Here's a question to discuss about carts
 

There has been tons of discussion here about golf carts and their place in Villages traffic patterns. Traffic tickets given to carts, both licensed and unlicensed has been widely discussed. Speeding carts and cars are hot topics. Police enforcement of speed limits gets lots of play.

In light of the recent tragic golf cart accident, here's a talking point.

One report has it that the golf cart was proceeding along a main street. This report has it that the truck either failed to stop at a stop sign or stopped then proceeded through the stop sign into the cart.

If that account is accurate, here's an important question. If the golf cart is an unregistered vehicle, does it have the right of way. Would it be nothing more than a pedestrian. A pedestrian has the right of way only in clearly marked crosswalks. They can't barge out into traffic and expect to be held harmless.

If a golf cart is unregistered does it enjoy the same privileges and rights of way as a registered vehicle? Or does it have to give way to registered vehicles?

JLK

In the "All About Golf Carts and Things" section, you have a Sticky which starts with detailed information provided by an attorney: http://www.talkofthevillages.com/for...ad.php?t=24097

While I look forward to responses to your Talking Point, they will most likely be simply opinions from untrained individuals like you and me. I would greatly appreciate a response from an attorney who has experience in the areas covered by your Talking Point. Could that be arranged?

golf cart comment
 

Last Saturday night I left Sweetbay in my car,went to the stop sign to enter the roundabout and go north on Morse.In front of me was a twentiesh girl driving a golf cart.My first thought was ,she must have a street legal cart to be going this way.However,the cart had no license plate.She proceeded into the roundabout and traveled north on Morse.She was almost rearended by a pickup truck.I found myself beside her at the traffic signal at Morse and Rt 466.She hollered over at me "Am I near Odell?" I told her no and that she wasn't allowed to have her cart driving on Morse.She didn't know if her cart was street legal and obviously had no knowledge of the Villages or driving golf carts.I had her follow me through the gate and pulled over and gave her golf cart path directions.She was an accident waiting to happen.By the way ,at the gate i tried to explain the situation to the attendant.This guy just waved me on and the girl too.This guy was as clueless as she was.

In Florida, the operation of a golf cart upon public roads is determined by the Department of Transportation or a local government. If the local government's ordinances are more restrictive than than those enacted by the state, the more restrictive ordinances are legal.

All provisions in state law that allow this stipulates that appropriate signage must be posted. Examples include signage allowing the carts on certain roadways or to cross certain roadways and other traffic signs.

So, if carts are being operated in appropriate areas, the signage would determine who has the right-of-way and any other appropriate laws. That is how I read the law.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...ing=golf+carts

To further complicate the issue, the speed of the cart. As we all know, golf carts are limited to below 20 mph. If a cart has been altered to go, say 28 or 30, this could cause a vehicle on a side street to misjudge when the cart will arrive at the intersection.

Why is there not more focus on operation of golf carts during the newcomer orientations since this is a golf cart oriented community?

Statute states the stop sign requires a driver to yield the right of way to any vehicle, not just "registered" vehicles. Certainly someone on a bike would also have the right of way over a vehicle at a SS.


http://law.onecle.com/florida/motor-...s/316.123.html

I have this same discussion with some of my friends.

I feel that golf carts have the same right of way as a registered vehicle. When I am in the cart lane and want to turn left, I verify that there is no vehicle behind me and put on my signal and merge into the car lane and turn left.

Several of my friends are adamant that cars have the right of way and will ride the cart lane up to the turn and stop and let all cars pass before they turn left across the car lane.

However, when I am in a car and driving down the street and there is a cart in the cart lane, I tend to hold back as I have had many (not several but many) occasions where the cart in the cart lane will signal and turn left in front of me as if he/she had the right of way.

I do believe that all cart drivers should exercise extra caution when driving on the regular roads. Never assume that the people in the cars can see you.

Always use extra caution when driving a golf cart.

I was once told by a collier county deputy that when you are on wheels (bicycle or golf cart included) all the rules of the road apply. You are no longer a pedesrtian. seems pretty simple.

Here is Florida's definition of a golf cart.

"Golf cart" means a motor vehicle that is designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and that is not capable of exceeding speeds of 20 miles per hour.


Florida law says local governments can allow operation on streets and this condition applies:


Upon a determination that golf carts may be safely operated on a designated road or street, the responsible governmental entity shall post appropriate signs to indicate that such operation is allowed.

I agree that new residents need a class in golf cart safety. We will be permanent residents in several months and have no experience driving a cart. However, we are willing to learn and become responsible drivers. We just need to know where/how to drive. Perhaps there is a class for newbies and I have not searched for it. :read:

Really does not matter if the cart has the right of way or the car/truck has the right of way. The smaller vehicle in any case is going to get crushed. Even if you, a cart driver has the right away, it is always best to look out for the bigger vehicle, right or wrong, the cart/motorcycle/smaller vehicle is the one that will be hurt.

Alwasy drive defensively, no matter what you are driving or who has the right away. Its better to give a little than to never arrive home.

I remember a discussion about the gates and carts needing to cross in front of traffic. It was said by many that cars always had the right of way and that those that stopped to allow a golf cart to cross were causing accidents. So if cars really do have the right of way there and golf carts have to stop .....

Never mind, there is a posted stop sign for golf carts there.

In this case I would believe the truck had a stop sign and was supposed to yield to on coming traffic. The cart was in the cart lane and did not have a stop sign. Even if the cart was traveling to fast, he could be charged with speeding, but the truck did not yield to on coming traffic. Car traffic speed there is 35 mph. If I was in a Smart car going 35, would he still not have to yield? And if he hit me because he pulled into on coming traffic, he is at fault.

I believe no matter how this is slanted, the truck driver is at fault.

Villages golf cart safety meeting 3rd Wednesday of month, Savannah Center.

Yesterday I was on Wedgewood coming from Walmart. Golf cart in front of me never stopped at stop signs and never slowed down. At Fresh Market, automobile actually hit brakes to miss him when he came through stop sign. He just looked forward and kept going.

Well said, zee.

I agree. Arguing points of law solves no problems. Knowing the law helps but there is no substitute for common sense. Big fish eat little fish and a golf cart is a pretty small fish.

As a frequent traveler to and from Walmart, I can assure you what you witnessed is not uncommon. In fact, when I stop at the stop signs on that route I feel there is a good possibility of being rear ended. Cars turning into those side streets can get to the intersection in a hurry.

I believe the problem with golf cart and auto traffic ( maybe I should say golf cart vs auto) is getting more serious. I do not think the police, the Developer, or any of the authorities are willing to take any action. I don't think the HOA or the POA are willing to get involved. And the Daily Sun is not about to make an issue of it. I also believe what we see is the tip if the iceberg and it is only going to get worse.

The ones who will get involved are the insurance companies. When word gets out they may deny claims we may see some changes. When our rates go up due to their increased risks we may wake up.

Another player is The State of Florida. They approved The Villages as a golf cart community. They may step up and take some positive action.

Wouldn't it be nice if all involved got together, admitted there is a problem and then took positive action to correct it?

Last but not least, I think sweeping this problem under the rug can backfire. Someone is going to see a newsworthy story here. It wouldn't take a lot of effort to do some research and come up with a headline "Florida's Friendliest Hometown Also Florida's Least Safe".

Perfect!

It seems that common sense is not so common now-a-days.

When I was a kid I stayed out or the way of the bigger kids. I do the same thing now.

Everyone would agree that common sense should win. This accident was not about that as I understand it. The cart driver was going along the street in the golf cart lane. A landscape truck pulled to a stop sign and stopped.

Would you continue on and pass in front of the truck or stop in the cart lane and let the truck proceed? I would hope everyone would continue on so as not to stop all cart traffic on a main street. That would be really dangerous for many more people.

When the cart was passing in front of the truck, the truck took off and hit the card directly on it's side knocking it over onto the driver and he died.

So what common sense did the golf cart driver not exercise? How could he have prevented this? I was not there or did I see this accident. Only what I have read it appears this was how it happened. If it was something different then perhaps he could have avoided it by better defensive driving. If it did happen as I suspect, I think he had no chance to avoid being hit. Maybe the truck only did a partial stop, maybe he ran the stop sign, lots of what if's I am sure.

Is it reasonable to assume that a vehicle approaching a main street from a side street that has a stop sign, that they will stop? I would suggest that it is.

I agree that there should be a MANDATORY golf cart operation class before anyone should be allowed to drive one. Also, NO ONE should be allowed to operate a golf cart without a valid driver's license. Half the golf cart routes are on public streets and no one should be operating a motorized vehicle on a public street without a valid license. In addition, I think all vehicless should be required to run with the lights on at all times. I don't know how this could be implemented, but these are just my opinions.

I like the idea of running with lights on. Motorcycles have to have the lights on.

Running with lights on will significantly cut the range of electric carts. No idea by how much, but as the Villages increases in size and electric carts being less then perfect, this change might just eliminate them as a viable option.

The rules of the Road apply to autos, golfcarts and bicycles. Accidents occur because someone did not follow the rules. They did not follow the rules either intentionally, because they were confused, unaware, distracted or simply not paying attention.

The best a golf cart operator can do is to follow the rules, use hand signal and when cart clsoures are down be sure you have adequate and readily seen front and rear mechanical signals. i have seen countless operators who allow golf towels to block their rear taillights

Frankly speaking some golf cart operators are so overly cautious that they create doubt for both themselves and other drivers. People who travel interstates realize this when they encounter reluctant drivers who are afraid to enter or exit from a ramp.

I don't want a street legal vehicle because of safety issues as well has higher insurance rates.

Finally we have some folks here who simply should not be driving be it a car or a cart.

Stay safe and alert out there

The reality is that no segment of the driving population here at The Villages is not without fault. You have golf cart drivers that seem to think they have an invisible force field around their cart that protects them from harm. Auto drivers yakking on their cell phones as they drive thru the roundabouts. Delivery drivers and contractors all in a hurry to get somewhere. If the police decide to come out in mass to enforce traffic laws then they are accused of harassing the residents when they coud be catching real bad guys. There is also no way to mandate that drivers have to take a cart safety course. As far as The Villages is concerned it is not their responsibility to educate grownups on how to drive. The situation here involving vehicle vs cart accidents is NOT going to change and I submit as the population grows it will only get much worse. It is unfortunate but there is no way you can cure stupid or irresponsible driving behavior.

I really wonder what percentage of the golf cart drivers in The Villages have an insurance policy on their golf cart.

L2,

I totally agree.

And for those who want a mandatory class - how would you propose funding, administering and enforcing it?

Unfortunately "common sense" doesn't work. If it did, there would be no laws on the books. Every law throughout history is because people don't use "common sense" in the day to day administration of their lives.

We can't rely on common sense to solve these tragic situations.

I like it , great ideas except the part about running lights, takes to much juice for elec. carts....

fumar

We can't use it to solve crimes either.
:posting:

I turned onto the golf cart trail on Morse Blvd today near Havana.As I rounded the bend a cart was in front of me stopped.I could only see a male sitting on the passenger side.As I was about to pass,this golf cart started moving and I realized someone was driving it.Someone VERY short.Well the driver was a young girl about ten.She wandered back and forth as she proceeded north on Morse.I was tempted to pass but decided if she was weaving this much now,what would she do if I was suddenly beside her.The father or grandfather just sat there passively allowing her to continue.She finally turned off Morse but now was driving on a street not a golf path.How stupid could this guy be to permit this CHILD to drive? This is the second idiot i've encountered in the last four days.See my earlier post on this same thread.Heaven help us all.

That's why my post says "Common sense is not so commom now-a-days"

I saw something I couldn't believe!!!
 

A man driving a golf cart with two little kids (10-12) in the passenger seat and he was holding a toddler (9-12 months) in his left arm while driving with his right. The poor child was literally hanging out over the cart path. What the heck is wrong with some people? I hope the idiot reads this and knows it's him I'm talking about.:mad:

See what I mean about laws being made because of a lack of use of common sense.

Imagine what automobile speed would be like in The Villages if the police didn't enforce the limits.

If I may add to the question
 

Is there a problem with carts being driven by those who shouldn't be driving any motor vehicle? either too young, too old, DUI's, poor eyesight, slow reflexes etc.

Just trying to learn the good, the bad and the ugly

I've seen many scary bizarre things happen with golf carts. People driving through gates instead of staying on cart paths, blowing thorugh stop signs, pulling out from the cart path to make a left turn without looking. I don't know if the problem is ignorance or incompetence but it's probably a combination. You just have to expect somebody to do something stupid.
I know some believe it's fine to drive a cart with diminished abilities but I don't share that opinion. If it's unsafe to drive an automobile due to physical limitations or alcohol consumption, I don't see how it possibly be any safer to drive a golf cart.

We ride around in our golf cart with the same mindset we have when we're riding a motorcycle - - - we operate off the assumption that nobody sees us. People at intersections without the right-of-way? Be ready for them to cross your path. Riding through a parking lot or around one of the squares? Someone's liable to back/pull out of a parking space as you approach. By trying to think this way, we're overly aware of everything around us and have a 'Plan B' course of action ahead of time for most things that can happen while we're riding. Nothing's perfect (and we certainly aren't either!!), but having that mindset sure seems to help us avoid some potential problems!

Bill :)