Governor kills high speed rail
 

Fla. governor Scott decided today not to accept $ 2.4 Billion from the federal government to build the new high speed passenger railroad between Orlando airport and Tampa. This project has been in the planning stage for more than 20 years, with widespread support.
What a terrible mistake this is.

:agree:

Shouldn't this be in the political thread?:shrug:

This item was voted on by the people of Florida a few years back and we didn't want it then. There isn't public transportation in this country that pays it's own way. :pepper2:

"This item was voted on by the people of Florida a few years back and we didn't want it then."

Maybe you didn't, but the voters of Florida approved it.

More on that
 

I tried to edit my earlier post to add that the vote was in a November 2000 constitutional referendum.

more
 

Great News http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/high-...-new-york.html

am new to this discussion of the rail line...could you explain why you think this is a mistake...i can't figure who might benefit from this hi-speed line...do you know what the daily ridership would be...is their a regular commuter line there now...trying to find the details thru newsspaper archives is rough!

thanx for any background resource info you can provide.

Regardless of how one feels about the HS Rail situation, I'd like to provide a link for anyone who would be interest in the passenger rail situation in our country that includes both pro and con opinions and may also include not only sensible postings, but some not-so-sensible postings as well. In otherwords... reader beware! The link is:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...hopping-block/

Also, I did agree with the original poster plus I am an Amtrak supporter, but my opinions stems not from politics, but from personal experience. For instance, my son lives in LA and I live in upstate NY. (as well as The Villages now) I cannot fly and driving that distance would be quite a physical discomfort with an unreasonable and unacceptable length of time to make the trip and return. That means, but for Amtrak and their Handicapped Accessable bedrooms, I would never be able to visit our son in CA. I'm fairly sure that there are probably many others that would be in the same or similar situations as I am.

But dispite all that, it does not mean that my opinion about HR cannot be swayed with the correct argument being presented. In that light I did find a posting at the same website as above that does a good job of giving me pause to think about the feasibility of the ORL>TPA HS plan. Click this link:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...ost__p__275058

We lived in Tampa and a rail is very much needed to connect Tampa to Orlando. It really irks me that New York might get OUR money.

The difference between the USA and other countries is that we have the interstate system. Very few would actually use the rail. It's a white elephant, just like AMTRAK.

With all due respect, I and many would hardly call Amtrak a white elephant. Speaking of my personal experience only and I don't travel as miuch by train as many do, but I currently do have over 42,400 rail miles with another 4,000+ scheduled for this year alone, And as I previously stated, I would not be able to travel cross country to visit my son if it were not for Amtrak.

If Amtrak were privitized I doubt that it would be any better, without subsidization and the passenger cost would rise from the already substantial to a level that could make it unsubstainable and drive a large portion of the ridership to air travel, which would quite possibly raise passenger cost up their as well as the already current crowding in airports becoming even more over crowded.

My wife and I have traveled from ALB to CHI then on every train that goes from CHI to and from the pacific coast as well as Texas. I've rarely seen a station waiting room that wasn't fairly crowded and trains that were not full. There are many that cannot even get train reservations because of demand, and many more passengers could be handled if they had the capacity, which they don't because of a lack of adequate federal support, much like the level that air travel gets.

Now someone mentioned that they don't like that NY is getting their (meaning FL) money. Again, with all due respect, it's not FL's or NY's money. It's the tax payers money. I agree that Orlando<>Tampa could use rail service, but with regular rail service as mentioned in the Times Union article and not necessary as HSR any more that it's really needed from NYC to upstate NY.

One final thought, if we one day get HSR everywhere its wanted, what's next? Demands for the development of matter transporters like were in sci-fi movies like in "Star Trek" or "The Fly"?
http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/anim...eys/insect.gif

Maybe if there was a PLAN for a HS network and the
 

Orlando to Tampa and back was a piece it might look like we were entertaining a system that some day could offset oil driven/dependent cars.
Sorta like an interstate system but for HS trains.
A roadmap (no pun intended) of where the HS system would be some day in the future.....instead of just pushing one very little segment serving Orlando/Tampa.

Are you ready to step up to the plate and pay a sur charge on gasoline/groceries/etc to help pay for the system?

Why is it that there are no investors standing in line to provide monies needed for such a venture?

One of the above post suggested Amtrak would do no better if they were private. I disagree. If they were private they would be performing to the expectations of the owners and customers who expect to make a profit.

The federal government has no such requirement. And has the benefit of over running costs without the worry of the banks pulling the string.

I also do not agree this subject is political. Is building a new road in TV political? Could be I guess.

btk

Suits me just fine, thats why we voted him in, we cant stand any more tax increases.

Leading the list was the train traveling between New Orleans and Los Angeles – the Sunset Limited – which lost $462 per passenger. Taxpayers subsidize the losses to keep the passenger train service running. :censored:

If it was a good deal, and a money maker, private business interests would be looking at this and lining up investors to pursue this rail project. The truth is that all rail in this country has to be subsidized by the TAXPAYER. The high speed rail projects being touted for this country are unworkable, unwanted and unsustainable.

Good Move
 

Why do you have the need to be connected to Orlando from Tampa? It's an easy highway ride. Large populations need mass transit and these two cities don't fit into that group. The Gov made the right move. Riders would have been minimal and we would be stuck with bill.

I agree. The government would provide 2.4B, but the state would have to spend 3B. Scott said the use of the train wouldn't justify the cost. He is a very successful businessman and I'm sure knows what he's talking about. In my opinion for whatever it's worth, is that most people that want it are only fascinated in the concept of having a high speed rail system, and there is not much use for a Tampa to Orlando train. Now a Orlando to New York would be another story.

Following the above paragraph taken from http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...ubsidies_N.htm is the following:

"The Northeast corridor has the highest passenger volume of any Amtrak route, greatly enhancing efficiency. The corridor's high-speed Acela Express made a profit of about $41 per passenger. The more heavily utilized Northeast Regional lost almost $5 per passenger.

Passenger rail systems throughout the world lose money and require government subsidies to cover operating expenses."

Sometimes information taken out of context does not tell the whole story and these three paragraphs don't as well. Reading the entire article does!

Kids...we can't get anything new until we pay off our old bills.

If only Gracie, if only.

The HS train issue is a real time political football...cut costs
 

but do not cut ANY costs that affect ME, MY STATE, MY SPECIAL INTERESTS, MY SUPPORTERS or MY JOBS...ala Bill Nelson...as well as all the rest.

btk

A little information about public transportation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/nyregion/03mta.html

Maybe the route could include a stop in TV. May be able to make a buck or two with the large population of residents from the NE. Would anyone rather ride the train in comfort rather than drive for two days either way? What would make it nice would be a regular speed auto train. One of the problems with train travel is that the routes do not always get you near to your destination. Try going from Florida to Houston via rail. I believe you need to go all the way to Chicago and then back down.

I would like to see high speed rail from the NY area (New Jersey) to southern Florida. I don't know if a high speed auto-train would work. There are a number of problems with the current auto-train. It only goes to Virginia because it won't make the tunnels in the DC area with the larger car carriers. It operates on old rights of way which are not conducive to high speeds and the rights of way are ( I believe ) owned by CSX. Passenger traffic always has to give way to freight traffic which slows things down. The eastern corridor would be the perfect site for a high speed auto-train with limited stops. I suppose the cars would have to be placed in car carriers that could be simply uncoupled at such stops since on-loading and off-loading would take lots of time. It's something that could be done but with lots of changes to the existing system which means lots of cash. The tremendous distances in this country sounded the death knell to long distance trains with the advent of air travel. But, they certainly do have their place in regional and coastal service. The trouble is we are very far behind in taking rail seriously and now it may be way too expensive to catch up.

Who, whom or what said Orlando-Tampa is the best route
 

for HS rail service?
It would be nice to see options that serve the needs of the people and not the politicians and their special interest supporters.

However, if I were Scott I would say OK, you want the HS rail project....show me the other programs to cut instead where the $3 billion ++ will be offset.

REMEMBER? The man is trying to respond to the fact there is no money for the project!!! What do the rest of you do when you don't have the money/ability to pay?

The federal government has to borrow 40 cents on the dollar to "give" FL $2.5 billion....like the politicians in Washington, way too many people don't care where the money comes from or whether we have it or not.

btk

Ask O'Toole about trans costs
 

More public transportation info:

http://www.bostonherald.com/projects...wages.DESC//4/

Is the high speed rail about jobs for Floridians or even Americans? Where would the trains be built? Do we build them anywhere in the USA? I don't believe we do.
http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009..._compete.shtml
I realize there is far more to the train system than the vehicles on the track, but I'm just saying...

TV would be way out of the way in an Orlando Tampa route and I don't think you'll ever see that happen in HS. It would be nice though if Amtrak's bus route from St. Petersburg to Jacksonville that currently passes through Wildwood were developed into a rail route instead. That way you'd have regular rail service between the Tampa area to both Orlando and Jacksonville where transfer can happen to a north/south route. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen too because Amtrak has never been adequately funded to develope new routes like that.

As an AutoTrain user I would like to see more of those auto train routes developed. But as I already said, not enough funding for that kind of development. In the future it would at least be nice to see a coast-to-coast run from the central Atlantic coast to the central Pacific coast as well as from LA to Seattle. But even that much is probably wishful dreaming on my part!

As for your comments about getting to Huston... I hear you there. My coast to coast Amtrak travel has been from Albany-Rensselaer NY with one stop in Chicago. Fairly convenient! However, with the elimination of the FL to New Orleans portion of the Sunset Limited, travel from Florida to the west coast would require four days of travel with two layovers... one in Washington DC and the other in Chicago. I'm afraid I'll have to endure that route in the future unless the Sunset Limited is one day restored from Florida all the way through to California.
http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/ne...-train-205.gif

I think this is the only answer that will work. Have to live within your budget.

BTK:

I have to agree with you. I always ran my house this way. If we don't have the money we don't need it and especially we don't borrow money to get it.

btk
 

I'm probably going to kick myself, but I agree that if you've got the bucks, which the state of Fla. doesn't, then and only then SPEND.....BUT btk you must take a "be nice pill", I know in your heart of heart you are probably not near as MEAN as you come across on TOTV, Right?







The HS train issue is a real time political football...cut costs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but do not cut ANY costs that affect ME, MY STATE, MY SPECIAL INTERESTS, MY SUPPORTERS or MY JOBS...ala Bill Nelson...as well as all the rest.

:shocked::shocked:

I t seems there is no real need - and it reminds me of the rail service in Miami - underused and downright dangerous to ride.

I am a HUGE fan of mass transit where it makes sense - here I just can't see it. Better spent to get transit from LGA and JFK into Manhattan.

We are all for the HS rail. It will bring jobs to Fl., promote tourism as well as removing some cars off the interstate. I don't see where all the fuss is about.
:agree:

Good question! You might find an answer to it by checking this website: http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

Hs rail?it would be cheeper to fly,who will run this amtrac, as a former northeasterner the rail s are slow , did you know that frieght has the right of way good luck i say no abig waste of $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Good (IMO) blog on the rail from The Economist... It takes many of your opinions into consideration...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulli...ottfloridarail

Just what we need! Another Amtrak to eat up the taxpayers money. Grant money for the construction is great, but the operating costs can't be covered.

Just noting that frieght has the right of way over passenger trains because frieght companies own most of the tracks in the United States. Again, I'm just noting that for informational purposes since I didn't see it mentioned previously.

let ny have it is there any passenger railroad that makes money?