LPS -- Lightning Protection Systems -- Disappointed with Statement of Work
 

After so many documented lightning strikes, I decided to research the installation and cost of LPS.

I initially talked to a neighbor and he described how they are installed, which contrasted with what I see around The Villages.

I watched some Youtube videos and saw the installation in the attic with the only protrusions being the Rod Thread through the roof and the connectors and wires running inside the attic in the trusses. I liked the concept of the clean and permanent install.

I even watched videos where it was done in existing homes in the Central Florida area.

I liked the idea of not having wires attached to the shingles -- potentially causing abrasions to the shingles in the wind, and also not being strapped down to the roof with screws through the shingles, membrane, and wood roof panels.

My spouse got quotes from the 2 major installers in the area, and 1 from Orlando that was featured in This Old House episodes.

They all want to do an On-Top Roof mounting of all items. They told my spouse that it limits protrusions into the roof. Maybe I'm missing something, but strapping down the Rod Holders, the Connections, and Wires seem to be holes in my roof -- each a potential for leaks.

Anyway, I like the idea of a Copper Install in the Trusses that would last longer than I will last.

Some of the quotes were for Aluminum and also an option for Copper.

One quote indicated that the Aluminum was a disposable item at each Shingle Replacement.

All quotes indicated Roof-Top install with required removal and reinstall at Shingle Replacement.

I just felt deflated that this didn't match the Youtube videos of the clean install in the roof. One of the vendors suggested that they could do an In-Roof install during New Contruction, but not afterwards.

For those of you who might consider LPS, and those of you with an opinion. Am I justified in being skeptical of an installation with All-parts on the shingles?

By the way, being skeptical of whether LPS is worth the expense is a whole other discussion.

Big Steph

I understand your concern but as you discovered you can only get an In-roof install when the house is being built if the builder will allow it. There are thousands of On-roof installs here in the Villages and in speaking with A1 and Triangle, there are very few issues with leaks and shingle issues. They use a special screw with sealant on all roof penetrations and the cables are secured tight so they don't move around. I agree when you think of the number of roof penetrations needed to install a system it can be a little daunting but in reality it's not a problem. Worse is if you don't install a system and then get hit. The ensuing damage will dwarf any concerns with the On-roof installation. Hope this helps.

If I recall correctly, the is UL requirement for the installation of these systems, I have never heard of the inside the attic arrangement, and I would have concerns about the use of aluminum cables. I would go to the UL website and see what they have available to guide the consumer on these installations.

I found a link to start with:
Code-Compliant Installation of Lightning Protection Systems | UL Solutions

We used Danny Mack with A-1 Lightning Protection 352-465-0620. A-1 is UL qualified and local. He is one of the several respected companies that install lightning systems in the villages. I recommend you call him for an estimate and explanation. You also can see many of his installs on homes in the villages.

Now that I've been living in a home with a metal roof for the past 5 years, I would look into the affordability of investing in one for a newer home. If the ARC allows it - and I could afford it - I'd do it in a heartbeat. Metal roofs are safer in lightning prone areas, they can last between 40-70 years before they need replacing. You never have to worry about replacing shingles, though you do have to check the screws every year or so and apply sealant ever few years wherever there are screws (it's just a few hundred dollars every few years). They now come in different colors and styles, including a really nice ribbed matte finish which looks great on eaves and gables. You can save on insurance, with a metal roof.

Downside is they're crazy expensive. But they're an investment item. It can increase the value of your home, /and/ lower the risk of a potential buyer backing out unless you spring for a new roof when the old one is only 10 years old, because they're afraid of insurance issues.

Because?

Much of the energy for a high frequency/rise time transient event is carried in the electric field around the wire. This is one of the reasons they use braided cable as it will present the minimum impedance to the event.

The UL approved aluminium cable is sized to handle the same transient currents as copper cable for lightening suppression applications.

As far as I know, there should be no electrical difference between these two for a properly installed system.

I would be concerned with bringing the millions of volts inside the attic.

I'm just curious. Are you sure there are "thousands" of houses in The Villages that have a lightning protection system? I have not seen very many.

A-1, highly recommended.

not sure if metal roofs are allowed in the villages, better check first with ARC

Big Steph: Thank you for posting this. You just very effectively talked me out of a lightening protection system. Having the developer offer this internally when new homes are being built provides another revenue stream !!! AND you don’t need to replace when you reshingle the roof.

The systems don’t really stand out much for you to see them unless you look closely. I believe A1 told me they have installed over 3000 systems. If you have gas and the distribution header is in the attic in the garage strongly suggest you rethink not having lightning protection.

They are allowed but yes you would need arc approval. There are ones you wouldn’t even know are metal if you didn’t see the install.

...

Part of my justification is the Developer installs then on critical infrastructure, pump houses, fire stations, buildings in squares, etc.

The state of Florida, whose building code requires Lightning Protection Systems to be installed on all newly constructed Schools, Hospitals, and Nursing Homes. This is the only such mandate in the US.

If we are just talking about houses, there are about 70,000 houses in The Villages. So, 1/100 would equate to about 700 houses with lightning protection systems. I have only seen one house with a system in my neighborhood.

Correct, need more coffee...

Post #12 contains an estimate from one of the local installers.

FWIW I called Triangle and A1

A 1 returned my call last night during dinner. Very nice person apologized for late call. They had 63 calls yesterday alone. The estimator does a route rather than making individual appointments. I will receive a proposal via email and can call back for more info after.

Triangle also very nice. They have all the floor models and use satellite imagery of each home to prepare a bid rather than coming out. He spent a good 20 minutes on the phone w me and said call back if more questions after I receive proposal.

I have heard both firms are good.

The national standard on lightning, NFPA-780, permits either aluminum or copper braided cable with typically 28 to 32 strands. Copper is a better conductor. If you have to remove the system to re-roof it can be re-installed. This may or may not be true for aluminum depending on the age. If you have a lightning system and need to re-roof have your lightning system installer lay it back and then re-install it after the roof is completed. This is not the job of the roofer.

It’s important to note that these LPS’s DO NOT prevent a strike, rather they provide a safe path to ground in the unlikely event that your home is hit. If money were no object for me, I’d have one installed for GP, but at this point the odds are with me. Some say that it increases the risk of your neighbor getting hit, but I can’t find any real documentation of that. It’s a crap shoot really.

Save your money!

The only place that I know of that metal roof are allowed is over in Orange Blossom. I know they are not allowed in our Villas. In addition, while insurance companies will not drop you due to the age of the roof, they will charge you more due to the cost of the roof.

I had a metal roof in GA, and it was one of the best roofs I've ever had. We had a huge hail storm, and it dented the roof so bad that insurance replaced it. Looked like someone took a ballpeen hammer to the entire roof.

Not to nitpick, but it is not impedance, it is resistance sometimes, depending on how it is stranded.

The main reason to use stranded in a LPS is for the much higher heat dissipation of it vs sold strand wire

Get lightening rods
 

I used A1 and I feel safe during a thunder storm. Danny and crew installed them a year ago and I have never had any problem with roof leaks. He will come to your house and explain everything to you and answer all your questions and concerns.

When it’s time to replace the roof, Danny told me that they will remove and reinstall the rods for $500.

At the end of the day, Lightning is unpredictable. There is no way to anticipate if your home is going to be struck, damaged or destroyed. The Villages Lightning Study group documents lightning strikes here in the Villages. We have data to show many strikes happening to homes near golf courses or in a general areas when you look at the strikes on a map. This data is not definitive but interesting to look at.

So here is the deal. Getting a system or not is totally dependent on you tolerance for risk. The typical cost for a system is $2,000 to $3,500 depending onthe size of your home and the number of peaks, etc.. If you feel it's worth taking the risk of loosing all your personal belongings and maybe even your life, then do nothing. If you have the money or can plan for the expense then get a system to significantly lower your chances of a life altering event. Also, since the address of the recent strikes in Sunset Pointe and St. Charles are listed in the Villages News, I strongly suggest taking a ride to take a first hand look at these now destroyed homes. Attached are some pictures of recently destroyed homes to put things in perspective.

Triangle and A1 seems like the way to go. Besides price what has been the reason to choose one over the other?

I understand that a lightning protection system may save your life, but homeowners insurance will cover the damage shown in the photos.

True, but it takes 2-3 years to rebuild.

Correct from a DC current perspective.

But is the current induced by lightening:

1. AC
2. DC
3. Both
4. Neither

A-1 Lightening did our copper install in 2018. No leaks.

They both do basically the same quality work. I would go with the cheaper estimate and or the one that can install in your timeframe. Basically, no difference.

Don't remember seeing any at Brownwood. Must have stopped installing South of 466A.

Right, but it can be a life altering event if you have major damage. First you need to deal with your insurance company. Many people who were hit by lightning have related experiences where the insurance doesn't want to pay for all the damage and its a major job getting through that phase. Secondly, there aren't contractors and repair people just waiting on the side-lines to re-build your home. Typically it can take up to 1 to 2 years to rebuild. Finally, the insurance company is not going to be able to replace your personal family belongings. Pictures, furniture, files, etc., will be gone forever.

They are there, just need to look.

Your statement of “We have data to show many strikes happening to homes near golf courses “

I would think the villages lightning study group has Exact numbers, than the use of “Many”

Next the pictures you posted I don’t see any golf courses? Are they close, a mile, more than 5 miles? Data that would give a better idea than a general golf course strikes.

Data is not definitive, but interesting? Unsure how to interpret.

Date of the pictures would also peek interest in your meetings, if that what the group is seeking

We were at the large Brownwood Medical Center the other day. We were on an upper floor able to look at another section of the building at roof level. There were clearly lightning rods and the associated cabling all along the roof.

I dont understand WHY the builder put a gas line in the roof when there are tons of STRIKES here that can cause fires !!!! Do you kno why it is built that way? IF I knew this 2 years ago before I bought I would NOT have bought here at all...........

The key is 'properly installed', aluminum got a bad rep when it was allowed for house wiring and then it was not properly installed. I worked in the electrical power industry, and they use aluminum cable all the time with very specialized antioxidants and compression connections and even these fail occasionally. So I will agree with you if aluminum conductors are properly installed these would be acceptable, but my first preference would be copper.

When a house with a lightning protection system is hit by lightning, isn't there evidence that the lighting travelled through the cables and caused no damage? To me, that would be data worth seeing to prove the value of an LPS system. But, I have never seen such data.

I wanted to point out that lightning is unpredictable so you can't say my neighbor has a system or I have large trees near my home or I live near a lake or pond or things like that because lightning strikes do not work that way.

Yesterday was the first time I saw all the lightning strikes that we tracked marked on a map and while lightning is unpredictable, there may be some patterns with the strikes here in the Villages. My first observation was several were near golf courses such as the recent one in Osceola Hills and St. Charles. There are other's as well that were hit over the years. I'm not an expert in this area and I'm not saying because you live near a golf course or a pond or whatever you are more susceptible, but it's something I personally would like to investigate just for curiosity. When I do more research and can talk facts, we can consider sharing the data if its helpful.

The Villages Lightning Study Group makes presentations on the facts of lightning and lightning and surge protection systems, dispelling the myths so Villagers who are interested can get the information and make an informed decision. We haven't done any analysis on the data but now that we have more data, as I mentioned it would be interesting to take a deeper look and see if we can learn anything from the confirmed strikes.

Thanks for the pictures