Tattoos and welfare
 

last news report showed a line of welfare recipients and a majority of them had tattoos.....I'm confused, aren't these tattoos expensive????

Most of them have Blackberry's too.

This issue is very hard for me to absorb without becoming judgmental.

Yes, I have heard that some tattoos cost $200 or more. I do not know, I have never priced them. My wrinkles are enough adornment for my gorgeous skin.

Some of the tattooed are smoking cigarettes that are six dollars a pack.

Six times thirty=$180.

Shall we assume that some gracious aunt gave them the money for a tattoo for their birthday? Shall we think that the smoking is an addiction over which they have no control?

Will someone point out to me that I don't understand the real issue?

I am not sure how to react without being ugly.

Be ugly, Gracie. You're so cute when you get mad. It makes for a good read.

Boy Howdy! (Sorry Gracie...haven't heard you say that in a long time!):loco:

I've seen several suggestions (not all tongue-in-cheek) to require welfare recipients to take a urine test before being allowed to pick up their welfare money. Sounds like a plan to me. How many honest, hardworking people have to pass that same test to pick up the paycheck they EARNED? Why not require those that didn't earn the money to at least take the same test? Wonder what that would do to the tattoo line? Wonder how many times we would see people with two cell phones, a pager, and an ipod using food stamps at Walmart.

I'm so anti-tattoo it's scary. I truly find them repugnant and am so very grateful my daughter is as anti-pain as I am anti-tattoo, otherwise there would be some serious battles between us and tats.

That being said, I refuse to judge someone in line for help. Yes, some are frauds and cheats and don't need help. Some did have money at one time or maybe on just occasion and got the tats, the decent car, the things that make it seem they do not need the money or help before they got so close to bottom. I know of one woman who would drive to Welfare to get her check in a one-year old Lexus. She bought it before her husband was injured and could not work. The best she could do for employment was Burger King. They had little saved, so slid downhill very, very quickly. Until the car was repossessed, it was the home for them and their two children.

And, yes, smoking is expensive. It may be their only luxury. It may be the only way to stand the humiliation of begging for help (ciggies do calm). It is also very, very addictive and they may not be able to quit. They may make a pack last a week. You never know.

Many who live below the poverty really have no idea how to budget. They do extravagant things when they have some money because they can't seem to understand that that money needs to last until the next funds come in. Plus, I don't care how poor you are, how beaten down you are, your psyche needs an occasional luxury. So, while I may not approve of tats, I can see the need to get one, especially if you have nothing else.

The point is, it is easy to judge, especially when you see these people looking like they are young, healthy, perfectly capable of working. They have things that just don't seem right for someone taking charity. BUT you don't know the facts. You don't know if there's mental illness that prevents someone from working. You don't know about the child with cerebral palsy and no medical insurance at home. You don't know that that couple was reasonably well off 3 years ago, but the job market destroyed their life. You just don't know.

As to the cheaters, I truly believe there is a special hell waiting for them. One which they deserve.

Now, talk to me about the doctors making millions by defrauding Medicare and Medicaid. This is a serious hot button to me.

Um...Red.

She could have sold that Lexus. or...if she had been FRUGAL like many people who have worked hard to get enough money to buy a Lexus, but don't, if she had saved her money for a rainy day...

What about all those doctors who work 16 hour days and make a lot of money without defrauding people?

This is gonna end up in political.

I think that our welfare system needs to be overhauled big time.

This is...bottom line, a matter of value judgments.

I love your sweet liberal soul, Red.

What gets me is when I am standing in line at the check-out, and I see someone paying with a WIC and it is all name brand stuff, pre-packaged meals, junk food, great cuts of meat. I mean ok, I understand helping out when down, no problem, BUT it should be limited to generic store brand and basic food staples.

Army Guy

Not that I have first hand knowledge . . .
 

however, tatts are free in prison. If they are all black and smudgy, yep, that's where they got it.

:boxing2:

It bothers me as well to be judgemental, but while I work full-time and try to cut every corner I can, no blackberry, don't smoke, hardly drink, no drugs, never on public assistance, take public transportation, no HDTV even, I find it very difficult to sympathize. Of course, I am not one to think or was raised thinking that everything is owed to me.

I am proud to say I thank God every day for my blessings.

Tats
 

Sure didn't mean for it to come across judgemental....Really was inquiring as to how much those tattoos cost! I had no idea that they cost $200, Yipsters!

You didn't mean it to be
 

judgmental? Sure you did. You and others here obviously think that anyone on assistance has to lead a very spartan existence and should have to account for everything they do.

Don't let your vision of someone in line for a handout
 

be clouded by your concept of one who needs or cannot afford what is being handed out.

There is always a percentage of those who have the ability and knowledge to work the entitlement programs.

We have all heard the story of the person who uses food stamps to buy groceries while also buying cigarettes and beer and getting into their Caddilacs and going to their $400,000 house!!!!!

Happens every day.

And tats are by no means a measure of ones ability to pay or social status. Quite the contrary (anymore!!).

btk

Accountability
 

I have no problem with the needy receiving assistance where truly needed. However, when government takes the role of that which should be done by private charities and people are being helped with the dollars we worked hard to aquire, and with there being a substantional number of individuals who have no scruples that would take advantage of the system, I certainly want there to be accountability. Accountability to clamp down on abuse, accountability to thwart fraud and any other negative issues as much as possible. Without accountability, in both private charity and government programs, we are losing funds that could go to help even more needy people. Without that accountability are also condoning the existance, propogation and future of this ever growing problem.

I agree there should be accountability, but I also believe that even those in need deserve some treats and, yes, even a luxury once in awhile. That person in the Caddy and the $400,000 home may be just as much in need as the person in the $350 apartment driving the clunker. (The one with the hosue and car probably wouldn't qualify unless on a disability since there is a limit as to how much of value can be owned.) The majority who qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, welfare truly need what they are getting. Many are only getting assistance for a short period and then either move up in the world or go further down (homeless qualify for little). They are pretty well-screened. That doesn't mean some don't fall through the cracks because they do. There are those who know exactly how to work the system to get everything possible and be entitled to none of it. Fortunately, they are in the minority.

Of course, being a liberal, I'd rather that a cheat get what isn't deserved rather than deprive one who truly needs. I don't like the idea of the cheat getting services, but I really would hate to think of a child going hungry when we could help that family because we want to make sure the cheat doesn't get anything.

here is another example
 

My daughter fosters babies and attends court for them. The father and mother of the baby she now has, has admitted in court that he uses his check from the governement to buy drugs!!! Now he has a low IQ and is naive..... so he is honest..... but he admitted that everyone he knew did the same. She has many other stories about the same...I think in this case the court will not let the baby go back to that home.

This is the typical banter of the "haves" vs. "the have nots." I worked for the governament in PA. A welfare family of four received $460/month in cash, minus any child support which had been turned over to the State. They also received about $200 worth of Food Stamps, and medicaid which did NOT cover everything. When the economy started to crash, more and more "haves" ran out of their UC and were forced to apply for these benefits. Imagine their shock when they realized how little they were entitled to. I heard more people tell the tales of the "welfare cadillac" and the "welfare queens" that they had believed all of those years. They were beyond shocked at what they were to receive. Now some of these people had a Lexus or Infiniti that they now drove to the supermarket to spend those Food Stamps and so the tales live on.
And, yes, we all knew the "druggies" that were there. Federal law forbids the receipt of welfare by convicted/fleeing felons. Background checks were done on every applicant BEFORE they received any money.
Let's stop reinforcing the stereotypes that ALL (or even MOST) welfare recipients are lazy, crazed druggie baby machines!

Amen to that, Mac9 - in fact, let's stop stereotyping, period. Take each person you meet and decide if you like them or not as individuals. I have met some of the best rich people, poor people, people on welfare, people who work three jobs, people with tats - and I have met the worst. There are a-holes and wonderful people of every race, creed and religion so just take them one at a time.

nitakk, can we be friends? I'm already friends with mac.

Thank you for saying so well what I feel.

Haves and Have nots.
 

There is no shame in having money that you worked for and saved and did without while thinking of a goal....which was not to be dependent on others, to take care of yourself now and later when you couldn't earn money and not thinking that the government, or your family or your church had to supply things for you.

There is no shame in cutting your own hair and sewing some things to save money and cooking from scratch...just as a habit, because it was cheaper.

There is no shame in choosing the Taurus instead of the Lexus because that extra money might help your own grandkids in college.

There is no shame in taking care of your family and other people who truly deserve a hand up, not a hand out.

There is no shame in starting out poor and carefully taking care of the money you earn so that you have enough excess that you are not a burden to society.

There is a damn shame in spending money on things you can't afford and don't need, especially if you don't have the money.

Help me down from this soap box.

Boy Howdy.

Gracie, for some, they could afford the Lexus when they bought/leased it but they couldn't afford being out of work for over a year. They couldn't afford major medical expenses. They couldn't afford the dot.com bust or the stock market crash.

I was a saver, even as a kid. Even my pennies squeaked before they were spent. Things I had no control over (illness, boarding school, a bout of unemployment) wiped me out financially. I've managed to survive without getting assistance but it hasn't been easy. I had one major advantage that a lot of others didn't -- I knew how to save my money and how to budget. It is amazing how many people truly don't know how to do that and I'm not just talking about my daughter's generation, I'm talking about baby boomers.

If you have no clue how to save, if you're used to being able to buy on impulse, then it is hard to recover when some real bad luck comes your way. So, I do understand my friend and her Lexus getting public assistance. I do understand that things happen. Some of us are better able to survive those things than others.

most of them also have vanity license plates and piercings.

I'm with you GG
 

But I also know that there are exceptions to every rule especially when a black cloud follows you around thru no fault of your own, just a bunch of unfortunate circumstances and poor health would be at the top of this list...

and they keep on making babies

I agree. I am not nearly as liberal as some on this forum - but I hope to be non-judgmental. I think judgment is best left to someone other than the very human humans that we are.

Tattoos are not necessarily bad
 

I hate to admit to getting old, but I live in The Villages and am on Medicare and SS. Many of us are. Tattoos had a certain stigma to them years ago. That is no longer the case. Try going to Daytona during spring break and look at the young people on the beach. You will find tattoos on many of them. You'll be able to see most of the tattoos, but not all, on display when these young college guys are in swimsuits and the gals in bikinis.

Keep in mind that these young people are in college and will wind up being solid citizens of these United States. These kids are our future doctors, lawyers, engineers, politicians, etc. You will have no trouble distinguishing between these tattoos and those worn by gang members.

Don't be surprised when one of your children or grandchildren show up with a tattoo. If they choose to show it to you admire the work and think about the pain endured to get one.