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Lithium Ion battery fire on cargo ship again, prevented from docking in Alaska
Cargo ship carrying burning lithium-ion batteries reaches Alaska, but kept offshore | AP News
Another vessel WAS on fire due to lithium ion battery fire while transporting EV's ...good news fire is out, but Alaska is refusing to allow it to dock...count on insurance companies raising rates >> Lithium-ion Battery Fire in Cargo Ship's Hold Is Out, Coast Guard Says After lithium-ion batteries burned in a large cargo ship's hold for a number of days, the U.S. Coast Guard said late Saturday that the fire was out and directed the ship to anchor near Dutch Harbor, Alaska. The 19 crew members of the ship, Genius Star XI, were uninjured and technicians from the Salvage and Marine Firefighting team remain onboard to ensure the fire doesn't return, according to a Coast Guard press release. “This protected anchorage ... will allow the vessel to remain stable, minimizing risk of any re-flash of the fire as we continue our response," Capt. Chris Culpepper said in the press release, which said an investigation into the fire's origins will begin once response efforts wrap up. Bloomberg - Are you a robot? |
It’s going to happen more and more until someone comes up with an effective way to put these fires out without tens of thousands of gallons of water.
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Using water to extinguish a lithium battery fire may seem like a logical solution, but it can actually make the situation much worse. When water comes into contact with a lithium battery fire, several dangerous reactions can occur. Google it for more. We had a fire at electric storage station up north this summer and the fire could not be extinguished and literally had to burn itself out over several days
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Best way to extinguish a lithium fire is to grab a 6 pack, run far away upwind, and sip and watch. Wait, those things take a long time to go out, better grab a 12 pack and a sleeping bag.
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Water reacts with lithium therefore is a poor choice for putting out the fire. Systems need to be developed that will rapidly coat the fire with salt (sodium chloride)or sand. Basically, you need to remove oxygen or water from reaching the fire.
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which is why i won't buy a lithium ion battery golf cart. . . .
battery technology is not safe enough yet |
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OP chumming the water with another lithium fire tale.
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It seems lithium battery fires are self-sustaining, the fire actually generates enough oxygen to keep itself burning. Smothering it to keep external oxygen away won't stop it and insulating it with a heavy layer of sand would keep heat in and help keep the fire burning. One of the serious problems with lithium battery fires is "thermal runaway." One cell becomes damaged and ignites which generates enough heat to damage the next cell and cause it to ignite. The only way to stop this is to remove the heat to keep the next cell from igniting. This is where water is useful. A problem with electric car fires is the compartment that protects the batteries from damage is designed to be waterproof. It is difficult to get water onto the batteries because the car is designed to prevent water from reaching the batteries. Tens of thousands of gallons of water are needed because so little of the water actually reaches the batteries themselves. A firefighting tool has been designed that may help. This tool from an Austrian company punctures the battery compartment and delivers water directly to the batteries. The claim is it will take only 1,000 to 2,000 gallons to cool the batteries and stop the fire. I haven't seen any articles about it being used in practice yet. |
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distraction for the winter doldrums with technology hate porn, or helping out the web site owner with content for advertisers for web page views. . |
EV sales in North America "only" increased by about 50% in 2023 (from 2022), down from about a 100% increase in 2022 (from 2021). The percentage increase in sales each year will drop as sales continue to grow. That is the nature of a disruptive technology on an "S" curve. For example, once you have 50% of the market it becomes difficult to increase sales by more than 10-20% per year. About 8% of car sales in 2023 were EVs. This figure may very well grow to 50% of car sales by 2030. Buy one or don't buy one but sales will continue to grow.
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Flaming the fear of lithium battery fires!
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The only real way to put out a lithium fire is with super-cold salt water...Could they not find any? :)
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The NTSB website has an interesting article (Safety Risks to Emergency Responders from Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles) on the dangers that lithium-ion battery fires can pose to first responders, which of course means that uneducated consumers experiencing such a fire are a whole lot more at-risk than assumedly-trained first responders. There is a very real risk of dangerous or even deadly electric shock to those dealing with the fire, as well as something that the article terms "thermal runaway", where the process of combustion of the battery produces situations and conditions that exacerbate the danger to the area. The Miami Herald ran an article this morning dealing with this subject (Electric Vehicles and the Untold Secret: Are They Actually Worse For The Environment and More Dangerous Than Gas?). One of the dangers is that a burning lithium-ion battery produces hydrogen gas at a rapid rate, which is itself extremely flammable (remember the Hindenburg). Hydrogen gas is rated as a 4 on the NFPA 704's flammability scale, which is the highest rating possible, because it can combust in even small amounts of ordinary air. But the dangers to people dealing with a lithium-ion battery is only part of the story. The Miami Herald article pointed several things that I was completely unaware of. First, the environmental impact of the mining for battery materials. Earth.org points this out: "the extraction methods for lithium and cobalt can be very energy intensive – leading to air and water pollution, land degradation, and potential for groundwater contamination". But that is not the only environmental danger. The Herald article also points out that the manufacture of lithium-ion batteries itself is a large contributor of pollution due to the use of fossil fuels (coal and natural gas). But the danger to the environment doesn't stop with the manufacture of the batteries. It takes 100 years for a lithium-ion battery to decompose after use, releasing toxic substances into the environment all the while. Seems as if our Cinderella needs a little more cleaning up before the big ball. |
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“Further, the temperatures of fires that involve internal combustion engines can reach 1,500 degrees F; temperatures of fires that involve EVs can reach 4,500 degrees F and hotter. The temperature of an EV fire is a major concern for parking garages. When concrete is exposed to temperatures that are hotter than 212 degrees F, the moisture in concrete turns to steam. If the temperature rises more rapidly than the steam can escape through the concrete matrix, the rising pressures exceed the strength of the concrete, and it begins to spall. This spalling can be explosive in extreme cases and can cause major damage, including collapse.” |
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Some will be waiting for that catastrophic EV fire to say, "I told you so." Others will feel that the millions(?) of vehicles on the road that have never caused any damage, catastrophic or otherwise, are evidence that the technology is safe. |
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My wife’s client just had a drill battery catch fire while charging. He wasn’t home but luckily it didn’t burn the house down. I now take my batteries off the charger once they are done charging.
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And Several Million more
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the fuel type of the car in this case does not exonerate the battery, though still waiting on the fire report, which mostly likely won't be published but will have to be retrieved. |
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From one article: “We don’t believe it was an electric vehicle,” Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said. “It’s believed to be diesel-powered, at this stage all subject to verification.”I believe in another thread I posted information that the engine choices for a Range Rover hybrid do not include diesel. Therefore, being a diesel-fueled Range Rover exonerates lithium auto batteries. Now, if you are suggesting that lead acid batteries present an unacceptable risk of fire.... |
[QUOTE=Bill14564;2287195]Neither gasoline nor lithium batteries spontaneously combust either. Clearly, there was some form of ignition.
Minimize the Risk of Lithium-Ion Battery Spontaneously Combust As the above mention, if the battery is exposed to high temperature, or the battery or internal components are damaged, the risk of fire or explosion will increase. There are several ways you can reduce the risk of an accident.Sometimes, lithium car battery can also play an important role. Avoid storage at high temperatures. When the battery is close to the heat source, the flammable electrolyte inside the deep cycle battery will cause a fire. The battery is easy to overheat and cause electrolyte evaporation. The evaporation produces combustible steam, and if the temperatures continues to rise, these steam will ignite. Do not put the batteries in hot vehicles. Don’t let the blanket cover the notebook computer.Sometimes, the lithium battery price is also a very important factor. |
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All auto batteries are capable of creating a fire, the different battery types each has different scenarios under which they will start to burn. for most if not all batteries, the size, intensity and duration of the fire is directly proportional to the size of the battery. |
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But lead-acid batteries themselves don't burn. They merely cause gas (hydrogen) that does. A lead-acid battery is just that: lead, an electrolyte (sulfuric acid) and a plastic housing. Lead and acid don't themselves burn. I suppose the battery case could, but as far as I know that is just plastic that is impervious to sulfuric acid. Lithium-ion batteries on the other hand are far more dangerous if ignited. For one thing they contain lithium, a lot of lithium (11% of the total battery composition is lithium) and any high-school sophomore knows that putting pure lithium in water can have some memorable results. I know. We tried it, tossing a small piece of lithium ribbon into a lab sinkful of water. Quite the kaboom. Got into a little hot water for that trick but no permanent damage was done. They also contain cobalt (5%-10%) and while solid cobalt isn't combustible, finely divided cobalt can spontaneously combust when exposed to air. Finally, a lead-acid battery produces only one combustible substance: hydrogen. A lithium-ion battery on the other hand, when burning, produces a gas mixture generated and released which "is flammable, consisting of various mixtures of hydrogen, carbon-monoxide, carbon-dioxide and various hydrocarbons including methane and propane. Ignition of these gases result in fire and explosion scenarios that pose a significant risk to surrounding life and property." (osti.gov) |
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