Mikey Lee
 

With all the comments about the lack of Executive golf south of 44 why didn't they build an Executive course instead of pitch-n-putt and putt-n-play at Mickey Lee

Good question. Why did they build Richmond Pitch & Putt instead of an executive?

Because they don't read ToTV?? :loco:

Because the planning phase was completed 10 years ago??? :oops:

Or, why are all of the Pitch & Putts newly built & why are the 4 putting courses newly built?

That way, the Villages can claim that they have 108 more golf holes!

Why was their 10 year planning so much better in previous years?

Golf participation was declining 10, 15 years ago for the first time in 20, 25 years.

Their trying to draw the poor players away from the real courses ;-)

An executive or championship course do me no good. I love the pitch and putt and you should too, they keep me off the real courses. Imagine having a hack in front of you slowing you down, dropping beer cans and peeing in the bushes. We need a few more pitch and pick putts and a few less executive/ championship courses.

Hopefully the decision makers got the message loud and clear when Silver Lake was renovated. A resident survey was taken to determine 1) Renovate the existing course and keep it an Executive. 2) Convert it to a newly renovated/built pitch and put.

The results showed an overwhelming desire among residents to keep it as an Executive course, in an area with no pitch and puts. It appeared obvious that a conversion to a pitch and put was favored by the decision makers, but they yielded to the residents overwhelming sentiment. Unfortunately, residents desires don't appear to be requested/considered when planning new golf build out plans in the southern area.

Whoever was in charge of the planning phase 10 years ago appears to have gotten it wrong, at least from the perspective of golfing residents.

Because you can build more houses on the available land and still claim "golf course views".

It is true that, nationwide, total participation in golf started decreasing about 15-20 years ago. However, most of the decline was with millennials and the two biggest factors were that golf took too much time and that it was too expensive.

The Villages is unique in that most people are retired so time is not a factor and since golf is free for life, cost is not a factor. Therefore, the two biggest factors don’t apply here.

In addition, the Villages is one of the fastest growing areas of the country.

If you had a normal sized city with average population growth, you would have been wise not to add additional golf courses in the past 15-20 years as they would be underutilized today.

But the Villages is unlike the rest of the country.

And if you advertised yourself as the golf capital of the world and one of your top marketing features was “free golf for life,” and you were the fastest growing area in the country, you would want to build more courses to keep up with demand and population growth.

"Who pays the piper, calls the tune!"

Be thankful for the pitch and putts....you don't want many of us who play them to be clogging up play on executives if they didn't exist. And for people moving to The Villages who have never played golf, they are the perfect introduction to the game.

The best thing about Pitch and Putt is the fact that they are walked. More golfers should give them a try, especially those who get little or no exercise. A fun healthy activity in our retirement years is a good thing.

Actually, the millennials are more active than the groups around them:
Generation Swing
Different generations have their take on the game:

In 2021, 4% of Gen Z Americans (born between 1995-2012) picked up a club and said they played golf. For Millennial Americans (born between 1980-1994), 12% embraced the sport in 2021. As for Generation X Americans (born between 1965-1979), 7% joined the ranks of golf enthusiasts in 2021.

Each of these groups are their future......boomers are dying. :cryin2:

Good thing............their advertising is still true. Golf Cap of World & Free golf for life.

So true.

They were built so you could always find a tee time.

Some of the Level 1 Exec's are close to being P&P courses but you can use your golf cart.

Simple answer:

Because they didn't have enough land for an Executive course on those areas...

The southern area along Morse/Meggison is VERY narrow and with the Southern Oaks course taking up so much space, there simple wasn't enough land for more executives.

The area with more land mass (Marsh Bend, Fenney, De Luna) has what 5 Executive courses?

Now that they're expanding west and south of the Turnpike, there are huge tracts of land that can handle more golf courses. Three (a championship, an Executive and a Pitch & Putt) are scheduled to open later this year, with more already scheduled or under construction...

They also probably want enough space to have high profit premium golf course view lots around the course that add $250K+ to the purchase price of a home.

Why wouldn't they?

They are good for new golfers to practice on, instead of using the executive courses.

Just reading the replys. A level one executive course would have been perfect at Mickey Lee. Similar to Turtle Mound or Sarasota

Except, it wouldn't fit...

Turtle mound is more than twice the yardage the the front 9 of Mickey Lee...

I agree. Plenty of room for nine holes - if they had wanted to do it. Play 1 red box to green 2; 3-4; 5-6; etc. Plenty of room for nine holes -especially if you use the land for the putting course.

Then why didn't they put one in? It would have many many more people happy, right?

Maybe, just maybe it was because they would need more than TWICE as much land to build an executive course?

Is that bad? Why?
So, build it they will come.

I heard they got a HUGE premium for the lots around Mickeylee P&P. Especially the lots on the west side of the course.
Same for all the lots around Richmond P&P - I heard it was a $400,000 premium on the west and south side.

They need enough room for the golf course PLUS land for homes with a view around the course.

This was not possible north of the Turpike.

Exactly, those cumulative premiums may be enough to finance the construction of the course.

Richmond is one example where an executive course absolutely would not fit in that small area. It probably is under half the size of most executive courses plus they were constrained on three sides on what could be built there (turnpike, golf cart bridge, Meggison). It was basically built as a buffer from the turnpike but it's well utilized and in a good location so I think it was a good decision.

Clearly you didn't hear this from someone with an understanding of Villages geography. There are no homes on the west (just the turnpike) or the south (just Meggison) sides of Richmond Pitch & Putt.

Attachment 103617

Sorry, but logic and reason have no place in this discussion... :loco:

If I am reading the maps correctly,

Marsh View is 27.96 acres.
Richmond is 32.96 acres.
Mickylee is 45.7 acres.

Lowlands is 48.09 acres
Loblolly and Longleaf are a combined 90.93 acres or 45.465 acres each.
Red Fox and Gray Fox are a combined 80.35 acres or 40.175 acres each.
Turtle Mound and Sandhill are a combined 82.81 acres or 41.405 acres each.
Yankee Clipper and Southern Star are a combined 85.95 acres or 42.975 acres each.
Roosevelt and Truman are a combined 83.97 acres or 41.985 acres each.

I agree that Marsh View and Richmond are too small for an executive course but Mickylee is larger than many of the existing executives.

About a third of the Mickey Lee property is the rec center and the two postal stations. You might have squeezed something in the remaking space but I think the pitch and putt and the putting course is a much better use of the space

Don’t forget, hitting a pitching wedge requires much less space left ot right for an mis hit than an mis hit on a 175 yard par 3, or the par 4s on an executive.
Mickeylee is narrow

You are also ignoring the land surrounding the actual course. Most of the land you're claiming could be used was reclaimed "prairie"... Where as the other areas (like Turtle mound and Sandhill) were not.

And like I said before, compare the length of the holes on MickeyLee, compared to most Exec courses. Much shorter.

It's not all about square footage or acreage. It's about "usable land"...

It's the same thing when you drive thru Marsh Bend, for example. There are very large tracts of "open space" that is just not suitable to build on...

That was the purpose of my comment. There are no houses around Mickey Lee. Notice what I said about Richmond, I left off the section that actually has houses

Thanks for this info. I can add some context since I play some of these courses often.

If you compare to Lowlands, Loblolly or Longleaf, those courses essentially meander between homes and also have portions on the opposite sides of major streets so it's not a single contiguous chunk like Richmond and March View are. Comparing 45 acres for Loblolly/Longleaf to 32 acres at Richmond, that's 40% more land. That's significant. If Richmond P&P was 45 acres there wouldn't be much room left for the Village of Richmond there.