Amenity Fees
 

There are 18 homes on my block and the amenity fees range from $179 and change to over $200. The home that originally closed first pays $179 and is the oldest on the block. The next oldest originally closed 1 month later and their fee is $190. The most recent resident (last summer) is paying $194 while a home sold two years ago is paying $201.

Generally, the adjustment anniversary date is the original land sale date so fee adjustment dates will be different for each property. I just can’t figure why such a big difference from least to most.

I’m not complaining, I just like to play with numbers, but can’t figure out how this works. Guess I’ll contact district and ask them.

Any resales? That makes a difference.

Post #2 mentions resales. I've heard that too: when a house is resold the amenity fee is recalculated according to some kind of formula. But whatever it is, $201 is incredibly cheap for all that TV has to offer. We have friends in a retirement village up in the panhandle who pay over $650 a month for a golf course, couple of tennis courts, landscaping and an ocean view!

What do you get for the amenity fee besides “free” golf on the 9 hole courses and the opportunity to join a club? It’s my understanding that some clubs also have additional dues?

It seems pretty misleading to me to say that it’s only $200 a month to live in the Villages. What about your landscaping? trimming? fertilization? Irrigation?

Don’t get me wrong: I think the Villages is a fantastic community. But when you compare fees between Villages and non-Villages communities, make sure you are getting a true picture of your monthly expenses.

When a house changes hands, including initial sales, the amenity fee is set to the "prevailing rate" which is currently $195 (I believe this is correct, perhaps it is $194)

Each year in the month that the house was initially purchased from the Developer (or perhaps initially put on the market) the amenity fee is adjusted for the current CPI. Note that the month this happens has nothing to do with the month you purchased a resale, it is tied to the month the home was sold for the very first time. Also, the CPI used might be from a month or two prior to the anniversary month due to the time it takes to publish the number. All this is explained in your deed restrictions.

Each year either in October or January the Developer has the option to set a new "prevailing rate" for the amenity fee. If the new rate is set higher than the recent CPI then the new rate will be more than what you are currently paying for your home.

This explains why some homes are $195 and others are $190. The prevailing rate for a home sold before January 2024 was less than $195. When that amenity fee was adjusted for the CPI it came out to $190. Then the Developer set the 2024 rate to be $195 and a new home was purchased. The amenity fee for the new home is $195 while the fee for the old home is $190.

This also explains why some homes are $195 and others may be $201. Perhaps both homes were purchased in 2024 and both homes had the amenity fee set to $195. One home then reached the anniversary date of when it was first purchased and its amenity fee was adjusted according to the CPI. Since the CPI is running about 3%, the adjustment would be about $6 for a total of $201. The second home has not yet reached its anniversary date and so its amenity fee is still $195.

If everyone gets the exact same amenities, WHY are the fees different?
I asked, and was given a long explanation about how they use sales dates, anniversary dates, etc, to arrive at a unique fee per house. They never could say WHY they are all different, other than "this is how we do it."

A guess:

1. Buyers will feel better about a rate that is adjusted annually for inflation rather than a rate that is set arbitrarily each year.

2. Adjusting the rate on the anniversary of the initial sale rather than the date of resale makes it easier to project income - the date a home will be adjusted for inflation is fixed, it never varies.

3. NOT tying the annual change in the prevailing rate (the Amenity fee set when a home changes hands) to inflation allows the Developer to make a larger increase if necessary.

From financial intuition:

The process is similar to the tax basis and tax calculation records,
The all current rates go up at the same rate
At sale, the current rate is attached to the property, reset for future increases.

What is unknown is the current rate at the time of sale.

The relevant documents only discuss the annual homeowner rate of increase, not how the existing rate is calculated when a house is sold and the rate is reset.

The annual rate is related/similar to the increase rate of social security, which is also based upon the rate of inflation, i believe, i could be wrong. However, SS is a political number, so it doesn't quite track the CPI annual change with adjustments exactly. The rate at time of sale can be calculated many different ways. . and that is unknown.

Let us numerical mind jugglers know what you uncover. .

Access to all the sports, family, and adult pools. The MMPs (which are SUPPOSED to be for residents and their guests only, but that's unfortunately bypassed). Every single rec center in The Villages. All the shuffleboard/pickleball/tennis/bocci courts, archery ranges, softball fields, walking trails down south, craft rooms, meeting/event space, the irrigation systems to the golf courses, community area landscaping, all the parks around the retention ponds and woodlands, dog parks, fishing lakes, and paying every single employee who who handles all these things.

Ok, so common areas. That’s normal. I suppose if one wants to travel around TV to swim in other pools or use other rec centers, more power to you.

What about your personal landscaping? That is a monthly cost of TV residency and it’s never mentioned when I have conversations with people about actual monthly costs of living there. I always get the $200;per month, 3000 clubs, and/or “I bought the lifestyle” answer. Again, fine if that’s what one wants, but it’s still misleading.

The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

As mentioned, I like the Villages. It’s the reason we came to this part of the state. We found something that was more suited to our needs while allowing us to take advantage of the free aspects of the Villages. I understand folks who defend TV on issues worth defending, but I don’t understand the residents who seem to take personal offense anytime someone says anything that can be considered even remotely a constructive criticism. Your mileage may vary.

I understand, but that doesn’t explain the nearly $22 difference between lowest and highest. The $179 rate home is the original owner. If the prevailing rate is $195, why is a home sold last year over $200?

Home sold last year:
Sold in February, amenity fee set to $195
Anniversary date in June, CPI about 3%, amenity fee increases to about $200
I don't know what the rate was last year, perhaps it was close to $195 and then the home went through two increases.
EDIT: If your neighbor is willing to share his utility bills with you then you could see what his amenity fee started as and how it was adjusted over time.

$22 difference:
I haven't kept track of where the Developer has set the amenity fees over time. I know mine started at less than $150 and it is up to $180 now. It seems the Developer is setting the new rates a bit higher than the CPI for the year which means the longer you stay in your home, the greater the difference between what you pay and what a new owner pays.

You're ignoring all the things the previous poster listed. Our amenity fee is a bargain! There's nowhere else you'll find so many options to stay active and have fun.
Besides golf, pickleball, running on the mmps and enjoying our neighborhood pool, I play softball on the nicest fields I've ever played on and it costs me nothing, except buying my jersey. Very well organized and all the softball facilities are top notch, like all things here.

And I can find just about any activity I would like to try. The choices are amazing, and too many to list.
There's so much to do and fun to be had, we run out of time.

But like you, the villages isn't a good fit for everyone.
And I don't get your "misleading" comment. We bought 2 years ago after a lifestyle visit and were fully aware of what we would be paying for, no surprises. I mow my own grass and take care of my own landscaping. I only pay extra for lawn treatment and having my palms trimmed.
Our friends live in Bonita Springs in an over 55 community. They pay over $500 a month for 2 pools and 2 pickleball courts and they get their tiny yard mowed.

For us, we're truly living our best life here and couldn't be happier.

I wonder what percent of golf carts on the MMO are not residents - I would say less than 5%.

Okay, not a big deal, they re coming over and spending money in the restaurants.

I think if you take the time to look into your bylaws it should be stated in there similar what others are saying here. I know because I had similar question when I recently purchased a home and found it in the bylaws (how it’s calculated).

Well, I can see that other people than Villagers come to the squares as businesses pay for entertainment. As long as Villagers don’t pay for the squares I can’t see why it should be reserves strictly for them. But MMP’s ? I don’t know who pays for them and their upkeep?

It is what it is! Doesn't mean that it is right or fair. Imagine the "sliding scale" at a gas station. Different price per gallon depend on what car you drive, what time of day it is and which pump you choose. Figures don't lie. But liers can figure. Just saying...

I’m confused about your comments regarding personal landscaping. Wouldn’t you have costs associated with “personal landscaping “ if you lived somewhere else? Many people here have landscapers take care of their tiny yards, we prefer to do our own as we have no matter where we have lived, so we don’t have any added costs for that unless we change something. But if you don’t take care of your own, yes you will have costs. No different than anywhere else.

I'd be more concerned over a non-resident sneaking into the amenities than riding on a MMP. That's the choke point and that's where we should be monitoring more closely----pools, rec centers, and after-hours golf course trespassers.

Here's another question: Why do some people get their undies in a bunch over chump change? OMG---I pay $6 more than the neighbor on my left but $4 less than the one on my right. Chicken Little----oh well, everyone knows the rest.

Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

Some of my Village friends talk about how expensive it is to live in my community compared to TV. We pay $975 quarterly in fees, or $325 monthly. Thay always talk about how they pay only $200 monthly and they get all the clubs and the lifestyle. Our fees cover the usual and customary things like our pools, hot tubs, fitness center, and clubhouse. Our fees also cover all landscape charges: edging, cutting, trimming, weeding, fertilization, mulch, and irrigation. Events that involve food and entertainment usually have a small additional charge.

My point was that looking at dollars only without considering what one gets for those dollars is the misleading part. Sure, we’re paying for landscaping in our fees, and villagers have the option of doing their own yard maintenance which can be a savings, but for those of us who hate yard work, especially in the hellfire heat of Florida, it’s nice not to worry about it. We also do not have any bonds or ongoing CDD fees. We don’t have free golf here, which for a golfer is likely the main selling point, but as said, your mileage and comfort level may vary.

Since you live in Lakeside Landing, it seems that you want residents of TV to stop thinking about who uses the MMP's.

That does seem to be happening. My wife played tennis with a group at Rohan last week and two people from the center came out to check IDs. Smart idea to have two folks do it instead of one. I've also heard (haven't yet experienced it) that such checks are being implemented at the tennis and pickleball courts at El Santiago.

It seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that the things that go wrong get center stage while all the things that are going right are all too often ignored.

I’m not the thought police. You are free to think and express whatever thoughts you want. If the management of TV thinks non-villagers using the MMPs is a priority problem, I imagine they’d put a stop to it.

OK, let's see if we all got this straight: You do not live in TV. You live in a vastly inferior community. You have 100+ less pools, about 80-100 less rec centers, no free entertainment in 4 locations 365 days/year, 50+ less golf courses, none of which are "free", BUT.....you get your lawn mowed???? And you pay double our average amenity fee and your criticizing the Villages???? Is anyone green with envy when they look in the mirror????

You do you! :rolleyes:

Sounds like a great place.:a20:

Has nothing to do with the sky falling. It is a question of, fairness, equality. Since we all have equal access to everything the "lifestyle" has to offer, shouldn't we all pay an equal access fee? The "chump change" amount seems like a cheap shot at folks who worked hard for every dollar they earned. Others are just naturally thrifty and want full, fair value for what they spend. A simple question that seems to have a not so simple answer.🫠🫠🫠

Very well said. Drop the mic.

I get where you're coming from but I think ge was a physician, it may seem they make a lot of money in general but that's a job I wouldn't want. Based on the length of education, dealing with people within their personal space and the horrible condition people let their bodies get into I think the money is well earned and deserved.

As far as I can tell, the amount of stuff we get for our monthly Ammenity fee in the Villages cannot be matched at any other retirement community in the world. No complaints here!

Contrarian
 

Doesn't the bond pay for the infrastructure in the squares? I have no problem with non-Villagers using the squares. Villagers pay, outsiders use....I get the argument for Villagers only at the Squares.

Nope

True! But some who, regardless of their job/ career, end up with far more money than others. What seem "chump change" to one may seem significant or meaningful to another, depending upon what the expenditure is for. The term , "chump" is actually an insult, infers that said "chump" is of lesser value as a person. "Chump change", while a common enough expression, is actually insult by inference that a person's human or societal value is directly proportional to their wealth or lack of it.
Good of you to come to GE's defense, but I was not attacking him. I have too much respect for him to do that, regardless of the fact we do differ in our opinions.

What I love about TV...
 

I am always impressed that I can go anywhere on the TV "campus" -- be it a rec center, a square, golf course, etc. -- and always find a sparkling clean rest room!! I suspect my fees help to cover those costs as well. :angel:

Amenity fees
 

You gorgot to mention all the pools that are inluded with fees!!!

TV is unlike any other development I've lived in. Usually, when the builder has built out an area, they walk away, and things begin to deteriorate (plants died off, grass gets mowed by a tractor maybe once a month or so, sidewalks chip/break/shift and become tripping hazards, etc.). Whether I go to the oldest sections or newest sections, TV is very well maintained! The amenity fee is reasonable compared to condos and other smaller developments we looked at before coming here, and they usually had one smallish pool and a gym that smelled like a high school boys locker room.

Amenity fees covers much more than golf
 

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than just the golf... In fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.

Look around at all the common areas, such as all of the flower beds along Morse and Buena Vista....plus the swimming pools, rec center maintenance, etc etc.

Sure, each house has its own maintenance needs.

Amen! No complaints. But many wonder why we pay different price for the exact same amenities. The answer doesn't seem easy to explain.