Done with Saint Augustine - Can I Replace it with Zoysia?
 

I hate our St Augustine "lawn" and am strongly considering replacing it with Zoysia turf which our friends up in CDD 10 have. We're only 8 months into this new lawn and already fighting invasive Bermuda and torpedo grass (I can address). But both our dogs and guests have refused to walk on it - how embarrassing - since it's really not a grass IMHO.

Has anyone done this successfully?

I understand how it's not recommended as both St. Augustine and, to a lesser extent, Zoysia can penetrate into neighboring yards but we're on a corner lot Veranda with a wall (solid bottom) behind us. And our lawn's only direct contact with our neighbor's lawn is under the mock fence for which we are likely landscaping with metal and 2' of rock to create a barrier between the yards. I also mow and treat my own yard so no issues with contractors equipment spreading seeds/weeds.

Why do your dogs and guests refuse to walk on the St Augustine? I cut my St Augustine a little lower than recommended....2.5-3" height instead of the recommended 4". That helps with walkability.

If your lawn were eventually taken over by Bermuda would that be so bad? St Augustine, Bermuda and Zoysia all spread via runners. Doesn't seem like that is a discriminator.

But If you want Zoysia I would think you could do it, its just expensive and would need ARC approval, which you would probably get.

Have you read you deed restrictions? Look for a line item that talks about keeping your lawn consistent with the neighborhood.

2-3 years ago we were looking at homes in Harbor Hills and noticed that they were now using St. Augustine. Were told that this was now the preferred grass. Zoysia was not doing well.

I have St A.at the back zoysia at the front. The dividing line is half way and covered by bushes so unless you’re cutting the grass it’s hard to tell. The house came that way. My neighbors are similar. I like zoysia better but it seems more sensitive, and gets burned more easily. Mole crickets seem to love it. I mow no more than once a week in the summer. St A loves to grow fast. So far it has not been particularly invasive, staying mostly at the back. But I’m not sure I’d like it at the front too.

Thanks for all the responses - very helpful. I'm replying in aggregate here:

* Dogs/Guests not liking walking on it: I believe they find is "prickly" even after a mowing. I mow myself, at least weekly in summer and now up to 10-14 days between, and cut it shorter than recommended.

* Bermuda Grass (invasive) replacing: I don't think you can really remove one from the other - at last not with significant work - especially for Floratam Saint Augustine, which is the varietal I think we have here in CDD 15. So, sure, I could let the Bermuda go wild (I'm currently "plucking" and spot treating as much as possible) but it would never fully replace the existing Saint Augustine.

* Nothing in our deed restrictions about keeping consistent turf with neighbors - just maintaining appearance (mowing and edging). And how do I know if this (lawn replacement) needs ARC approval? I was going to submit it just to be safe, as I'm likely adding this to a larger landscaping application, but as a new Villager I'm unaware of the delineations for "not-an-HOA" ARC approval.
EDIT: I see in our ARC manual: "Existing sod or other plant material shall only be replaced with sod or other plant material. Rock is not an acceptable replacement for sod or other plant material(s) except as an accent material in
approved landscaping beds." So, I can replace sod with sod...or even other "plant material" but nothing about it requiring approval. I understand hardscaping but what about replacing existing elements (e.g. the flowerwood pringles they installed with a bottlebrush or their crepe myrtle with or a robellini / pygmy palm), exterior painting within approved color schemes, flag poles, sod?

* I've heard Zoysia requires more maintenance, but I suspect that depends on the variety installed and I would gladly pay top dollar for the easiest to maintain / most resilient. If anyone has any suggestions or experience with this, please let me know!

Thanks again.

Pretty much everything outside the house requires approval. Even if you repaint with approved colors, for example, it requires approval unless it is the exact same color.

But, particularly in the south, its a low key process. There is one guy with an assistant sitting in a room at Ezell recreation center with a stack of applications that is about 2 feet high. He spends about 30 seconds on each one. Maybe he previews them in advance ...not sure. There are things that are routinely modified, like landscaping closer than 3' from the line or gazebos that are really sheds or additions. By by-and-large they are all approved. So there is not much to worry about, provided you are proposing something compliant. I went to a meeting a few weeks ago and did not see any applications rejected. Of course nobody proposed anything crazy either.

I have heard there is a committee of a few people and more scrutiny in the north, but I have no first hand experience to confirm that.

Zoysia is horrible. Needs constant watering and burns out quickly.

Neither is great but I would not switch to Zoysia.

"Up in CDD 10" which makes me believe you are south of 44. South of 44 the St Augistine is "Provista" which is prone to Take all Patch unless treated properly with the correct fungicide, trace elements, and you keep the ph low. All the more reason you should replace it. I've had good luck with the Flortan variety of St. Augistine but if you don't want St. Augistine you can go with Zoysia. You'll have more problems with the St.A from next door moving into your Zoysia. Check your deed restrictions.

I have had zoysia for 10 years. My son in Minneola has st augustine. I prefer the zoysia. Every grass has different issues. My neighbor had his whole lawn removed and replaced with a form of st augustine and it looks good but mixing grasses is probably not a good idea. They look different and grow at different rates. St augustine looks weedy and rough and seems to take a long time to recover. As a matter of fact, the state of Florida does allow lawn substitutions, such as sunshine mimosa, which supersede local ordinances although you rarely see anyone doing it. It also allows people to install synthetic turf which I would prefer to see instead of rocks.

Dog shoes!

Forget Zoysia
 

Is your lawn green!!!!!!!!!! Thats all that matters............

Great that dogs don't like it, less poop. If people don't like to walk on it make sure they wear shoes. Why are they walking on your lawn anyway!

There is something deeper bothering you about the lawn, is it riddled with bare spots, is it riddled with bugs, thats what zoysia will get you.

Take a ride around the villages, you will not see very many good lawns, especially with zoysia, it takes too long to grow, not as aggressive as ST. Augustine.

Is there a deeper need here for the lawn?

Zoysia was never a good grass in this part of FL. Not going to list all the reasons, but TV went BACK to Floratam.
You may need top soil added to your St Aug. Is it spongy feeling?
As St Aug. goes, Pro Vista is junk, good ol' Floratam is best. Not great for high traffic, but recovers from issues quickly. All turf will have issues.
The grass with the least number of issues and lowest maintenance is Centipede. Hands down. But the more expensive and/or extensive installation.
NO ONE is getting rid of Bermuda. Beware of the "latest and greatest that now ACTUALLY WORKS" claims. The claims have been around for decades.
Bahia is a great grass here as well. but has it's downsides.
Add some topsoil to your lawn, mow it, remove broadleaf weeds by hand. Fertilize and acidify your 7.2 pH, and don't turn your irrigation off because it rained a couple days in a row. 3 days a week of water is best.

If you are convinced you need to totally replace your existing St. Augustine lawn, which I assume is Pro Vista, you might consider another variant...Citra Blue. Pro Vista is notoriously susceptible to Take All Root Rot, and is not very resistant to insects. The Citra Blue variant is much more resistant to disease and insects, it is softer to the touch, and grows more slowly...meaning less frequent mowing. I know a few people who have switched to Citra Blue, and they love it.

I tried putting Zoysia turf next to my driveway to replace some Flortam that Massey killed when they fouled up my lawn. The Zoysia spread under the StAugustine and under some concrete flower bed borders, and under the driveway, but it did not spread over the StAugustine next to it.

All the green grass along the interstate and most other roads in FL is Bahia. Bahia roots go down 4 or 5 feet. No watering required. With a minimum of care Bahia can be beautiful. Builders in Deltona and other places use Bahia .I had a beautiful Bahia lawn in St Pete. Both varieties of grass that are used by the Villages are the latest and greatest patented University of Florida grasses. When builders go to U of Florida ag people for recommendations, that’s what you get. My parents had a beautiful Bahia lawn with no sprinklers when they retired to Florida 59 years ago.

Funny to read this today. Yesterday my lawn service guy said they could control the weeds and crabgrass better in Zoysia than in St. Augustine which is looking terrible. I should consider switching. Not sure what I'm going to do.

I've lived in Florida for 40 years with several different type grass lawns and the Empire Zoysia grass I have had for 13 years in the Villages is easily the worst lawn ever. Don't do it.

Zoraida is no better than… both horrible.

You can change your grass but if a complaint is made that the grass type is different than what it originally was the CDD can make you replace it. If you request a change of type of grass they will deny it as it is against the deed restrictions to change the type of grass originally installed, at least that's the way it works in CDD 6. It's a gamble I would not want to have to deal with.

hate to tell you this but you will still have the same problems.... and by the way that St aug. only gets cut at 3" no higher or lower. ....but you'll still have the problems of Bermuda and the other crap in anything you put in.

No one has mentioned Centipede grass ?

If Florida ALLOWS synthetic turf, why is it seldom seen in The Villages? And what is the story on Sunshine Mimosa (which sounds like a drink at a bar)?

Scotts Viridian St Augustine Grass New In 2025
– LawnCareNut

New improved Scott’s st Augustine grass

Not sure if it is allowed in the first place but the reason I would not do artificial turf because no matter how much it costs, it looks cheap and low class. In the winter when everybody’s grass is mostly brown, mine would be artificially emerald green. No thank you.

We have Zoysia and have found that weeds and invasive grasses grow quite well in it. I have to combat weeds regularly to keep the lawn looking nice. My next door neighbor has a St. Augustine lawn and it looks much nicer, with less work to maintain it. St. Augustine is much hardier than Zoysia. However, we find Zoysia nicer to walk on than St. Augustine. Our dog likes to run and play on both Zoysia and St. Augustine.

I had the original St. Augustine ProVista grass since we purchased new in 2020. Last year for some reason it died out from either chinch bugs, or over watering. Either way Fertigator came out to see if they could bring it back. No such luck. They recommended a complete sod replacement.
I contacted Chessari Sod (their family owns a sod farm) for an estimate on complete replacement. He told me that the ProVista variant is new, and not doing well here in The Villages. This variant tends to break down from all the fertilizers that are placed after a few years.
He suggested the St. Augustine Floratam sod. This variant has been around for some time, and can handle fertilizers much better.
It’s been over a year since I had it installed, and I must say I probably have the nicest lawn in the neighborhood.

Sod
 

I just replaced some sod in front yard with zoysia because that’s what the rest of it is. Have st. Augustine in most rest of yard. Had lots of dead spots plus quantum not replacing what they dug up. Got it from Cottoms A-1 sod in Weirsdale. $1500 installed. The owner said Zoysia is a dying bread around Florida. Needs more water and more insect prone. He has to go to the panhandle to get zoysia while st. Augustine around Orlando. He said in a couple years st. Augustine will be king.

There would be a lot of advantages to plastic grass, which has improved in quality and looking real in recent years. One advantage would be less fertilizer RUNOFF into the lake, which would make the lakes cleaner with less plant scum on the surface. Also home owners would save money on no noisy professional grass cutters, which would reduce the speeding trucks with trailers racing around the neighborhoods. Air quality would be improved. People could concentrate on putting nice looking flowers and shrubs in their yard. Instead of spending excess money on boring and often ugly grass. And did I mention less pollution from noisy lawnmowers. Both plastic grass and stone yards are beautiful to me because I also see the environmental improvement factors.

I understand, but had I seen any artificial turf when I was looking to buy in TV I would have bought somewhere else. We are getting away from plastic bags, to be replaced by plastic grass?

Yes,12 years ago Allan Sod did ours.

Thanks for your reply. I would like to point out that plastic lawns and plastic bags are 2 very different animals. Plastic lawns are GOOD for the reasons that I mentioned in my prior reply. Plastic BAGS are VERY different and YES ......they are bad. Plastic LAWNS do not blow around and get caught tangled up with a bird or other animal. Plastic lawns do NOT end up in lakes or the ocean to cause problems. I believe that they are superior than grass for the environment. Rock gardens are also better. Even The Villages uses low growing plants that require cutting only once per month as permanent accents.

Agreed. And what about all of the FOSSIL FUELS needed to produce the PLASTIC grass? I'm sure there would be no environmental impact there, right? ;)

As for astroturf-type lawns - if it's a small lot, it can be made to look lovely. Upsides: no fertilizer needed. If you get insects on them, just spray them off with the hose - no pesticides needed. No mowing, no blowing, no edging, no maintenance. Dogs are less likely to poop on astroturf than they are the neighbor with real plant lawns. Also, astroturf can be made from recycled plastic, so no need for new "virgin" petroleum materials.

Some of them are soft enough to sit on them, which would make old fashioned picnics, and outside yoga and pilates exercise a more practical and attractive option than with the typical Florida lawn materials, which can be so harsh and sharp you can't even stand on them barefoot without getting indentations in the bottom of your feet (if the fire ants don't get to you first).

St Augustine grass very native to Florida. If the OP has problems, make sure they have a yard service to regularly treat it.