inexcusable slow play
 

tried to play Havana today. Without exageration it took us an hour and a half to play 4 holes. This is nonsense. Someone has to be able to move groups along without fear of losing their job. Why have ambassadors if they are not allowed to do their job? If ambassadors are not allowed to do their job then how about a timing system. If a group doesn't finish within 18 minutes of the expected time give them half their money back and tell them to try again tomorrow. Ther are many reasons for slow play all preventable. But there are some of you out there who do not belong on the big courses,you are not skillful enough. If you are constantly writing double digits for scores you are ruining it for a lot of people. Pick up after a double par please,I beg you.

Oh now you've done it.

Get ready for those people who say "Hey, we're all retired, what's the hurry?".

I don't agree with them and you can search this site for previous threads about this subject. Each score card has a time requirement listed. The ambassadors need to make people adhere to it or get off.

Anyone playing a championship course should have played long enough to understand the pace of play. I HATE slow play.

Ambassadors were all over us the other day for being 1 minute behind......give me a break. Obviously they are not all given the same job description.

Slow Play
 

Slow play on most courses outside TV could get you kicked off the course. Played Palmer's today it was steady play. I find biggest offenders on executive courses. Why????? I am afraid it is only going to get worse as the built out proceeds, there are many more renters and Lifestyle people crowding the courses. Suspect population with renters well remain 80,000 plus all year

I was told by an ex ambassador that he was fired after somebody complaining about him telling them to get a move on ............. thats possibly the reason ambassadors don't do a great deal about slow play!:shocked:

If ambassadors are not allowed to do their job why have them? I also notice the scorecards have hole times on them for people to try to follow so it should be fairly easy to i.d. the slow players,give them a polite warning to pick up the pace and if they continue their selfish ways ask them to leave and get a 9 hole refund. If this issue is not addressed it will only get worse as more people play. My group simply went in and got a full refund and will use it tomorrow at another course.As I said earlier slow play can be prevented with proper supervision and a supervisor with a backbone.

I don't play but can't help wonder what ever happened to signaling the next group to pass through? Is it against the rules here to do that? I only played many years ago, a few times and have done exactly that when we held up others. It was not only polite to do so, but it taught me just how bad a golfer I was hen wwatching how far others could drive the ball. ;)

inexcusable pace of play
 

If a group is falling behind the pace of play, letting a group play through will do nothing to speed up the offending group. The backup will continue if that group continues to take 20 minutes plus to play a hole. The ambassadors can only do so much (unfortunately). Playing at Lopez and Glenview many times the past few weeks (because the course conditions are excellent) the pace of play has been right on track. I can't imagine what the pace of play has been on the executive courses during the seasonal renter/owner months.

We all feel your pain....
 

In my experience Havana is part of the issue. Most of my experiences playing golf here on the 18 holers are within the allocated time or better. I have had two awful rounds this year for pace, both were at Havana. I started asking other clubs about pace of play, almost always Havana comes up first. Either their ambassadors are not doing their job (or do not know how to do their job) or management has handcuffed them. In my experience, this does not happen at Glenview as an example.

The last time I played Havana I played Hemingway to Kilimanjaro. The front 9 took 2 hours and 25+ minutes. I got to the back 9 and and the 11:52/12:00 groups were waiting as we were the last ones from the AM wave. I was standing on number one at Kilimanjaro and no one was on 4 or 5 and I could not see 6.... NO ONE! I saw an ambassador, I asked him what happens for slow play, he said he tells the group, if they will not move he asks management to help.

I mentioned how bad the front side was, he said I wonder why, this side is on time. It took all of my restraint not to "educate him", but I simply mentioned that there are two holes open ahead of us. Off he went, but this is WAY too late..... this had to be done when they were one hole behind on number 5 on the front

unbelievable...

This is a situation where ONE group affected the enjoyment of so many others. I really believe in this case the ambassadors on staff simply did not know how to manage the course.....

Slow play is usually a matter of not understanding the concept of playing 'ready golf' and not understanding golf cart etiquette not the skill of the person playing. I have a high handicap, but was taught early on the importance of several simple considerations that save time especially if there are people behind you:
Never spend a lot of time looking for a lost ball.
Spend the time getting to your ball thinking about how you are going to hit the next shot and what club you are going to use.
Take one practice swing.
If you and your partner are on opposite sides of the course, let your partner drop you off, take a couple of clubs with you if you are not sure what you will need and walk to your ball after you have hit - don't wait to be picked up.
Always park your cart on the side of the green closest to the next tee.
Set a limit to the number of strokes/hole and pick up after that. My current club has a suggested limit based upon handicap. The better the player the lower the limit.
I know there are other suggestions, but these are the ones that come to mind.

Did MY husband teach you to play golf?:a040::coolsmiley:

Those are the tips I was given and try to use.

Suggestion
 

How about instead of berating the ambassadors, your entire group(s) get with the head pro at the championship courses and voice your concerns? They are the ones in charge...not the ambassadors. (And, no, I am not an ambassador or married to one.) Any issues where we came from if the ambassadors had a problem, didn't do their job, or whatever were always addressed by the pro. He was even seen out on the course lots of times, especially on the really crowded days. Have you ever seen one of the pros out on the courses here?

Golfers don't have to be low handicappers to play at a decent pace, either. Some of the slowest players I have ever had the misfortune to play with were single digit handicappers. There are many ways to maintain a decent pace such as ready golf, scoring at the next hole, putting on head covers in transit, not doing lots of practice swings, taking forever lining up putts, finishing conversations later, pick up (as suggested), even do gimmee putts when not in a stroke play tournament. Taylor11947 nailed it.

I don't like slow play, but I don't think golf is a contest to see who can get around the course the fastest, either. I sure don't like being pushed by the group behind when we're waiting on every hole and there are some golfers who do exactly that.

Exactly.

I don't think anyone is berating the ambassadors. All we are asking is that they do their job. The ambassador today knew what the problem was but did nothing about it except tell another ambassador and then said he would see his supervisor if the problem continued. When he talked to us there were 4 foursomes on the same hole. This tells me there is a problem that must be addressed now. Ambassador,supervisor,head pro, I really don't care,just solve the problem.

Gosh ! I recently moved here and have never golfed. I had planned to do some lessons and give it a try, but after reading this thread I shall never ever get closer than the club house restaurant to a golf course - ever. This thread is the culmination of what had been a "looking forward to the villages and what it has to offer" mode for me........ I was waiting for the snowbirds to fly north to start some lessons, but I'll fore go that idea and start wondering why it was that I bought in the villages.

Do not get discouraged, take some lessons and go out on the 9 hole courses this summer. Playing late in the day and you will learn ready golf and be able to play. There are times I just pick up and go to next hole.

Were going to continue to have issues like this because the renters are on vacation and could care less. Sorry but that has been my experience. :0000000000luvmyhors

Wow, that seems to be a bit of an overreaction. I have golfed for 50 years and am still not very good, but I get to the ball quickly, hit it, and move along, and I never spend much time looking for a lost ball. You don't have to be good to play at a decent pace, and as someone else said, often the best players are among the slowest. Learn to play the game and have fun, don't take it too seriously and keep moving and you will be fine.

Don't Let the comments scare you away. I'd suggest taking lessons (which should include etiquette), go to the driving range, play the 9 hole courses and don't bother keeping score in the beginning - that will help you concentrate on technique. If possible, try to play with a round with the pro to get 'on the course' instruction. Good luck.

Right you are...and KB...there are rules in any games and just as many have said...you don't have to be GOOD to keep the pace of play. If there is an open hole ahead of you, your group is playing too slow. All of this will make more sense when you begin to play, and soon you too will be annoyed if there are four groups stacked up on a hole.

Golfing on the executive courses is a wonderful privilege that many of us have payed for all of our adult lives. The price is certainly right here.

Just remember, that golf is NOT a matter of life and death. It is MUCH more important than that.

(just kidding of course)
Well a little, anyway.

Its sad that you are making the decision on the comments of one course. Did you not read the posts regarding "right on time" at other courses? I think you have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I totally agree with your post. As a new golfer, I try to be very respectful of other golfers. The other new golfers I play with have stressed ready golf and not dilly-dallying around.

Kb8tpw ... I think this thread is about inconsiderate players, not new players.

Slow play
 

Recently played at Glenview. It took us 4:45 to play 18 holes. My past experience had been that ambassadors always quote the same reason for slow play : the course is packed. Poor excuse, as a packed course can play in reasonable time if the slow parties are monitored.<

The Glenview experience was different. The group in front of us were clearly the slow players. By the the 12th hole, they were a full par 5 hole behind. When we talked to the ambassador, he responded by saying that he had already warned them, but to please be patient, as we would be old ourselves someday. Other than the implied compliment, (not deserved), I felt that it was kind of lame as an excuse.

To top things off, after the 18th hole, one player took the time to empty his pockets, replace all head covers, put away his glove etc before moving away from the green.

These people should have been told to skip a hole, or tee off from the 150 yd marker on a par 5, making it a par 3. Additionnally, they could be told to follow a course on golf etiquette, with emphasis on ready golf, before being able to book again on a championship course.

I am ready to accomodate people who move more slowly because of age or disabilities, but those people should reciprocate by making some concessions, such as the ones mentionned above.

Dang, and here I am talking up Glenview. It always struck me that the ambassadors were on top of things there and would get Ken or one of the managers if they could not get a situation under control. 4:45 on a village golf course is pretty frustrating, my cooler is not large enough :). Here is a technique you can use in the future. With the group in front of you in ear shot, turn like you are yelling at the group behind you and say "It is not us, it is the group in front of us".

Like I said, most rounds this year have been under time, nothing like 4:45. We just played Lopez last Sunday in just under 4 hours without rushing, but Sunday AM is always a little less crowded.

There is something to be said about a packed course being slower. It is analogous to a highway being full, one mistake is hard to recover from. That said there is no reason a round should take more than the recommended time on the card, IMO that time is very fair.

I have played in foursomes where one person in our group is slowing things down, hitting two or three balls, walking around in a daze, not caring if they are bollixing everything up. One day, I routinely walked to my ball at about the 100 yard marker and my partner stood next to me and watched me hit. Then he started walking back toward the tee box. I asked where he was going and he said, "oh, my ball is back at about 175 yards. AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH! ( he was the one who drove me up to my ball.)

One uncaring, unthinking person can mess up the whole course. Believe me, there are more than a few of them around.


JLK

One thing to speed up play easily is to putt out on the green. In other words the person furthest from the hole putts first and continues putting until he or she holes out. Then the next furthest player does the same thing until all are holed out. This prevents people from putting, marking their ball, letting the next person putt etc. etc. The is a relatively painless way of speeding up play. I don't recall this being mentioned on this thread.

John

ready golf helps . go when ready even if your partner is 6" behind and not yet ready. I know this violates golf etiquette, but is necessary to maintain pace.

Many people seem to go through life in kind of a fog, not just on the golf course. They are oblivious to anyone else they may be inconveniencing - you see them at the grocery check-out line, at the bank, in traffic etc. etc.
I believe that most slow golfers (not all) are just unaware of the delays they are causing. I got a good friend of mine back into golf after thirty years of not playing, and whenever we play I remind him of golf courtesy and moving along. He had not played in so long that he had forgotten many of those things, if he had ever learned them at all. In other words, I think most people will do the right thing if reminded, so tell people you golf with, in a kind and positive way, that "WE seem to be holding up the group behind us so WE better pick up the pace and not do so much ------------. Perhaps a few signs between holes, and in the proshop reminding people of the importance of good pace and tips on how to keep things moving would be of help. At least then the ambassadors would be able to back up their warnings by pointing out the obvious reminders the golfers should have seen.

Dang! The Villages has some darn good quality problems. I just had to qualify for a new Women's golf club here in California. I'm a single digit handicap, I still had to show that I could play golf, understand the rules and etiquette. Not only did I need to shoot under 108, I scored an 82. I must play golf with board members for five additional rounds to make sure I'm in good standing. Slow play is not tolerated at all and I walk the courses here.

We are taught, get to your ball, be ready to hit, putt out and go to the next tee box. Plus we play in groups of five. A good round is five hours. I'm looking forward to TV.

Last week we had a rainy day, imagine in southern California. Of course I'm playing golf, I get hooked up with an adorable 36 year old male (Davis). I'm in a cart, this is my 2nd round of golf for the day. I asked the kid if he wanted to play Ninja golf? He looked at me and said, Yeah. We played 18 holes in two hours. We giggled the entire round and played really well. I won $.50 on the skins game. Even with Ninja golf there needs to be a bet.

So what's my point? I just think many golfers are not educated about ready golf and hopefully those of us who are, can pass on our knowledge on to them without an attitude.

I have found that most backups occur at the par 3's. I don't golf that often, so my perception may be incorrect. I have found that waving the next group up to hit on the par 3's before your group putts out increases the speed of play and helps elimintate those par 3 backups. I don't golf very well but absolutely love the game. So when I am joining a group of strangers to complete a foursome, I tell them that I am not very good, but I play fast and respect golf course etiquette. I find that even the low handicap players respect this and enjoy playing with me. My pet peeve.......people who "ball hawk". You know the ones, they hit their ball and then walk along all the deep rough and water hazards looking for lost balls from other golfers. They count the day a success not if they golf well, but if they end the day with more golf balls than they began it with.

Speed Golf
 

I could not find any decent videos on the subject, but if you have never heard of speed golf it is really amazing to watch players that are good at it. The really good players shoot in the 70s and play in 45 minutes. It has nothing to do with helping the situation here, but fun IMO...

I am not sure I could make it three holes <<where is fat icon>>

http://www.speedgolfinternational.com/press3.htm

Not in total agreement with this. In my experience sometimes it is best to mark and let someone else go IF they have already spent time reading their putt.

I agree with you if you only leave a short putt but if you have to read then not sure it's the most expedient.

EVERY golf course that is any good has marshalls that enforce pace of play.
Every golfer on the course has a responsibility to monitor the pace of their group and do whatever it takes to keep up with the group ahead of them. If that means 'picking up' after a quadruple bogey, playing 'ready golf' all the time for slow players. I have seen, too often, groups that make it a social outing---they think it is "their" course for the day and spend a lot of time in casual conversation, rather than each separating, moving to their ball and get set to hit (determine yardage,etc). Too many times, I see 1 or 2 players in a 4-some, who belong at tee boxes up closer. PLAY THE COURSE at your level of competence. The rest of the people in your group will appreciate it, along with ALL the other golfers behind you. Golf is not much fun when you stand idle for inordinate amounts of time between shots/holes. Everyone paid good money to play the course, but if you or a couple others in your group are the cause, swallow your pride and do what is necessary. You can make it pleasant golfing for your group, and all the others behind you. So, you can be the cause, or you can be the solution---make it the latter.

It's great to see all these fast play suggestions and I'm sure most of us play at a good pace but if ambassadors and management do not do their part we are all at the mercy of those selfish,me,me.me,golfers that ruin a wonderful game and a wonderful day.

...what waynet said!
Most, if not all, the ambassadors I've seen are not interested in any way shape or form of criticizing or "pressing" slow groups to catch up, or step aside. I often wonder if the ambassadors themselves even play or understand the game. IMHO they (ambassadors) are a useless lot over-all. Just my opinion....based solely on my observations.

cannot agree more with momar and fourpar.....well stated by both

I was told they also squeeze in 9 holers in between the morning and afternoon wave, which of course would slow down the afternoon wave. Does anyone know if this is true? I don't think the ambassadors have a lot of incentive to promote faster play. They're probably getting paid minimum wage, so (in their minds) why rock the boat and deal with the bad responses they'll get when they try to push the slower players along. Maybe if The Villages had some sort of incentive for players - like if your foursome gets done in the allowable time listed on the card, your name gets put in a hat to win a prize, and have monthly prize drawing or something.

Taj44..........9 hole play is at the end of the pm wave from 1:30 - 2:00. The last pm t-times (after 1:30) are eligible to be changed from 18 to 9 at check in. So if you have the first pm t-time (11:56) and play under 2 hours, you will wait at the turn for the last pm t-time which is 1:56. Hope this helps......