Disappointed in my fellow golfers
 

I have played two execs the last two days and was disappointed to find unrepaired ball marks and unraked traps on almost every hole! I see all the complaints about the condition of our courses, but so many are not doing the bare minimum to care for the courses we have!

Welcome to The Villages.

Not that’s an excuse for golfers lack of course etiquette, but you could drive a tank over the greens of the last two executives we played and it wouldn’t make any difference. In our ten years as Villages we have never seen such horrific greens, and both courses were recently renovated with the latest and greatest hybrid grass. I wouldn’t even consider putting on them since it would ruin my game for when I play a real course.

What were the two courses?

Some are too lazy walk from cart path around green to green, they drive right up to edge of green waddle 15 feet then back in cart. They not going bend over pick up rake or fix divot. It only take few rotten apples to ruin the bushel. But, that goes on every where. My pet peeve pool players grinding caulk onto table while caulking the cues. Then lay the caulk down upside down on table rail spreading more caulk. I’m willing bet more than few has no clue? :oops:

Silver Lake and Chula Vista

Here's what I do instead of complaining about people who may be elderly and have physical limitations:

When I'm on a green, I fix my pitch mark and any others I see.

When I'm in a bunker/trap, I rake my spot and any other footprints I see.

When I'm on a fairway, I'll fill my divot and any other unfilled divot in that area (same for tee boxes).


What you can control is what YOU do; not what others do or don't do. And don't judge a person until you walk a mile in their moccasins. (Yes I realize not everyone who neglects to do those things have physical limitations, but that doesn't affect what I can do to improve conditions I come across.)

I've in an around the Golf business for 40 years. The complaints about Ball Marks & Raking Bunkers hasn't changed in those 40 years. It's epidemic.

That said, golfer's tend to exert only as much effort and consideration, as management expends. I've belonged to 8-10 Private Clubs through the years. The more expensive/exclusive the clubs are, the better the members take care of it.

If you come across a bunker, without a footprint in it, most players will rake that bunker when they're done with it. Same as fixing a ball mark. If you land on a green without a ball mark and make one, most players will fix it.

There in lies the problem The effort and consideration of golfers, is directly related to the effort shown by ownership. In other words, if ownership presents a golf course that's in $hitty condition, no one cares ... why should they? If management doesn't do their job, golfers can't be expected to do it for them.

In 1973 I visited Disneyland in Los Angeles. I was fascinated by how "clean" the place was. They cleaned the roads every night and the place was immaculate. I would have been embarrassed to drop a cigarette butt. The same applies to golf courses.

I do exactly as you say and hope I am getting those who can't fix their own, but know that is not always the case.

You fix your pitch mark and one other.

You rake the bunker.

You carry a sand bottle and fill your divots.

You learn how to do all three of those things correctly.

Thats pretty much all you can do. You waste of stress and energy to overly internalize a problem that been with us in golf forever. At private clubs members have a sense of ownership and take better care of the course. There is a little of that here, but not much.

It's like everyday life.. the givers and the takers. Sure there are some disabled golfing but if they're that disabled that they harm the course conditions, should they be golfing? My money is on the takers, they've always sucked off society and no nagging will change them.

I don't think disabled golfers are a big factor in this. First, there aren't all that many disabled golfers even in the villages. Second, every golf club in the world has this problem to some extent not just those with many disabled golfers. Third, the able playing partners almost always rake the bunkers for a disabled player (if they even hit out of bunkers, which seriously disabled players don't).

I think the biggest factor is the "broken window effect". Once a bunker with unraked footprints is encountered, the following players mostly don't rake it either.

With pitch marks, its peer pressure, if your playing partners all fix their pitch marks right away, you will too. So fix your marks, and your partners will too, as will the people behind you who see you doing it. People also fix ball marks without the reminder of partners doing it, just not consistently enough. I think weak hitters whose balls often don't even make a pitch mark, are the most forgetful.

Where else have you been playing ?
I fix 5+ ball marks on every executive green in TV. Frustrating !!

100%. Played Chula Vista last week. It seems like I fixed 4 or 5 ball marks on every green.
Yes there are some disabled golfers, but most of it is just pure laziness.

Unfortunately I see this on every course we play. I fixed quite a few ball marks at Bonifay yesterday, although not as many as on the execs.

Snow Birds
 

How can that possibly be? The snowbirds aren't even there.

Welcome to golf! Same all over the world.

I make it my mission to repair three or four ball marks before I leave a green. I have the same attitude concerning litter.

Wait till the peak times. The sense of entitlement runs large.

True. But sometimes it comes down to the people just not understanding. Awhile back I saw a guy take a pullcart onto a green on the first hole of an exec. course. We caught up to them a couple of holes later and I mentioned that he shouldn't be doing that, and that it would arouse the ire of the Ambassador if he/she was in the vicinity and saw it happen. He honestly didn't know, and thanked me for telling him. His cart was well away from the green on the rest of the holes, as far as we could see.

They are the same people that leave their trash at the squares when they leave.

Amen!

If "everyone" repaired their own mark plus one would be anything to complain about.

Many OPs cannot bend over to take their ball out of cup. Yet, you expect them to repair a ball mark or divot. 😁

Not to mention the cigar and cigarette butts that are everywhere!

So sad but true the lazy, handicapped , don't give s--ts, and let the ambassadors do it crowd are not "golfers" just wannbe's with no skills much less course etiquette.
Along with dog crap, brain dead drivers and happy hours, life in The Villages.

since it would ruin my game for when I play a real course
 

Help me to understand why you were playing? the last two executives we played I wouldn’t even consider putting on them since it would ruin my game for when I play a real course.[/QUOTE]

Well Said
 

Lets hi-light a few factors here first.........

1. There are not enough rakes at the bunkers here..min. of 2, 3 on larger bunkers
2. Anyone who wants to stay a member at a private golf course takes care of the course or will be cursed and ultimately tossed
3. Most players here top the ball and create less ball marks if they all made ball marks it would become a bunker and not a green
4. most players here only fix a ball mark if its in their putting line

The reason for the above= most players here are recreational hackers and not golfers, no self respecting golfer would leave a divot or a ball mark

Sadly, most started later in life and were not taught the first commandment of golf:
Proper Care of the course. The second being etiquette.

We are inundated with new golfers and unless you educate them when you find them you are the problem.......best to educate them one at a time..........

And shame on all the golf clinics that don't start with care of the course and etiquette :eclipsee_gold_cup:

I am extremely disappointed in the elite class, as well as neighborly class as well, for stuff i can't control, mostly for stupid decisions. . . but I digress. .

humans are lazy, and humans are herding animals, so if the herd doesn't care, the individuals learn to follow along. . seems to be showing up everywhere right now. .

Agree but still need bigger rakes. Current rakes take 2x more strokes than the larger ones and a person can drag the bigger rakes and clean up their foot prints,

"dragging" is not the proper way to rake a bunker. Geez!!!

I've never played an executive course here, but I would think they would take the brunt of the pitch marks because the holes are short so you have a lot of people firing into the greens with wedges. On the championship courses you would likely have more people rolling the ball up on the green old-man style or missing the green and chipping. If neither group is fastidious about their pitch marks, the executives would end up with more and deeper pitch marks.

If I were to come up with one, overriding complaint about The Villages, it would be ...

.... "that's how we've always done it, so we're not going to change".

It's true in every aspect of TV and especially, the District. Witness the discussions about access passes, guard houses and especially, Executive Golf courses.

If I were king for day, I'd get rid of almost every bunker on the executive golf courses. They're not necessary, they're maintenance intensive and always the subject of complaints. There are numerous approaches to replacing them ... waste areas, mounds, collection areas, run offs, punch bowls, etc. Collection areas that funnel into small, "pot type" bunkers, are way less maintenance. The actual "sand area" can be raked in 20 seconds.

Then I'd change the horticultural practices, to increase the "hardness" of the Greens. Yes, it's more expensive to maintain fast, hard greens, but they're way less susceptible to ball marks, so it all balances out.

The world of golf course maintenance is changing. There's no rule that says golf courses are required to be "green". That's changing all over the country, but TV has always been mired in the past.

The privileged/entitled have this belief that they don’t have to stoop so low as to rake bunkers, sand their divots, fix ball marks, keep their carts away from the greens - the list could go on and on. 😡

Not a week goes by, there's not a thread about this ... don't folks get tired of beating a dead horse?

EVERY complaint people make, can be made about most every golf course in the USA.

What's the old saying, about doing the same thing, over & over & over again ... & expecting a different result?

The average, beginner, recreational, older golfer is not going to change. They're not going to rake bunkers, they're not going to fit ball marks. It's up to those who supply the golf courses, to design, build and maintain golf courses, suitable for the people who are going to use them.

The Villages designs and builds Executive golf courses, like real golfers are going to use them. They don't. It's a foolish assumption..

Repairing divots is good exercise.

The way I look at golf courses in TV is as an extension of my own backyard or property. If people look at them in that light they will take care of them better…IMO