Solar Panels
 

Be aware there are people, currently in Pinellas going door to door asking to review your electric bill and show you that solar panels are financially a good idea. I have done my own analysis and in the state of Florida (net metering), these do not make financial sense.
Please be very cautious about the people.

They were in our neighborhood a month or so ago. Said they were with Duke Energy. Conveniently their id badge was turned around so it was unreadable. When I asked to see the front of the badge he walked away.

If they get to the point of impersonating a company like Duke call the police and report it especially if you get it said on your Ring doorbell. The misinformed might not be so lucky. Thanks

They are required by state law to have a solicitation permit. The permit should state the name of their company. I would just ask to see the permit. If they don't have one, you can call law enforcement.

Solicitation permit? Yeah right.

Have gotten warnings from SECO that people will tell you they're from SECO. NOT.
SECO says they don't solicit door-to-door. Nor endorse anything like this.

Is this the same outfit that tells you that you pay absolutely nothing out of pocket?

I never let them get to that point, when I pointed out I was a member of the IEEE that wrote the national standards for these, as well as being on UL standards boards, and pointing out that I would never get my money back, they left.

School Math:

Jimmy spends on average $150 a month on all his electrical needs in his home.

If James sells Jimmy a solar panel system for 30k, with a 10 year average of battery replacement at 8k, how long will it take Jimmy to recoup the money he has spent and break even?

Answer:
a: 65+ years because the panels have to be replaced every 25 years
b: never but it sure looks ritzy on the roof of my house
c: doesn't matter, I'm stopping climate change
d: Jimmy couldn't sell his house because buyers didn't want solar issues
e: salesman said I could sell the extra back to the power company
f: the real money is selling the panels and James is laughing all the way to the bank

True - Florida is a state where the utilities don't like you competing with them in making electricity. However. back in 2011 in CT it was a different story. I put a 28 panel solar system on my roof and got substantial federal tax credits and a state rebate. Soon after it went online my electrical bill went down to zero. Once a year the utility zeros out the excess Kwh I put into the grid and issues me a credit for a couple hundred dollars. The panels are guaranteed to produce at 85% output after 25 years, and new panels are now half the price of the ones that are installed. Electrical bills have gone through the roof in CT due to additional "social benefits" add on and other charges that have taken effect. Bills are in the $400-$600 per month range for a typical home. Electricity is cheap down here in Florida, and not worth putting in solar panels, unless you are somehow inclined to believe you are "saving" the environment.

Not to mention when the roof needs replacement, the cost of taking down the panel and reinstalling is rather expensive.

Which is why one should replace roof and install solar panels at the same time.

A friend who sells solar panels was telling me there are now subscription solar panels. We didn’t have time to talk long, so I don’t know much about it, but basically she said you pay less per month on it than you pay on your electrical, it’s completely warranted — you pay for no repairs — and if you are selling the house and the new owners do not want the solar panels, the company will come and take it away.

Which doesn’t take away from the fact that we need to beware of people going door to door selling things, but there may be good options out there for people who are interested in saving on electrical costs which, personally, I don’t find to be that cheap in Florida.

Whether it was P.T. Barnum, or some other con-man, the famous phrase describes most solar panel purchasers: "There's a sucker born every minute."

Hi
In a nutshell, you mind sharing a bit of detail about your conclusion? Nothing elaborate but enough to understand a bit.

Thanks

I considered PV panels for a brief moment. Here are my thoughts. If we assume everyone opted for rooftop solar under Florida’s net metering construct, then everyone is putting energy back into the grid for which the utility companies must pay. If all this money is going out to pay for PV provided energy from rooftop solar, then from where does the money come to pay the lineman that repairs the power infrastructure after the next hurricane?
The assumption is, of course, invalid but does, I think, highlight the flaw in net metering.

So what happened, did Jimmy buy??

Apart from the economic aspect there is a potential greater danger.
These companies often have contracts that in effect rent your roof space.
Our neighbour, despite our words of caution, went ahead. He then had a massive stroke and now is in care full time.
His daughters have been unable to sell the house - even dropping the price well below market levels.
Be very careful if tempted.

They can void your homeowners insurance
 

Since they act as a lifting plan on your roof, in higher winds like a hurricane, they can pull that section of your roof off. Look at videos of the west coast after last years storms and you'll see what I mean. As such your homeowners insurance company can deny your claim.

Solar Panels don't ever pay for themselves. They lose power output over time and the cost of a New Roof increases substantially. Unless you live off the grid, don't consider powering your home with solar panels.

You need to qualify this statement. In Massachusetts, on the roof of our horse farm, we installed 175 panels. Our normal electric bill in February was over $2,000. The indoor arena lights, barn lights, apartment heat etc. Between the net metering resulting in a large credit during the summer months to offset the low producing winter months, and the SRECs from the state of about $18,000 a year, the $200,000 installation had an 8 year payback. We even converted our house from oil to electric.
What you meant to say was that solar panels dont pay for themselves in every state and situation.

My neighbors put solar panels on about a year ago as they have a pool to heat. They say they have paid zero for them and their highest electric bill has been $17! Not sure where the catch is, but I bet there is one.

The math worked for me.
 

After tax credit the cost of our system was 11k. Electric bills run from $5 to $50 each month. That includes charging up a Tesla and an EZGO. Zero gasoline bill and tiny SECO bills. Gotta like that. After nine years the system has almost paid for itself and there have been zero problems.

It looks like you didn't factor in the time value of the $11,000 initial cost. In 9 years, $11,000 invested at 5 percent per year, would yield an investment income of about $5,000. Also, have you factored in the cost to remove and re-install the panels when you replace the roof? This can cost about $3,000 to $5,000. And, during that 9 years, if you didn't have roof leak, you have been lucky. Try calling a roofer to repair even a small leak and tell them that the leak area is covered with solar panels. They will probably hang up on you.

Realtor here
 

Exactly - thanks for sharing your calculations that it is not cost effective. I would add that whenever you have to have a new roof, it costs an additional $7,500 to remove and replace the panels. Then there is the issue upon resale - not too many people are comfortable with the idea of 100% solar.

And then the solar panel company goes out of business & you can’t get parts from China.

Nope. Not going to get solar panels. Our electric bill only averages about $125/month anyway, even with a heated pool.

Can cost that much to go out to dinner these days.

There is no out of pocket money, because the Solar companies are affiliated with a national Solar loan company. I have had solar panels since 2019 and love them. Twenty five year warranty and recently had an inverter replaced at no cost. Payback period is about eight years.

But the $11,000 would not have been invested at 5 percent per year. Interest rates have not been that high for the past nine years (and are not that high today) and 5 percent per year would just cover inflation so there would be no effective gain. Besides, by now all of that $11,000 would have been paid to SECO or Duke.

I wonder if the additional cost for removing and reinstalling the panels would be much different than the variation in cost for grades or colors of shingles. Basically, is the amount in the noise? And since the panels would keep much of the roof in the shade, the shingles would not degrade as quickly and might hold up longer. Then you could consider the time value of the replacement money if it was invested at 5 percent for an additional year or two.

When you sell your house, what options do the buyers have? I assume that you have already taken the tax credit.

Do you have solar panels on your roof?

I don't because it sounds like a bad investment with high risk and a low potential for return. Even at $11,000, which is low, that would be enough to pay my entire electric bill for about 9-10 years, assuming the money is invested.

A few other points:
What happens if you have a roof leak and no roofer will touch the solar panels? Will the solar company repair the leak?
How many small companies can afford to service a 25-year warranty? Is the warranty transferable?
How many buyers will you attract with an older solar system? Some buyers, like me, will not even consider buying a house with solar panels.

If solar panels are such a money saver why does the government have to pay out taxpayer money to entice people to purchase them?

There you go.

All you need to know about Solar power, is in that sentence.

No holes in my roof
 

I don't want any holes in my roof. More places to leak & if get a minor hurricane they go flying like a kite

I suspect just the opposite is true. If solar panels went flying like a kite then it would make the news and would hurt solar panel sales. I don't remember hearing anything about that in the news. Are there homes in the Villages with solar panels? How did they make out?

My guess is the panels are designed and installed to handle a stronger hurricane than we will ever see here. If anything, they help protect the roof.

(A "guess" only because all the information I can find seems to be from the solar industry so I'm not too quick to trust it)

I don't think I've heard of anything sold door to door that makes financial sense.

What about the Encyclopedia Britannica books?

It's true that solar sales are totally unregulated. It's like the Wild, Wild West.

Did they glue the shingles to your roof?

There is simply no reason in the Villages to put solar panels on your house. My opinion:

1. You are old. You won't live long enough to recoup the cost
2. You are old. Why would you want this hassle?
3. Your roof will someday be old. And you will have to mess with this on top of it to replace it.
4. Your old insurance company. Why would they want to insure your roof with this on your roof? Sure, they are OK now, but their policies change like the wind that will rip the panels off.
5. Panels and their electronics get old. And they will need to be fixed/replaced.
6. Regulations/incentives get old. And they might get changed by new government folks to reduce the value of solar energy returns.

Bottom line: Electric prices are reasonable in the Villages. Cut back on your cable package and put up an antenna is you want to save money. Buy a used Toyota vs a new Lexus. Eat in more, eat out less. Solar is a PITA way to try and possibly save money.

Or...

If solar panels are such a good deal, why doesn't the electric company just lease our roofs?

They are busy managing all the solar farms they have already built - because they are such a good idea.

Installing solar on your roof for the sole purpose of selling back to the utility is a bad idea. The whole idea for this came from some smaller solar companies realizing that they can trick homeowners into this where the local utility will pay them for the electricity and then the solar company in turn pays the homeowner pennies on the dollar.

There's a podcast about this that explains the topic in detail:

Why prices for rooftop solar might be higher than they should be : Planet Money : NPR