Neighborhood AED Costs
 

I have seen AED (Automated External Defibrillator) sprinkled across neighborhoods. I learned that these are resident-funded. Does anyone know a cost per unit? Before I kick-off a project to procure one (or more) of these in our village, I’d like to understand the procurement costs and recurring charges. I can’t approach my neighbors and ask for donations if I don’t know the goal.

8 Steps to Starting the Neighborhood AED Program | Indepthreports | thevillagesdailysun.com


What you need is here"……….

$1,200-1,500 per unit, if all parts are made in the US. If not add 150% to be on the safe side. After living in 4 previous Villages since 2010, pads are replaced not because of use.. but expiration.

At 2am in the morning I have never witnessed anyone answering phone call, getting dressed, driving, finding the house in the dark, entering if the door is unlocked, in less than 9 minutes.

Have witnessed many calls that Rescue was already in the residence before the neighborhood. AED walked in the door. Once a volunteer AED entered at the same time as Rescue, because they lived 4 doors down, and knew the house.

However, one thing to understand if CPR is not started immediately by someone living in the home, that nine minutes of damage, most likely will be irreversible.

If you live in Sumter county, before you do anything contact Jacki Martin at thr public safety office, behind the Sumter library. The county has a program now that pays for thr upkeep and replacement of AEDs, pads and batteries. They also pay for the app to notify you. I am the coordinator for my area and we have responded to several 2 am in the morning calls. About a third of the time we beat the fire dept, but the FD is there 2-3 minutes after us. It may not sound like much but that's 2-3 minutes of cpr that up the odds of survival. If you have questions call me 318-787-8993 Bruce

An alternative approach for AEDs in your neighborhood
 

If you live in Sumter County there is a program supporting neighborhood AEDs. Contact Jacki Martin eccsupport@sumtercountyfl.gov

2 parts to the Sumter County offering. A) Responder Alert process and B) AED provisioning.

Responder:

This program uses "PulsePoint" instead of Ready Alert. PulsePoint is free vs. Ready Alert which is $50 per responder per year. Both programs are similar. The responder qualifications are the same (volunteer level CPR/AED trained).

AED provisioning:

You must purchase and maintain your AEDs for 4 years. After 4 years Sumter county will take over the repair, replacement of the AEDs, pads and batteries. Costs: AED ~$1500-1800; Battery: $200 up; Pads: ~$70.

CPR/AED training: There are several sources to get trained. CERT, Fire Department, etc. I use Martha Mitchell (352-208-2665). Martha can sell you AEDs at a competitive cost in addition to the training.

Most of the country is handled by volunteer fire departments.
Someone usually arrives quickly. Rarely more than a couple minutes. Get CPR started. That's the critical milestone - care withing 4 minutes.
As more people arrive in a few more minutes, they can swap over doing CPR - it's very physically exhausting when done right. It's not like television.
When the AED arrives, it gets used.

Volunteers (neighbors) know their neighborhood and can find addresses fast. That is what works here.

If anyone here looks at PulsePoint when an ambulance goes by, and looks at the time for the call, the response time is easy to figure out. For the PAID responders, sitting ready to roll, rarely do I see a sub 5 minute response time at any time of day. That's a serious problem. Warrants investigation IMHO.

So the AED program, with the volunteers, is super important here.
That alone should convince neighbors to buy into the program.

IF the AED volunteer arrives and uses the equipment before the pros arrive, the chances of surviving to the point of leaving the hospital alive double, from 7% to 14%. However, the percentage who have heart attacks and need AED has decreased in the past twenty years from 70% to 80% to 10% to 30%. Trying to defibrillate someone who doesn’t need it is not helpful. In probably most cases, the local volunteers trained can’t get there in time anyway.

Leaving the hospital alive does NOT mean returning home happy and healthy. Many more of the survivors then go to rehab hospitals or nursing home. Or they go home but have significant memory loss and perhaps can’t drive again, much less play golf again. I really don’t like those odds. It is NOT the way it is shown on TV.

“Survival After Application of Automatic External Defibrillators Before Arrival of the Emergency Medical System”
“ Of 13,769 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests, 4,403 (32.0%) received bystander cardiopulmonary resuscitation but had no AED applied before EMS arrival, and 289 (2.1%) had an AED applied before EMS arrival. The AED was applied by health care workers (32%), lay volunteers (35%), police (26%), or unknown (7%). Overall survival to hospital discharge was 7%. Survival was 9% (382 of 4,403) with bystander cardiopulmonary resuscitation but no AED, 24% (69 of 289) with AED application, and 38% (64 of 170) with AED shock delivered. In multivariable analyses adjusting for: 1) age and sex; 2) bystander cardiopulmonary resuscitation performed; 3) location of arrest (public or private); 4) EMS response interval; 5) arrest witnessed; 6) initial shockable or not shockable rhythm; and 7) study site, AED application was associated with greater likelihood of survival (odds ratio: 1.75; 95% confidence interval: 1.23 to 2.50; p < 0.002). Extrapolating this greater survival from the ROC EMS population base (21 million) to the population of the U.S. and Canada (330 million), AED application by bystanders seems to save 474 lives/year.”
“ In recent years, emergency medical services (EMS) recordings of initial cardiac arrest rhythms show a striking decline in the incidence of ventricular tachycardia (VT) or ventricular fibrillation (VF) that may benefit from AED use. Initial VT/VF rhythms accounted for 70% to 80% of cardiac arrests 20 years ago (25), but now constitute only 10% to 30% of arrests (8,25,26). Non-VT/VF arrests (asystole and pulseless electrical rhythms) do not benefit from AEDs, and furthermore, their use may delay life-saving measures such as bystander CPR in such patients.”
Article from National Library of Medicine: Survival After Application of Automatic External Defibrillators Before Arrival of the Emergency Medical System: Evaluation in the Resuscitation Outcomes Consortium Population of 21 Million - PMC

There are MANY documented cases of the AED saving lives. I got them in Springdale East and am glad we have never had to use them.
If you live in Marion Cty. contact Bob Sjogen 352-205-8280. Good Luck and you will NEVER regret doing this.

District 8. $50

The cost per unit is $1200 when your neighborhood orders them in quantity. The county will provide the boxes for location and install them for your neighborhood for free. The Villages provide compression-only CPR for free, and the county will provide an app for their alert system for free along with training.

I kinda Agree, hardly if ever used, but some like the goodie feeling. I got one across street that locked I’m willing to bet the EMT will get to my house long before some comes unlocks AED get to house unpack it and that’s if that person home at time?

The AED is programmed NOT to defibrillate someone who does not need defibrillation.

The first thing it does is take an EKG of the patient...

In my village was $100 bucks volunteer 84 units in my villa.

Well said, and I would add that having to ask for volunteers repeatedly on our community page is hard to see when you don’t really support such a cause. At my age, I’m ok with waiting for the EMS cause I’m on the back nine anyhow. Lastly, if you give to this cause make sure when the next county EMS levy is proposed that you fully support that to. The whole concept reminds me of the community watch days…..where are they now?

AED cost about $2000 need to replace pads and battery every 2 years about $700f
 

. If you need more info you can call me John Rohe MD 5167796556

These are best positioned, near activity zones, such as club houses major physical activity complexes such as tennis courts or pools. You can get one and start it in two minutes or less

45 years of actual hands on CPR, in house, and in public. Working trauma, the big difference between a professional and volunteer…we never brag about how many we have correctly administered depth, and rhythm.

We never count the amount of lives saved, although our stats can be looked up, we never need the cowboy feeling that most volunteers get, or the volunteer who announces I am here to save your life, which in reality may or may not happen.

What we rarely speak of and always hidden in our thoughts, those we couldn’t save, the newborn, infants, drowning children, abused, and the 23 yo in horrific car accident.

What I have experienced in TV for close to 20 years, unless the neighbor know the specific address among the 200-400 houses, sleeps in their clothes, even getting 4 doors down takes more than 3 minutes, and that was from a retired EMS. Active event in front of people, different event. 2 am very different outcome

Um, I believe they are (Villages owned?) but apparently we need one’s positioned throughout the neighborhoods to.

Talk with Bob Sjogren at our fire department to get direction before you act. He is the best resource.
robert.sjogren@districtgov.org

Does anyone have any statistics on the following?

How many times were the AED used in the last five years (broken down by each year)?

Of those, how many times did AED arrive before EMS?

Where AED arrived first, what were the statistics?
Did the patient survive?

I dont have that data, but i found this

The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%.
Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 7,000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED programs.”

Depends the neighborhood, our first neighborhood I used Onstar for call, FD arrived 2 minutes 57 seconds according to my onstar advisor. Really was shocked because this was a new area that was still under construction, only 4 homes occupied. In four years AED retrieved 6 times, however FD arrived before unit.

Second neighborhood, new ( younger residents less over 70) 9 years no AEDs in immediate area of 161 houses. 2 deaths non conversion due to length of time. FD on site under 4minutes.

Third neighborhood preowned 10-11yo homes, age between 77-98. In our 11 years FD was on property at 2 minutes 51 seconds to our house 3 separate occasions. Neighborhood AED pads were replaced because of expiration. In 11 years the unit arrived after FD, but you have to take into account the volunteers are also in their late 70s-90s.

Your question on survival will range differently depending on how far the FD station is.

Your last answer shouldn’t be how many survived, but broken down to how many conversions with recovery of 80-100%
How many conversions but lack of immediate CPR prior to AED cause irreversible brain damage. Which person linger for days or months before expiration.
Last is conversion on site, but expires in the bus or shortly after ED arrival.

Your questions at any Medical Facility have accurate stats. From the first second an event starts, to second of CPR start, to length of CPR with AED shock. After each event an in-depth meeting review.


In TV, your answers are acquired by Volunteers, which can vary. Each event I have been involved I can accurately give, exact account from my first evaluation to hand off of a responder.
I never used “we saved them” because those who return in any older population rarely comeback at 100%. Not because of lack of AED or improper use, but lack of immediate CPR from surviving spouses.

It’s important that a unit can arrive, But without immediate CPR on the callers part, end results will always vary. I believe CPR training for all who have a loved one in their home, for those who live alone a medical device to alert responders.

The problem in TV is you will hear a good percentage of conversion for survival. But never what percentage actually can function, or how many hours the person expires after the conversion. For some it’s all about I saved them, but no statement , but they died 5 hours later

Buy New & Refurbished AED Defibrillator At Special Discounted Prices - CalMed

They sell refurnished AEDs at a decent price.

When we move in we purchased one and just rolled it into the cost of the home. My wife (and two neighbors) are nurses and none of us are getting any younger.

I hope the unit is a waste of our money and we never have to use but I feel the same way about a generator and the air bags in our cars. LOL It was worth the peace of mind...

How difficult is it to learn CPR?

Where do you take the course? How long does it take?

Red Cross offers an online, and there is a hands on. Also private companies offer the service through RC. You can find cost online.

One can have an Active CPR events on 50 occasions, but I can tell you not one is ever the same.
I recert every 2 years, at conference, $250 to $400, that has a computerized hands on Annie(old names never go away)
The computer gives your depth, and rhythm. It also tells you it’s wrong, to pick up the pace, or slow, increase depth or less. The your patient died is also telling. TV has a large population of retired medical, military, and Leo’s. How many have actual experience no idea, other than class training.

As far as how easy, any class you get an experience the true test is actually the event. Because medical are professionals, are require ongoing education, doesn’t make you an expert.
Medical personnel knows when someone is struggling, and will announce a takeover switch. Have witnessed switching with a resident, a physician, and even an instructor during an event. The switch is flawless, and not one person is offended in anyway. Sometimes it emotion, lack of hands on, or time limit.

Same here. Every 2 years for decades. Our DC Society paid for an EMT to come to a colleague's office to give the course in adult/child CPR. and AED usage. We would take over his waiting room on a Saturday morning. Ordered pizza and soft drinks for lunch. It was a good to catch up with everyone while also honing our skills. But I've re-certified on-line the last 3-4 times...

On a humorous note, do they still recommend The Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" as the proper rhythm for chest compressions? I always found that to be funny (in a dark way)...

https://certofthevillages.org/home/public-classes/cpr/

Taught here in The Villages. They have a lot of instructors in each class to make sure you're performing CPR correctly. The manikins even have indicator lights to inform you if your cadence and depth are correct.

Queen's, Another One Bites The Dust is good too. :p

There are many perspectives on how the community should respond to someone experiencing sudden cardiac arrest. What I can tell you is the Neighbors Saving Neighbors program has broken ground over the last couple of decades in getting an AED brought to cardiac arrest victims in a rapid fashion. This is done by integrating the simultaneous notification of neighbor responders (through Pulse Point or Ready Alert) with the dispatch of emergency services. There are approximately 6000 responders with hundreds of AEDs in many (but not all) of The Villages neighborhoods. Each program is funded and operated by their respective group/neighbors- some as small as a couple dozen, or as many as 1500. Local fire-rescue units do respond quickly, sometimes they arrive before the NSN responders. That is great. Often the NSN responders arrive first. CPR and AED application is used as appropriate no matter who gets there first. There are times when the call isn't actually a cardiac arrest and other times death has occurred well before the 911 call was initiated. Response statistics are reported by TVPS monthly. If you desire more information on NSN Bob Sjogren is the contact. His number is listed above. There are opportunities for CPR/AED training and certification. Martha Mitchell is one of several contacts that provide this great training.
Sumter County is a leader in the country with citizen response to sudden cardiac arrest. They do this with using the Pulse Point app. Community notification of cardiac arrest is becoming available in a growing number of jurisdictions. Locally, Marion County uses Pulse Point. But I do not believe Lake County has it available.
Many communities are deploying AEDs and locating them at places where people gather- sports fields, parks and recreational facilities, stadiums, etc. Secure enclosures are available to keep the unit secure and weather proof. Some counties are even assigning AEDs to individuals that agree to respond with them when notified. AEDs are becoming readily accessible for public use so be on the lookout for one. Its kind of like a fire extinguisher...you hope it's never used, but death is almost certain without it. Cost can range from $600-700 for a refurbished unit to near $2000 for a new unit. Want to know how anyone can save a life: https://savestation.ca/blog/save-in-sonoma-valley-ca/
Or, Six Minutes to Live: https://youtu.be/_4XVn8cLZ9M
Training is great, but if you don't know what to do just turning on the AED and it will help you through the steps. Calling 911 will give you another opportunity for help as the dispatch personnel are well trained to support you in saving a life.
There is still more to do in getting AEDs in public areas around the region. A newly formed group is working to improve education and access. We are Advocates for Early Defibrillation and have been working for about two years to become an effective voice in the importance of being prepared when sudden cardiac arrest strikes. We offer free education and orientation to proper response to sudden cardiac arrest. I encourage you to have your community group or faith organization reach out to us and we will help prepare you for when a friend, family member, or visitor experiences a cardiac arrest.
Our Facebook page is: Log into Facebook
And our email address is: advocates.4.aeds@gmail.com
Kevin Knussman, President
Advocates for Early Defibrillation

It seems a scam to me. When we moved in, the guy down the street with the AED in his yard showed up immediately to collect his $100 and we never heard from him again.

Three years later, my wife had an apparent heart attack (which turned out to be a blood cot). Even though the fire department is less two blocks away and the AED guy half a block, it took 20 minutes for an ambulance to get there (and not the one from the nearby fire station). Nobody ever showed up with an AED. Thank God it wasn't a real heart attack!

When the EMT's moved her to the Ambulance, the clot moved to her brain and caused a stroke. They recommended HCA Ocala as the best stroke center. It took them half an hour to get there. It took me 45 minutes. In the emergency room, I asked the receptionist to buzz me in the door. She glared at me and ordered me to sit down and wait my turn. A few minutes later, a face appeared in the window, saw me there and called my name. I found my wife somewhat more coherent than when last I'd seen her, but still stroking out. A guy came up to me and asked permission to administer a clot buster. I said "they didn't do that in the ambulance"? He said no, they were worried about a brain bleed. I asked if they'd scanned for a bleed. They said yes, no bleed , and they could see the clot. I asked them, "Then what the hell are you waiting for!". He said they needed my permission (to save my wife's life!). So I signed a paper and they gave her the clot buster. The effect was almost immediate. And amazingly, she somehow survived an hour or more with a clot in her brain, with no apparent damage today. I credit divine intervention. It certainly had nothing to do with Florida healthcare. WORST I HAVE EVER SEEN in all my 71 years!

But I'm sure that guy with the AED in his yard, paid for by his neighbors, will have a much different story to report, on the day of his heart attack

I’m sorry to hear of your wife’s experience but an AED would have done her no good. An AED is only used for sudden cardiac arrest. The neighborhood AED program wouldn’t have even been notified of your wife’s condition unless you told the dispatcher that your wife wasn’t breathing. The D in AED stands for defibrillator. It will only deliver a shock to stop ventricular fibrillation.

The AED will only shock a shockable rhythm. The AED is dummy proof and that's the reason anyone can use them. Never leave someone to get an AED, start CPR and call 911. Or 911 and CPR.

Not true just because wife was breathing doesn’t mean she wasn’t on the verge of Cardiac arrest. Unless you are expressing that each caller needs to professionally diagnose exactly what the event, is. And the AED program instructs volunteers to make diagnoses telepathically.
Did OP state “My wife is having a Stroke? “ not a Cardiac Event, most likely not.

The Only Time an AED Volunteer should not be called is If the 911 caller Tells Dispatch “Do Not Notify”. Dispatch should also Not make the determination if a volunteer AED is needed. A non professional especially one that is emotionally involved isn’t going to refuse help.

All Three times I have used 911. I stated “Do Not Activate AED” volunteers. Of course not all Dispatch, will abide by the request.

AED volunteer notification is automatic...
 

The 911 operator does not have the capability to activate or not, AED volunteers. If the person calling 911 indicates "not breathing", "not responsive", or something similar the 911 operator enters the code defining the type of emergency. The computer system automatically dispatches the nearest available emergency response unit(s) and notifies the volunteer responders subscribed to PulsePoint and ReadyAlert. Again the 911 operator has NO control over the response notification system.

So when the 911 responsed for non breathing event, to my request he was incorrect..3 times.

The caller needs to diagnose, breath or non viable. Then if breath stops, after exchange, does the code change to alert a different code, that breath has ceased? 911 stays online until caller disconnects, is there a default to change the code?

In our mandatory 911 training, years ago, information sent automatically to local station, while continuing to advise CPR, choking, wound, or drowning information. Sometimes the caller had no idea if breath could be detected, or not capable of communicating information. I don’t know was common, especially in the young or elderly.

OF COURSE IT WOULD HAVE DONE NO GOOD! And thank heavens for that! If it had been an actual heart attack, SHE'D BE DEAD because NOBODY EVER SHOWED UP when I called 911 and TOLD THEM MY WIFE WAS HAVING A HEART ATTACK!

The only guy benefiting from the AED that my entire neighborhood paid for is the guy with the AED in his front yard.

If the closest ambulance is out on another call, or for any reason no ambulance available at the closest EMT, they will alert the next closest. This could add 5 minutes to response time. The trained neighbors would be at the scene first and already doing CPR.

That's not how our system works. They will not activate if someone is "on the verge" of anything. If you state to the 911 operator that someone is not breathing and/or has no pulse that's the only time the neighborhood AED team will get toned out.

Should you be the one that an AED saves, then that $100, $475, or even $1000 for that matter is money happily spent.

As others have said, an AED will only shock a patient for whom a shock is required. The shock defibrillates the heart. Stops the heart from fibrillating (becoming a quivering mass of uselessness). Essentially what that means is that it stops a heart that is quivering in order for it to restart in a regular, sustainable rhythm. It's a reset button for the heart. If the heart isn't quivering, a shock (aka reset) is not useful.

The best thing is immediate CPR, but there are caveats. Forget about the mouth-to-mouth for now, that is secondary.

The purpose of the CPR is to manually circulate blood to the organs, especially the brain. That requires about 100 compressions per minute and they must be deep (adult = 2 to 2.5 inches) enough to be effective.

Of course, that depth will also crack ribs and tear cartilage from the rib cage. It is a sickening sound, but is required for CPR to be effective. The most important thing for CPR is to be continual, the blood pressure must be kept up or else it is useless.

Now, you try pressing 2.5 inches into your sofa cushion 100 times per minute and tell me how many minutes you last. If you last more than 5, I'd be shocked. It is exhausting even after 1 minute. That is the effort required for high success ratios.

A heart attack and cardiac arrest are two different things. A heart attack is generally muscular or circulatory in nature. In other words it's muscle damage or a blockage. Cardiac arrest is electrical. The brain has basically lost control of the heart's rhythm. You can have a heart attack and still be conscious and breathing. If you're in cardiac arrest you're basically dead. CPR is used to keep oxygenated blood flowing to the brain to keep it alive long enough for the defibrillator to do its job.

Now if you're saying that the Fire Department didn't show up when you called, that's a problem. If you're saying that the neighborhood AED team didn't show up, they weren't supposed to.