They used to build executive courses a lot faster
 

I have been trying to find out when the executive courses were opened for play. I believe the following information is accurate.

From 1987 until 2019, the biggest gap between opening a new executive course was three years - which was between 1990 and 1993. There were several two year gaps between openings. As things now stand, the Villages has not opened an executive (with the exception of two Pitch & Putts) since 2019 which is a five year gap. The fewest courses built in a five year period was three courses - and the most that were built in any five year period was thirteen courses. I am aware that more courses are being built near Eastport but that doesn't explain the five year gap.

Silver Lake 1987
Hill Top 1988
Chula Vista 1990
Mira Mesa 1993
De La Vista 1995
El Diablo 1997
El Santiago 1998
Hawkes Bay 1999
Saddlebrook 1999
Briarwood 2001
Walnut Grove 2001
Churchill 2003
Oakleigh 2003
Pimlico 2003
Belmont 2004
Heron 2004
Pelican 2004
Amberwood 2005
Bacall 2005
Bogart 2005
Roosevelt 2007
Sandhill 2007
Truman 2007
Turtle Mound 2007
Bonita Pass 2009
Redfish Run 2009
Yankee Clipper 2009
Tarpon Boil 2010
Southern Star 2011
Palmetto 2012
Mangrove 2013
Sweetgum 2013
Escambia 2015
Okeechobee 2015
Sarasota 2015
Volusia 2015
Gray Fox 2017
Red Fox 2017
Loblolly 2018
Longleaf 2018
Lowlands 2019

I’m going to start looking for somewhere that is more focused on golf than the worlds largest golf community that is currently working on 3 more championships and 5 more executives as we speak, simultaneously with a few other world class projects.

What would an explanation do for you?

Really, more that 25% of the land currently in work is golf courses, why build all those stupid houses.

Good information, it goes a long way towards explaining why it’s way more difficult to get t times currently than when we bought our Villages home in 2015. The amount of executive holes per rooftop has gotten seriously diluted over the last few years. The current executives being built aren’t going to fix the problem, just slow down the rate of dilution.

IMO villages has plenty of golf, what happens when you advertise for free some expect to be able to play from daylight to dark everyday. When they can’t they whine.

Did something happen in early 2020 that might have impeded planning and construction?

No matter what, COVID impacted supply chains and labor costs. TV did a great job of pivoting, but it took time and effort.
A large number of golf courses (both exec and champ) will be online within the year.

If something happened in early 2020, it didn't affect building houses! The supply chain seemed to work ok for houses.

If you have any information that there were plans to build a number of courses in 2020-2023 but that they couldn't, please post it. I have looked at old videos and archived Continuing the Dream inserts and I did not see anything about golf courses that were planned but weren't built because of something that happened in early 2020.

Not really agents were calling their customers asking if they would like to sell their houses, because there wasn’t an inventory. Building didn’t come to a standstill, but home’s couldn’t be finished because appliances weren’t available. Yes that really was an issue our house up north and in TV both refrigerators died. 18 months using a dorm fridge.

Houses had mixed appliances certain finished work couldn’t be completed. So yep houses were being built, but if you were good with closing an unfinished house it was yours. If you were custom build you had choice of A or B sometimes just B.

Even entry doors weren’t available. Shingles were narrowed to less than 6 . During this time we put one of our investment homes on the market. Sold before it went fully live. Interest rates were so low the second a house went on the market it was sold.

Rec centers, rec centers, and common amenities were on the bottom of the list.

One would know this if you were in the housing market. Bidding wars were common, and houses that you wouldn’t even walk in the door were being sold because there wasn’t anything else. During 2020-2021 it was the lowest inventory of new or preowned on hand in TV. Lots of dirt being pushed, but end completed product was few and far between.

New home sales
2018 2134
2019 2429
2020 2452
2021 4004
2022 3923
2023 3029

The last executive course was built in 2019. Since that time, 13,408 new homes were sold.

From 2003 to 2006, the Villages sold 15,510 new homes but also built 9 executive courses.

Data
 

Fascinating data! Thanks for sharing.

I'm thinking that five new executives "might" open up a significant number of tee times to the north during busy season. Don't think I'd heard that "five" number before. Encouraging.

Executive Golf Courses
 

I suspect that there are more factors in the design and location of golf courses than just "gee, put one there". The shape of some of the newer Villages seem to be too narrow e.g. St Johns, Richmond, "new" De Luna, Newell, Lake Denham and Dabney.

However, the area south of Monarch Grove, down to Eastport, is substantially wider and can accommodate more. Even wider, still, is the area from 470, south to CR 48, between 471 and the Turnpike. I wonder how many golf courses are on the drawing board for that area...

You left out 54 holes of Pitch and Putt.

That's a lot of tee times that divert a significant number of golfers away from the Exec's.

In some cases, the casual golfers you don't want to play behind :)

Does anyone actually use the Pitch and Putts?

True 2452 new homes in 2020, the 45 plus we looked at didn’t have all the appliances, some no microwave or dishwasher, if there was a stove it wasn’t the same brand as the fridge. I am sure you noticed the same when you were looking at new houses during 2020-2022.

Cabinets, interior and exterior doors, as well as windows, came from different manufacturers, were definitely not like previous homes. Lots of people were desperate to buy during the pandemic, and bought those homes waiting for items, or a mix match of appliances. Many were literally fleeing closed states.

Golf course dirt was being moved, because it is done before homes, opening probably not top on the list.

So golf was in place of the courses that developer chose to built just not opened. Was that due to lack of staff, or holding off because developers can.

So is your complaint about should have been more courses built because of number of homes, or delay of opening day dates, for the course to be played. Either way, not going to change the developers decision or outcome

We don't need more golf courses. What we need is more TOTV threads about how many golf courses there are and how fast they are built.

Interesting and informative time line. Food for thought about the Fenney to Eastport plan.

Would be interesting to add to these numbers which generation of developers had them built.

Morse et al building houses to meet a retirement lifestyle "selling the dream" golf carts and free golf for retirees

vs

selling as many homes as possible and throwing in token lifestyle ammenities under the guides of people can share the "selling the dream" free ammenities of the past freeing up third generaton developers (or more) to instead build 5 championship courses for the public to use.

Buy the cry has been lack of championship courses in the south, that mostly residents use because they don’t play Free golf, and the small percentage of open to the public guests.

I can’t many imagine outside people come to play championship in TV, the rates alone are outrageous, for non resident.
The main concern is instead of building more existing execs, the pitch and puts are being built.

Numbers don’t lie.
Great job of pulling together data on growth of The Villages.
As Asianthree pointed out, COVID greatly affected the complexity of building homes. But they did build and they did sell.
Golf courses. We all know that the Morse family are long term planners. They buy land decades ahead.
I’ve never heard the timeline on planning a Village. I would guess they’d have to start at least 3 years ahead.
So the 2020-2022 land useage was planned 2017-2019. COVID had no effect at all on their decision making on golf courses.
I’ve lived here since ‘09. When I look at this data, what jumps out at me is Gary Morse. I believe the greatest growth of golf courses occurred when he was at the helm.
It would be interesting to take this same chart and layer in “Who’s the Boss?” Harold, Gary, or the third generation ?

Love The Villages
 

They do need to do a better job and keep up with the home growth compared to golf holes finished and not pitch and putts !!

And I also didn't count the four putting courses - Fenney, Clifton Cove, First Responders and Jubilee Putting courses. That would be another 72 holes!

They sure built a lot of houses in that time frame! I don't know where to get the info, but would like to see the number of Executive golf courses PER CAPITA for the last 20 years.

I can see Marshview right out my front window. I'd say 30% of the time it's not being used.

More TOTV threads definitely won’t make it any easier to get a t-time. On the other hand, more golf courses certainly wouldn’t hurt.

Somebody must, they are actually including pitch and puts in the weekly hole in one’s published in the Daily Sun sports section. Talk about discrediting the accomplishment, next thing ya know they will be including hole on one’s at the putting courses.

I suspect there is some play from people who have been denied their tee time request. I play the pitch and putts when this happens, which is fairly often this time of year.

:bigbow:


On the other, other hand.............More golf courses will certainly cut down on ToTV threads.

:icon_wink:

In reality, no one owes anyone an explanation.

It is what it is, deal with it !!

Not really, more golf courses would increase the number of threads complaining about the executive course conditions.

There always seems to be spots open up north.
 

We play weekly in a group with 24 players (six foursomes). We put in most every course when we make our reservations. I don't know if it's because there are more courses up north, or there are less people playing them but it seems that 90% of the courses we qualify for are up north.... Way up north.

Ad compared to one from the front tees at Pimlico # 7 (64 yards)?????

Pitch & Putt, Putting courses, coming next - miniature golf!

I would guess that at least some golfers in the northern sections are golfing less or not at all once they reach a certain age which might explain more slots becoming available there.

South of 44 it's the opposite issue. The average age is certainly under 60 and many of the golfers are golfing the Executives almost every day which makes getting tee off times on courses like Lowlands very challenging.

The developers are way behind the demand curve for golf courses!!! It’s nearly impossible to get desirable tee times.

That was my previous point, it would seem they want paying golf customers.

Clermont is building a huge sports related housing development. Soon T V will be even closer to Clermont. "If you build it they will come" type of philosophy. Why put in 9 short holes for free use by residents when you can at least attempt to have outsiders come and pay for 18?

Yes, I wonder what generation of family members the T V developers are on now? It would seem the business model is changing relative to free executive golf courses. So yep, tee times are up north where all the old people are. Have to laugh at that comment...

Buy where the lifestyle best suits your "dream". I'm under 60 and decided to sell my house S of 44 because I like "up north" better.

I agree. The real problem is that I doubt you can build enough golf courses to keep up with the number of houses being built. My wife and I are looking at outside-the-villages for 18 because of the doubling of the green fees for snow birds. It is the price of progress. The executives are still a good deal if you want to use your irons and play a quick 9. You just have to be able to go with what you can get with the lottery.

That is the key. If restaurants are full between 5pm and 7pm, does that mean that we need more restaurants? Just to let then sit empty at 4pm and 8pm?

So you found out the secret mentality of some Residents

“NOT” enough…grocery..retail..restaurants, and FREE Golf courses.
Their thinking is “Anything I Want to Do needs to Be Available when I Choose”

I Shouldn’t Have to Wait in lines in grocery or retailers.
Wait for a table in a restaurant and waitstaff for only my needs
Any Executive (FREE) needs to be available When I Want to play.

Everyone else should stay at home so MY needs are met.

My guess is some didn’t share well with others, as a child or came from a privileged life

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: today plenty of prime tee time available..but I forgot the few also want perfect weather.

:bigbow: