N.H. Bill to Make T.S.A. Pat-Downs and Naked Scans a Felony!!
 

New Hampshire State Representative George Lambert has co-sponsered a bill to make it a felony to view or touch someone's private parts without probable cause. The bill would classify the enhanced pat-down and the viewing of passengers with an x-ray as a sexual assault.

It a first step in the direction to stop this de-humanizing practice which amounts to the equivalent of a state sponsored sexual assault.

Kudos to these representatives for the state of New Hampshire.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...e-498b569ab8ac

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_830342.html

hogwash......airline safety must evolve with the times to keep us safe. if you have trouble with it then you should seek other means of tranportation!

Didn't you like the interaction you got the last time you brought this topic up? A little hung up on this I'd say.

My prescription: It's gorgeous outside, turn off your computer and get some fresh air. Enjoy the day that the good lord has given you.

X-hilarated

I don't have to submit to de-humanizing actions in silence. If you're willing to give up your personal freedoms for a false sense of security, by all means spread 'em and put your hands up. I have no problem with you doing that. It's your body and if you have no problem with a stranger feeling and groping your most intimate parts, then by all means do so.

Other's, who cherish personal freedoms and abhor this grab at power over other person's bodies, that has as much to do with enlarging the number of public union employees, have a right to speak out and to demand that the government give good reason and probable cause to commit what in any other venue would be sexual assault.

It's a wretched system and there are better systems, such as in Israel, that do not treat everyone as guilty until proven innocent.

People have a right to speak out and to protest this issue. It's also our constitutional right to try and change the law to prevent this.

I actually don't fly anymore as I have medical implants and I am going to have to submit to personal indignities every time I fly. I am getting a little tired of the 18 hour drive to N.J. to see my family which I do just to avoid the humiliation at the hands of government agents.

I talking about an issue. Why are you so condescending? Why do you need to confront me personally?

If the issue doesn't concern you, fine, don't respond to it.

The lawmakers in New Hampshire are making this news, not me. You need to stop obsessing on what I post. It's getting a bit dreary.

Scans? Pat downs?
 

I flew out of Orlando International in December - no scans or pat downs!

I flew out of Portland, Maine in December - no scans or pat downs!

I flew out of Orlando International in January - no scans or pat downs!

I flew out of San Jose, Costa Rica in January - no scans or pat downs!

There was just the usual walking through the airport metal detector and having the carry-on bags x-rayed. Yes, we did have to remove shoes. No big deal.

I have talked with lots of Villagers who have travelled out of Orlando, New York, Washington and none had to have the scans or pat downs! This is entirely overblown as to how many travellers have this done.

Yet, I went to Disney a few days ago, and we had to have backpacks handsearched by Disney rent-a-cops.

How many Villagers actually have had full body pat downs at airports and how many have had the full body "naked" scanner at airports?

:agree:
In the State of New York and most if not all other states, you are assumed under law to be giving permission, when you get behind the wheel of an automobile to be tested for blood content when suspected of driving under the influence. If you refuse you will immediately have your drivers license suspended then later revoked for a minimum of six months. You rarely hear any outrage about this because it is an important safety issue.

Why then should there be any difference in standards from the highway to the airport when you purchase an airline ticket and enter into the security check point? They're both equally significant issues of safety! The only real difference is that with the check point at the airport, you do at least have the right to refuse, turn around and and walk away! You don't have that choice with a drivers sobriety test.

Now one may say "But, I have to fly!" Fooey that! Flying is a priviledge and not a right, just as it is with driving an automobile. No one HAS to fly; it's a choice. If it's because you're employer makes you do it, then it's an issue with your employer and not the thousands that depend on those safety measures every day. I haven't flown since the mid '70 and did love doing it, but for reasons other than safety I had to stop and I've yet to have missed it or have a breakdown or implode from lack of flying!

Our rights under the constitution are very important and it's equally important that they are not undermined by either circumstances or shameless acts of our government's leadership, but IMHO, our rights not to be incenerated or have our body parts scattered all over the ocean or countryside trumps the momentary discomfort of receiving a quick pat-down or incidental "junk" encounters at the airport, nor will it lead to undermining the foundations of our constitution.

Israeli costs of airline secutity =approx $80.00 per passenger flown, USA =less than $6.00. Israeli passenger traffic approx 11,000,000 annually. San Francisco 10,000,000 annually. Added costs for Israeli model at San Francisco= 3/4 Billion$ times ???
Go online and check the facts, then we can have a rational discussion. Has the TSA made some mistakes, of course. Can procedures be improved, always.

While I agree that the current system is bad I would point out that most air travel is interstate/international and as such federal law will trump state law, unless you wll be flying within NH this law will pretty much be moot.

Sexual offender
 

The link on Richie's post says that the bill introduced would have a government security agent (not just TSA) classified as a sexual offender if he/she touches or views genitalia or breasts. How about a jailer doing a strip search of a prisoner? How about an off-duty police officer (male or female) visiting a strip club, bachelor or bachelorette party? Too many variables here.

This bill will never make it out of committee. It is just some puffering by a state legislator who wants to be on a newspaper.

As I stated earlier, I do not know anyone personally who has gone through the enhanced pat down or "naked" scans. How many people do you know who have done this, Richie? No, I am not attacking you for this post. Inquiring minds just want to know.

My wife gets the treatment on every flight and we fly often. She is 72 and has had a knee replacement. Sets off the alarm . She has always been treated with reasonable respect. I have never been patted down.

Would the threat of water boarding on the offenders work??

Israel Airport Passenger Screening
 

"It's a wretched system and there are better systems, such as in Israel, that do not treat everyone as guilty until proven innocent."

Challenger has already mentioned the prohibitive costs of employing the system utilized in Israel considering the volume of passengers in the USA.

In addition in my view, partially obtained from managing a Federal Air Marshal Office for 5 years, the Israeli system basically views all passengers as possible threats and eliminates them via their extensive use of behavioral assesment tools and lengthy interviews. Are you aware that El Al Airlines require a check in of 4 hours ahead of their departures to be able to complete their screening processes? I don't believe the American flying public would appreciate a check in time of 4 hours prior to flight.

At the end of the day, flying is not a constitutional right but a privilege much the same as driving. I will jump through whatever hoops are necessary to keep me and my fellow passengers safe in flight.

:agree:

The key phrase you've ignored in the bill is "probable cause", and this makes your whole post moot.

First, I refuse to consider the cost of personal liberty.

As to your willingness to hoop jump, that's fine with me; jump through all the hoops laid before you. The facts available are that the terrorists have already devised methods to beat the TSA's scans and invasive gropings with surgically implanted and body cavity hidden weapons.

The next hoop may be body cavity searches in order to fly or you cannot be assured of a weapons free flight. I assume that hoop you will also jump through. Of course that will not find surgically implanted weapons. So believe you're safe when you give up your own rights to privacy, if you will, but it's a fallacy. The TSA claims it will never do cavity searches, so their assurances of weapons free flights are nonsense.

I'm just pointing out what legislators representing the state of New Hampshire are doing in the interest of rights to privacy in relation to control of your own body. I'm hoping the actions of these public servants will bring this issue to greater national attention and shine more light on the private national police force which is the TSA.

Surgically Implanted Weapons
 

[QUOTE=RichieLion;335231]First, I refuse to consider the cost of personal liberty.

" The facts available are that the terrorists have already devised methods to beat the TSA's scans and invasive gropings with surgically implanted and body cavity hidden weapons. "

Just out of curiosity, How does one access a surgically implanted Weapon in Flight?

At this point, I'm done, let's agree to disagree and as you mentioned you are not flying anymore so enjoy The Villages.

[quote=jackz;335236]How can you be done when you asked a question?

Surgery has been devised which will implant explosive material in a women's breast implant. The chemical explosive would be detonated with a chemical reaction by a hypodermic needle. The hypodermic needle will be brought on board by the woman or an accomplice who would be, or pretending to be, diabetic. The woman would inject the chemical detonator into her breast and the deed is done.

The other method is explosive materiel hidden in a body cavity which is detonated with an electric device disguised as a common cell phone or iPod.

ouch!

The Villages, Florida
 

Why is this posted under discussion of The Villages, Florida??

You're right!! I really meant for it to be in non-Villages Discussion. I guess we need Tony to fix my mistake. Sorry Tony!!

What is the probable cause mentioned having to do with an off-duty government security agent (police officer) going to a topless bar with friends for a bachelor or bachelorette party? Would they be charged as a sexual offender?

As I stated before, Richie, this bill will never make it out of committee. It is just puffery to get attention.

You did not answer if you personally know people who have been subjected to this treatment.

It was a great day for golf, wasn't it?

Come on, really? A bachelor party, a topless bar? A place, despicable or not, where a woman is paid for her services? Come on, really?

Probable cause to permit a gov't official to search someone is something I'm sure you understand, so I won't insult you by defining it.

You may be right about the outcome of this bill, but I'm just glad for the attempt. If only the liberal media would report on it, so the uniformed populace who only listen to the liberal media would be informed on this issue. Maybe it'll become a story that cannot be ignored; we'll see.

Richie, if you're getting tired of the 18 hour drive to N.J., why do you continue doing it when it's not necessary? You don't need to do the drive or fly as you have a third choice... Amtrak's Auto Train!

If you had reservations and left TV this morning you would only have to take a relatively short drive to Sanford FL where they would board your vehicle onto one of their car carriers and you board either into a sleeping room or electively a coach seat. This afternoon you would have been on your way north and arrive tomorrow morning in Lorton VA, just south of the Washington Beltway.

From Lorton you would then drive to the destination of your relatives in NJ and be enjoying their company later that evening. You would have cut off about 800+ miles of driving and not have undergone the 18 hour drive.

If you decide to try going that route sometime in the future you should note that they have what's called a bucket system of determining rates. This means that the earler you get your reservations in, the better the rates can be. You can make reservations up to 11 months in advance.

We'll actually be doing the Auto Train thing for the fourth time in less than 3 weeks, making our way back to our primary home in Upstate NY.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...AmtrakLogo.png http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...=1241245666320

I guess they will close the airport and sell it to developers hahaha dumbest story I have read here ever:spoken::22yikes:

I'm just saying that if you keep bringing up the same topic in the general discussion pages of TOTV and then the vast majority knock the snot out of your viewpoints and concerns, why would you continue to keep doing the same thing? Do you really, really think that you are going to change anything? Run for office and make a change happen from within the system instead of just talking about it and letting people poke holes in your argument. Take a stand, don't just talk a stand.

X-asperated

You got to stop obsessing about me. It's getting creepy.

Thanks Skyguy. I'll check it again the next time I need to go up north. It was a bit expensive the last time I checked, but with the price of fuel, I'll reevaluate it.

OK - aside from JoJo - I am most likely the "travelingist" poster on TOTV. I fly regularly from Orlando to Atlanta, DC, Charlotte, Philly, Toronto, Lauderdale and infrequently to a lot more.

I have been patted down and scanned. The only time the pat down was ever invasive was before TSA - when the rentacops were doing it. That pat down was by a man, who also seemed to take inordinate pleasure in pawing through my underwear in my luggage.

The scanner looks a bit like the "Beam me up Scotty" device from Star Trek. And no, there are no naughty photos of my private parts on display. The TSA folks (and their Canadian counterparts) are completely professional.

My husband has been patted down every time he flies because of his artificial hip. He much prefers the scanner. It is much quicker.

What I really don't understand here, is why this has suddenly become an issue. Why now are they such an invasion of privacy when a few years back they were considered paramount to our safety?

:icon_bored:

Assuredly Kate knows of which she speaks.

So do all the rest who have traveled by air recently.

There really isn't a problem that I can perceive.

I would do anything to make air travel safer. I have no problem with whatever it takes to keep people from getting on airplanes carrying dangerous items.

Sometimes people who are not related to you have to touch your body; Doctors, nurses, technicians,hair dressers, people who fit prostheses, people in airports. You would know if someone is feeling you up. Not everyone is sex crazed. Although my overweight, older, wrinkled body is probably a huge temptation.

OK; I guess all the pro TSA'ers are completely ignoring the evidence that it's all a sham anyway and it's not making you safer, as you can find out if you would do any investigating whatsoever.

I would prefer real safety protocols instead of all the feel good theatre that the pro TSA'ers have swallowed whole.

In the meantime we'll see what, if anything, comes out of the Bill before the New Hampshire Assembly that, you may be surprised, was not written by me, but by elected lawmakers by the voters of New Hampshire.

Really, all I did was report the story.

Thank you for posting this info...
 

:agree: There needs to be some REAL safety protocals implemented. The removal and scanning of shoes was a "knee-jerk" answer to the shoe bomber. Do I feel safer having to have my crocs sent through a scanner while I limp through the line with no support to my arches? NO!

My biggest concern with these invasive scans/pat downs is that there are plans to extend these measures, in the near future, to rail service. At that point, are all the folks that say "oh, but flying is a choice...blah, blah, blah..." going to say once again that using the rail system is a choice? Where does the invasion into our rights to be "innocent until proven guilty" end?

Probably when there are no more terrorists trying to blow up trains and planes.

From what I have read on these posts, is that no one personally has had "invasive" pat downs with groping of private areas - as described on Fox News (I had to put that in for Richie). A couple have had the full body scans and have no problem with it. This seems to be a total non-issue here.

Once again, just a politician puffering to make a point and contributing to the greenhouse gas problem when they open their mouth.

Is rail system a choice? Now let me think about this a minute.....http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard...C-thinking.gif....YES, YES, MOST DEFINITELY YES!

Flying is a choice, rail is a choice, even driving is a choice. All these modes of travel are definitely a choice!!! I don't know about you, but I've yet to see anyone being forced at gun point or by any other means to use those first two modes of transportation! The only real non-choice that is apparant here is our RIGHT to remain DEAD once killed by a terrorist getting by inadequate security, blah, blah, blah...!

Heaven knows that there's plenty of room for security proceedures to be improved in this country, but until our current government leaders wakes up and improves those proceedures, I'll opt to put my junk out there at non-violent risk instead of my life at REAL risk! And if those leaders don't wake up... then let's replace them with leaders who will!

:bowdown::agree::a040:

X-cellent!

I'll only leave you with my TOTV signature which one of the most insightful of our founding fathers articulated in his usual brilliant way. He had a true American spirit.

Mr Franklins words are still wise. Context is important. Living in the Villages we have agreed to give up discharging firearms in our yard, speeding on public roads, driving an auto without insurance and much much more. We need to vigorously test every relinqueshment of rights against it effectiveness in protecting our physical existence. Obviously we will differ in opinion on many issues. Democracy is messy but should produce the greatest good for the largest number of persons without undue disadvantage to the minority. As for the TSA issues, we the public do not know many of the circumstances that have caused implication of what seem to be silly procedures. So, the debate goes on..:rant-rave:

Richie - I love your quote.... But many also used this in reference to the Patriot Act.

I agree we need to stay ahead of the bad guys... and that small amounts of liquid or shoes may be knee jerk reactions.... But wouldn't we all fee stupid if another shoe bomber was allowed to board wearing shoes with explosives because we didn't check? Well, not all of us, of course.... as some would feel nothing at all - they would be those that died. Flying as often as I do, I'm thankful that we are using technology to keep the air safe.

And just, in terms of full disclosure, no products or services that I sell are used in any airport scanning devices.