), [almost] anyone can get a degree, despite a lack of intelligence, people like that often get what they deserve—low level jobs suitable for their ability that may make much less money than does a good plumber or electrician. A college degree DOES NOT guarantee a good job or a high salary. Lots of college grads end up waiting tables and working on landscaping crews. One of my sons—smart, with mostly A grades—works in a warehouse. I’d say that kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives should stay out of college until they do. And if they want to go to college just to get a diploma, ideally without learning anything, they don’t deserve to go to college.

Actually, I’d rather like to see a required military or service commitment of a couple years for both young men and women after they finish high school, as is done in Israel. When they get out, they are more likely to know what they do or don’t want to do with their lives.

Also, kids like that aren’t likely to do well in the trades, either. A lot of what people do in trades takes a lot of intelligence, analytical ability, math ability, reading ability.

I would just point out that, when most people have a toilet that won't flush, they don't call a college graduate, but they also don't call a plumber. Usually, they fix it themselves, call a handyman, or ask for advice on TOTV.

Thanks. I agree that a college degree does not guarantee that you will get a good job. My career was in the Federal Government where more than 80 percent of the work is done by less than 20 percent of the employees. I knew a lot of really dumb people who made well over $100K only because they had a college degree. I think that is also true for a lot of smaller Governments and large organizations. I don't agree that young people who don't know what they want to do with their lives should stay out of college. At least they will get a degree that may be useful at some point in the future.

Not everybody
 

There are people that college isn't a good fit for but a trade, or sales or starting a company is a great fit. If they can afford a life style and retirement they like it's better for them.

I can't tell you how many college degrees I have run into doing a job where a degree is not needed - wasn't worth it for them

I am a retired industrial education teacher and high school principal. We had a recruiter from a tech school at our school several times a year just like the colleges. He researched the readily available federal labor statistics and would show kids how less than 2 years of post high school technical training would provide them a lifetime income greater than 75% of all college grads. He just presented facts.
His presentation was outstanding. His major in college was DRAMA. He always exclaimed he performed daily in front of high school students.

Very sad to label someone by their intellectual level especially at such an early age. That is grooming them into a certain way of life. There are amazingly intelligent people who don’t do well in school. And there are not so intelligent people who do well at an early age. As a child therapist I can tell you that there are many reasons why an intelligent person may not do well academically. It’s a sad state of affairs when Academics is the sole guide for defining intelligence level.

My spouse was successful as a self-employed, highly skilled electrician who was able to keep needed union benefits when he left employment with a contractor. Going self-employed and working hard enabled his retirement at age 55. He took a few college classes for self-enrichment along the way but his fulfillment was enjoying doing electrical work, ranging from installing giant printing presses to ceiling fans for homeowners. Doesn't feel cheated or inferior by not having a college degree in the least.

College
 

My son got a 5 year degree in computer engineering, found a great job immediately, makes a lot more than I ever earned, works remotely, moved here with us, buying a new home in July. College worked well for him. Peace!!

I’ve employed people with PHD’s, Master degrees and BS degrees. More than half lacked common sense. They lasted less than a month. I, as a HS graduate (bottom of my class as I was bored with school), along with a few credit hours of college, built a small successful contracting company with many employees with with only a HS education or GED. We all made good money. Common sense is tantamount to higher education.

You need to get a degree so you can pay the craftsman to do the work for you....( I'll bet he makes as much as you do )

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with either. Depends on the person and what their goals are.
However, I have seen people go to college for years to get their degree only to not be able to get a job using their degree.
I have never seen anybody go to a trade, school and graduate trade school without going to work in the trade they went to school for.
For what it’s worth I have no college and went into the trades.