Santa Ana winds are caused by climate change
 

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

Santa Ana winds aren't "caused by" climate change. This weather phenomena has been part of the ecosystem for at least the last 5000 years.

What's "caused by" climate change is the increased range, severity, and frequency. But this wind pattern is not new, and dates back to the Bronze Age.

I agree the wind got up do to upper level pressure changes which as we know is climate? So when high pressure move out and low pressure move in along jet steam the climate changing.:icon_wink:

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.

You rang:posting:

Attempt to drum up attendance for a "let me tell you" meeting. Have fun.

Not the one I am expecting.

This is TOTV. We all know everything about everything, even if we don't agree. 😉

Bingo. Way to silence the sky is falling crowd.

You mean another one? We already have 435,000 of them

It was fun. Today's audience at the Civil Discourse Club was happy to hear that climate was not the cause of the LA fires, but has everything to do with improving global weather -- including decreasing hurricanes and tornadoes. They were especially interested in hearing about the 2023/24 global warming spike - which is temporary. As a result, more people have signed up for the Weather Club's monthly announcements listing.

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer

Amen Boomer...

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.

Wonderful! Many of us older models are running out of time to have fun. Enjoy.
As for your mention of the 23/24 global warming spike being temporary. Everything is temporary. Nothing, absolutely nothing, lasts forever.

No. They just has better things to do than play on totv at this time. They will be back when they are in the mood to pluck some ostrich tail feathers.

And, FYI, they/we never said the sky was falling. That is vicious mis-characterization of well meaning folks that, with the best scientific knowledge available acknowledge that climate change is affected by human activity. That's all. The "sky" is not falling.

Excellent! I approve this message!

So the title of this thread, "Santa Ana winds [B]are caused by climate change/B] conveyed a message that was not exactly accurate?

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.

Here is a great read on the CA environment and errors made by environmentalists.

Environmentalists Destroyed California’s Forests | California Policy Center

Don't forget about the record-breaking heat waves on land and in the ocean, drenching rains, severe floods, years-long droughts, extreme wildfires, and widespread flooding during hurricanes and the possibility of an alien invasion.

This might sound heartless, but we all understand this risk we take when we decide where we want to live. I've chosen to live here in Florida with the knowledge that I could find myself homeless one day due to a hurricane. The residents of California have to be aware they are living under a triple threat, Fire, Earthquakes, and Mudslides. Yet they have decided to live there anyway.

Now is climate change adding to the severity of the fires in California. Believer in climate change will say yes and deniers will say no. I can't give you an answer, but I do know in my lifetime the climate has been changing. Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.

Maybe the Wind Gusts are keeping them from providing Air Support. They have used air support including super tankers in the past, but not during high winds.

For contrary views based on credible science and data visit Watts Up With That? – The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

Looks very one-sided.

Seemed like it was a perfect characterization to me

If ANYONE believes this, come on over…I’ve got a bridge for sale. THEY are really grasping at straws here. I watched my childhood home burn last week! I can tell you with CERTAINTY that the SA Winds existed in the sixties…as I’m sure they have for eons. Long before the idiots started screaming that we somehow caused it. Yes, the earth too has been warming for eons…LONG before the internal combustion engine. Proof that it’s not us.

All of which has happened hundreds of times before human technology arrived. (with the exception of the alien invasion)

I think you mean for your great great 2000x great grandchildren in 50 or 60,000 years

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

And the government websites aren't?
Basics of Climate Change | US EPA

Global warming is not settled science. Climate change has been around since the beginning of time. And when the proposed solution is to increase taxes and throttle our standard of living then it is wise to be exposed to scientific based arguments of both sides because it is extremely complex.

I originally believed they hype from Al Gore, but became more skeptical when many scientists in the climate field were challenging the theory. So I dug further and read about the UN climate change conferences and found out that the politicians and bureaucrats dominated the discourse and the many scientists who disagreed were completely ignored.

Science can be and has many times been corrupted by special interests especially when profits and political power can be obtained.

Note to self. Over 1/2 the country is smart enough to realize the climate IS ALWAYS CHANGING. And smart enough to realize man has no impact on this. To say anything otherwise, well, you missed a day in school.

Well there’s some of us that do know, and some of us that missed that day in school.

When people say the economy must be severely damaged and people's quality of life destroyed due to unsupported AGW claims, they are saying the sky is falling.
The Gangrene New Deal is a knee jerk reaction to the sky falling...and an open power grab.
Seriously, we all know there are plenty of chicken littles. They can be spotted by how angry they get when asked what percentage of the warming is the expected natural increase we know is happening and what percentage is man made. No one is able to answer that question.
Oh, people KNOW man is causing heating but cannot say how much...not even a rounded estimate.
The reason why is simple, man's addition falls into the margin of error in the models.
We should stop pollution, it is bad, but humans are not the cause of global warming, nature is.
Warming is happening but man cannot change it without messing things up. That is the one thing we excel at.
Let the Milankovich Cycles keep playing their sing and in another hundred or so years we will be heading back down to ot the next ce age. For now, enjoy the increase in plant life the extra heat and CO2 brings us.

What percentage of the temp increase is caused by man and what percentage is caused by the natural temp increase we know is happening?
Source the answer. Thanks!

Yes, the title is a lie meant to stir the pot.

Man is a very minor player.
It will reverse all by itself, as it has for the last 400,000 years at least, is another 100 years or so. We then begin the long trek into the next ice age.
The expected max temp, as predicted by the Milankovich Cycles (which are a well accepted scientific fact for many decades now), has yet to be reached.

You do realize I agree with you, correct? But I did find this:

Mounting Evidence Suggests Early Agriculture Staved Off Global Cooling | UVA Today

Also, from another source---"So how can all this help us understand future climate? One idea is that small increases in greenhouse gases due to the expansion of agriculture that started 8,000 years ago have in fact delayed the next ice age. "