Spanish Springs - the future
 

It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.

Does the Developer have "that many" rentals in the area??

Brownwood, yes............but in SS??

"The old order changeth, yielding place to new, and God fulfills himself in many ways."

That was true in the days of King Arthur and is still true today.

I've been thinking the same while I've been looking at houses for sale and where we might want to buy

Is the "north" getting outdated? Is the "middle" the best place to buy? Or is the "south" going to be the place to be in the coming years?

These are some of the questions I ask myself while browsing the homes for sale
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We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.

In 2007, we traveled to SS for pretty much anything. LSL was just getting started, with mostly developer owned sites.

2010-2016 living LSL area we traveled to SS couple times a month, LSL maybe 6 times a month.

Still living in LSL area once Brownwood, had decent occupancy, we traveled to SS once every quarter, just because there wasn’t much that interested us. LSL we might have gone to once a month, Brownwood maybe once a week. Never been a fan of Square music, rarely eat out, because can make it better at home.

My guess is once Middleton and Eastport has decent occupancy, we may travel there the most ( we are south of 44) It’s far closer than SS (50-60 minutes).

I hope SS gets better restaurants and venues, to keep it a viable square. But for us unless it’s something spectacular, we will stop at our once a year doctor visits.

As SS residents don't travel South of 44. :beer3:

Yep
 

The original problem is the area is in a “painted corner” for fixed income patrons catering to a smaller crowd the the rest of the villages. Attritional turn over will take a natural path that will direct lower pricing and different venues.

There was a large article about what is in the works just a day or two after Gator's announcement in the Daily Sun, much of the square is being remodeled with new business tenants under contract but they stated they will announce their names in the near future, they did however note that Planet Fitness I believe it's called is moving into the Rialto which is being remodeled for them so there is a lot going on behind the scenes. That being said we rarely go up there, tried the new Italian restaurant when it opened and was not impressed at all, won't go back to that one. They're not going to forget about the northern residents.

This is us and most of the folks we know. We have lived here almost two years and have been to SS once. LSL maybe 10 times, with Brownwood getting most of our time and money. Eastport will be a frequent destination once it opens. There just isn't anything to draw folks up that far....even the shopping isn't a draw.

Thats another Genesis health club. Roughly 7x-10x times more expensive per month than Planet Fitness (speaking as a non-Medicare customer).

I’ve been a villager now for a year and a half. When I first arrived, I was spending a lot of time at all three squares (4 if you count Sawgrass). I would cart up to Spanish Springs about 3 times a month. Now, I’ll wait for my favorite bands to play at Brownwood, rather than carting way up to Spanish Springs. I now go up there maybe once a month if that, but only if I have a reason, like tickets for something at the Sharon, and then I’ll eat dinner at Coastal Del Mar or Amerikanos if I’m there. There isn’t much else of a draw for me to Spanish Springs. I’m not a shopper, so that’s not something important to me. I do hope that Spanish Springs flourishes for those that live up at the north section and enjoy that square.

SS is where bowling is. So I know that will be a draw for me to head there. If I can find a league (team) that has a need for someone.

It seems to me that the longer people live here the less they go to the squares to listen to music and as a result dont frequent those restaurants. It applies to us for sure

If you don’t live in the SS area why would your opinion really mean anything if you’re not a frequent visitor.
The post, I live south SS and never go there, SO WHAT? Who cares if you don’t? You have really added nothing.

By posting that we/they rarely visit SS gives a possible reason why the businesses are closing down. If everyone stated that they frequent SS the question of why the businesses are closing will go unanswered. So, the replies actually have added something.

Perhaps you need to take a drive around that area as the residents in that area would argue that there are "few" of them. To the east you have Silver Lake, Country Club and Orange Blossom with over 2,800 homes in those 3 villages. To the west, as far as villages that border Morse Blvd you have more than 7,000 more homes. That doesn't even account for the villages in the area of the Savannah Center or up in Marion County, for whom Spanish Springs is their closest town square.

I don't think the problem is the number of residents.

Correct
 

Absolutely!

Some live in their own bubble and don’t view our issues in a better, well rounded, holistic scope.

Better, well rounded, holistic ………
I went to Sawgrass once, was not impressed. How does this statement help anything.
Or for that matter for me to repeat the statement on multiple threads as some posters continually do, accomplishes nothing.
Let’s face it, those citing all these issues (restaurants closing) even if new places were opened…..would not drive from south of 44 to SS twice or even once a week to give them support.
Sorry I don’t see the connection.

Doesn’t the Developer own all the commercial real estate in SS? I wasn’t really talking residential, was talking commercial.

Commercial rent for retail is based on retail revenue - if your revenue can’t meet rent, you are not renting.

We live JUST north of 44. We would go to SS 4 or 5 times a month, now maybe once a month. We would get a margarita, walk someplace different, eat.
If there was a renaissance at SS, we would go back - and I can walk to Brownwood.

Yes, there are villagers on all 4 sides, BUT
IF you go to Google Earth and draw a 2 mile radius around LSL, you hit houses the entire way (east only goes to 1.75 miles)

SS, north and east, houses stop at 1.5 miles.
West, housing goes to 3 and South goes a lot.

Brownwood is similar to the WEST and SOUTHWEST, Villagers to 0.5 miles
But the other 3 directions, East goes out to 4 miles
We know about south and north.

All I am saying, SS has less volume of customers close to it;
It needs a renaissance to draw us in, to cross 466.

If you were talking commercial, leasehold improvements are paid for by the tenants, not the landlord.

The landlord might finance it for the tenant..........but the tenant pays.

The bones are in place for retailers, the developer won't be the one to "need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years"

We would, if SS had the best restaurants and best retail, we would take the golf cart - getting there is half the fun
From Brownwood area, SS is probably as close as Eastport will be (just a guess)

Pretty much.....orange areas are Developer owned, blue areas VCCDD

Not sure why anyone would care how often someone south of 44 comes to Spanish. For the thousands of us who live on the North side, the apparent exodus is very concerning -- and stupid, if there is no plan to revitalize it. If Spanish dies, it will hurt all of our home values -- even you folks down South. Why would someone buy the "lifestyle", even below 44, if it becomes obvious that the current developer generation is just going to jerk the rug out, the moment all the new houses are sold?

As for the notion that nobody goes to Spanish for music any more, try to find a parking spot next January. We don't even bother trying to get in during the high season. You can't even find a place to park a golfcart. There is PLENTY of traffic. If it's dying from lack of interest, it certainly isn't the Villagers who are the problem.

Advertise outside
 

They need to advertise in Leesburg and Lady Lake more. Fliers in the trailer park development on Lake Yale could help bring in more of a crowd too. Perhaps even Marion Market could be hit with advertisements on the entertainment schedule.

The best chance for its survival would be more local attendance and flavor.

Your statement, not being impressed with Sawgrass, doesn't help anything because the question of why Sawgrass is losing business was not asked nor is it losing businesses. This particular topic about SS is helped with the answers that the OP is receiving.

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Next step
 

Not any of this is helping the SS area. What is, is what is. Foot traffic needs to increase there. Seasonal influxes won’t save the area. Local non Villagers who occupy more than half the circumference of its retail zone need to be involved? It can’t just be catering to “Villagers”.

WOW!! The point is that the expansion south and its new venues creates a situation where fewer people are traveling north to SS. That is verified by the many comments.

Good post, agree. I would add that part of the problem with SS is that new homes aren’t being sold in the area so attractions have been diverted south to put a shine on that area, at the expense of SS. Spanish Springs used to have a weekly farmers market, got equal bookings for the most popular bands, was the focus of many “special events”, and had a happy “two” hours. By moving most of that south, patrons that support the business have followed the attractions. I don’t fault the developers for closing Katie Bells or the movie theater, but diverting attractions away from the area has definitely not helped. And as much I hated to see the recent closings of three establishments in the square, all three places were basically bars that served mediocre and unhealthy pub food with very inconsistent service and attracted late night clientele that frequently showed up in the police log. Hopefully the closed establishments will be replaced with respectable businesses that aren’t late night hangouts for younger trouble making non Villagers.

SS is the most inferior setup of all of the squares as far as watching the live entertainment. Limited seating and sightlines, and the acoustics are all over the place. Not a very good restaurant selection, we went to Bella Vita and it was BAD, worst restaurant in TV hands down for service and food. We went to Costa Verde and it was average but double the price of the non-Villages places with similar quality offerings. We go to Brownwood all the time and Sawgrass on occasion, same with LSL if it's a band we want to see. It's possible/likely that we will not visit SS ever again other than going to The Sharon for shows.

You're right that the problem is not the number of residents. Many of those homes have an excess of people, often three generations living in a smaller home even.

It's unfortunate, but Silver Lake and Orange Blossom are the high drug use areas of TV. The people involved in that are unlikely to be dining at the fancy restaurants in Spanish Springs. Every week I read in the paper about people from those areas being arrested for drugs or violent crimes. Fortunately, it seems to be isolated to those Villages and you almost never see anything like that south of LSL. It seems obvious that the people into that sort of thing actively choose those specific Villages to move into.

Really?:shrug:

Nonsense! We go up to SS periodically because we really like Kilwins and Amerikanos. However it’s a long distance to get there. Maybe we’d go more often if there were some other draws for us there. As of now those draws are Sam’s Club, Target, and Chic Fil A. So yes those of us in the south can impact SS businesses.

The new restaurant, Bella Vista is outstanding.

Planet Fitness is not located in SS. Genesis Health which is located in SS is relocating to the Rialto.

So the point is they are renovating for money? What if they DIDN'T renovate? I am impressed they are putting money where they aren't selling homes anymore. By the way, I am south of Sawgrass.

Watching retirement developments demographics and economics life cycle in real time. A great MBA business case for both the developer from a growth location to a mature, commodity location. .

damn it, i did it again.. .
stupid former employed brain. .

former employed guy

You are much kinder in your response than I would have been......such ignorance.