IRS Investigation - tax-free bonds
 

The IRS has been investigating TV regarding the issuance of tax-free bonds to pay for infrastructure. The situation was discussed extensively on the internet and in newspapers.

The financial impact from a negative settlement on residents would be the main issue that would deter us from moving to TV.

For some reason, there has been no discussion or news published about the situation for almost a year. Does anyone know if the issue has been settled or can advise on its current status?

Thank you.

Oh Boy!!!!! :boom:

IRS investigation
 

As far as I know there is no news. We are still all waiting for the outcome.

You know what we know. No worries here! 86 degrees yesterday on the car thermometer on the way back from lunch at TooJays in Lake Sumter Landing. I don't spend one second thinking about the IRS inquiry. Bah Dah :boom:!!!

Xavier

We live fulltime in The Villages, and it is a concern of ours. If the decision were to go against The Villages, and the bonds were required to be re-issued as taxable bonds, I think it could prove quite costly to Villagers. There are those who disagree with me. We really don't have a handle on what the impact will be to the residents. In any event, it has kept us from upgrading our house. I look at a house as an investment, and if I'm not sure I can get the bulk of my money back, I'm not going to put a lot of money into a home.

We are on, what, the third agent working on this issue? The lead agents seem to get promoted off the case.

Looking at a house as an investment is a mistake.....ala 2008-2009.

Well said!:ho:

Isn't that supposed to be.......

Peace and Love
 

Gee. Didn't think I would start all this "Binging" and "Booming." So sorry if I hit a sore spot.

We were just trying to gather enough info to avoid making a retirement mistake.

I respectfully suggest that we just let this baby go back to sleep......


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

...but I couldn't find a "BING" emotion, so had to settle for Bah Dah :boom:!!!

IRS Bond Issue
 

Taj44 I happen agree with you. This issue is much more than whether the bonds should have been tax free. Friend or foe you won't get a straight answer from anyone around here. Someone mentioned on another thread to read Leisureville for some insight regarding TV which is good advice before you buy here. The author stayed with neighbors who had moved down here and invited him down. I met these folks once when playing golf. I wonder if they still live here? I pray it all works out well for all of us.

Oh please don't be offended, but this work horse has been beaten into a sea-horse. I can't for the life of me come up with a scenario where the IRS would come back on 80,000 plus residents for something that they had absolutely nothing to do with. I honestly believe that this will either just go away or be taken care of by the developer. In my simple mind (I openly admit that) I really wouldn't waste any energy worrying about it.

Xavier

I guess that was my point. Houses used to be an investment - if you were in a good area, had the right upgrades, etc., you'd get your money out of them and possibly make some profit. Now you cannot count on that at all. With the extremely high premiums on the water view lots, we decided to stay where we are. If for some reason, the market in The Villages went south, we could afford to walk away. I'd hate to plunk down $half a million and wonder if I'd be able to sell it for that in the future. No thanks.

That's interesting. I too hope it all works out.

You would think that somewhere it must be written that worry extends one's life!

I've got to change my Avatar.

Xavier

Is that in the Villages?

Taj

EVERYWHERE the house market is taking a bath. It is less affected here than in most places....at least now. HOWEVER who knows what will happen to our home values if some of our own residents keep trashing this area and the developers. I challenge you to find any place in this country that is more solid than this place as an investment.

I have said way too much. I get so angry when it is the same thing over and over and over.

It is true there is nothing new about the IRS.

I agree!

At this stage of the game, I think the best place for up to date info in this subject is the POA monthly bulletin. They keep tabs on the status and will have an article if the status changes. If you want an independent view of what’s hot in TV, this is a good start in addition to TOTV.

Note that the TV POA is an independent organization not tied to the developer.

Gracie, I do understand your feelings but the IRS issue is a legitimate issue for new buyers. I don't think the question was brought up to bash TV or the Morses but was an honest concern with hopes that an answer was available. Sadly, there isn't. It is a wait and see situation. There is no question that IF the final outcome is against the developers, it will affect our taxes and fees. However, as yet, we have no idea what will happen and we probably won't for many years -- there are still a few levels of appeals to go through before an ultimate settlement (if found against the developer) is reached.

I honestly don't think questioning the Morses' ethics affects TV property values. This is a beautiful community. It is well run; the homeowners care about the property; the homes are well-built; the Morses make sure everything looks good. Whether they do because they care about the appearance or because they do it to help them sell homes is irrelevant. It is what it is and, in this case, what it is is wonderful!

Redwitch. I am proud to know you and call you friend. Your posts are intelligent and reasonable and always make me rethink my views. I thank you for you courteous behavior.

Thanks Red for your intelligent post. Many of us have said that we love The Villages and enjoy the lifestyle here. But when people raise legitimate concerns about Morses' business practices or outstanding legal issues, I personally feel that we should give them honest answers. People should be able to buy in here with their eyes wide open. I personally feel it would be unethical to try and hide the facts, or pretend they don't exist, simply because I was worried about my home value.

IRS investigation
 

This sounds like it could be a pretty critical issue. Has anyone heard anymore or does anyone know what impact an adverse decision could have on property owners?

Here's the latest info I've seen on the IRS dealie-do:

http://www.districtgov.org/IRSupdate.aspx

Bill :)

IRS issue
 

This latest update makes it as clear as mud.

That is the intent. I am told not to look to either the District or the POA to provide any detailed explanation because they haven't and they won't.

As residents of TV we are paying handsomely for use of various amenities and so I certainly can't afford an additional financial burden. So let's hope the Developer and District prevail.

Do you think they District & POA really have anything new to share?

The irs/bond issue has nothing to do with amenities. The proceeds from the bond sales was used for infrastructure (water, sewer,irrigation mains,storm drains,curbs and paving). This would normally be rolled into the price of each home, but here, the expense is kept seperate in the form of a bond payment.

Boogie Shooter: The question is not "do you think they have anymoe to share?" No, the question to be asked is "Have they shared everything they know about this case to date?".............I think not

Mulligan: You are partly correct. However the Developer also had to calculate the flow of income from amenities which were then purchased by the District. I am not being negative or accusatory here only attempting to share information. Please don't shoot the messenger:throwtomatoes:

The IRS/bond issue has everything to do with the amenities and nothing to do with the infrastructure. The infrastructure bond is what the homeowners pay on an annual basis with their property tax bills. The irs issue has to do with the amenities that were sold to the central district and is being paid off from the amenity fees collected monthly.

Hey Rube........Your predictable pessimism once again is unencumbered by facts and corrupted by snide inferences. To insinuate nefarious motives in the failure to provide a "detailed" explanation, to whine and bemoan and blame others for not getting or giving "straight" answers and to grasp at "Leisureville" as a buyer beware guide to purchasing in the Villages is outrageously disingenuous even for an affable, cynical, resident skeptic. But, with all appropriate deference ....you are our skeptic.

The IRS question in issue, at best, is dynamic and fluid to the extent that the rules and laws that apply have not been completely defined by statute or relevant court ruling. There is little or no specific case law as development districts by whatever name are evolving, modern experiments in governance. Many communities in Florida and other states are waiting patiently, not fretting, for rules, precedents and guidelines to emerge from the current efforts of legislative and judicial processes. Ergo...There is no definitive explanation to satisfy your angst, there are no canned answers that contain the elusive smoking gun you seek and Leisureville is a book.....not empirical research.

To those of you on the fence, be of good cheer and make the move. If we had waited six years ago for the perfect scenario.....we would have missed out on six years of enjoying new friends, great new neighbors, a fabulous lifestyle and what have become the best years of our lives.

In the words of Theodore Roosevelt.... “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better."

Disclosure...I do not work for the Villages....in fact, I don't work at all. I never met anyone from the Morse family. :posting:

Have a great day in the Villages.

Correct....

...and since an inquiry into the handling of the valuation of assets transferred to the CDDs is really without precedent, it is difficult to speculate on who will prevail and how that outcome will affect the other side. That being said, while buyers should do their homework on this, you may miss out on the best experience of your life for fear of the sky falling...

As Cabo's above post and mine crossed in cyberspace - with him being the winner - I have to say that I completely agree with this comment of his:

"To those of you on the fence, be of good cheer and make the move. If we had waited six years ago for the perfect scenario.....we would have missed out on six years of enjoying new friends, great new neighbors, a fabulous lifestyle and what have become the best years of our lives. "

I agree with both of you and we have just voted (again) with our checkbook.

We have bought our second home here and we think it is a very good idea.

AND we are not gamblers at all.

Cabo35. Please don't hold back. You may not work for TV but in one manner or another you are involved in this dispute and hence have read the IRS filings.

Given that you "had on the ready" a quote I made long ago leads me to conclude I am one of your targets. Hmmmmmmm

You utilize Alinsky tactics against me in order to diminish my position and hence me. skeptic, et al

You suggest that I should take at face value what is printed in the Daily Sun, Village Voice and POA.

Your claim that the dispute between the IRS and TV is dynamic is somewhat true but the IRS has clear rules that apply for a tax free bond status. Indeed they are in dispute and obviously I want TV to win but you have no right to name calling because I express a concern, a concern not created by me. You therefore may want to direct your anger at those whocreated this dilemma.

Finally you make want to mark this my comments for future attacks against me.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...es/Shadow2.jpg
Anything new, I think not.

Irs
 

It is surprising how little is known about this. It sure would be nice to have a sense for what the downside risk to the home owner is, if any. Is it a dollar, a gazillion dollars or nothing, seems like on one knows. Considering the government is broke it is hard to imagine this will simply go away but who knows.

I agree with Gracie. "EVERYWHERE the house market is taking a bath. It is less affected here than in most places....at least now. HOWEVER who knows what will happen to our home values if some of our own residents keep trashing this area and the developers. I challenge you to find any place in this country that is more solid than this place as an investment."

I am wondering how a new bond could be issued to people who have already paid for their home with cash or with a mortgage. We were told what the bond is at that time. Can they really come back and say that we now have to pay another one. It sounds to me, and I don't really know much about bonds etc, that this is between them and the IRS. The developer may be able to pass this on to new buyers, but can they apply it to us retroactively?

No matter how you do the math and even taking the worst possible case where they decide to penalize every home owner here. Which I would believe is not possible. I also believe if the did that there would be a huge class action lawsuit. So very worst case taking the most severe IRS penalty it would be someplace between $1000 and $2000 on each Villages home.

Agree no one wants that and they would have to treat the payback over time, even the worst possible case is not worth not living here.

I guess I learned something today.