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Social Security is Not an Entitlement!!!
We hear lately the refrain from those in Government about the Social Security "Entitlement."
After working over 42 years at a salary which for the most part exceeded the maximum SSI wage base, I did some calculations of the amounts contributed to SSI by me and my employers. Using a modest 5% growth rate over those 42 years(and 5% was modest in those years) and using a 5% yield into the future, calculates a yield of enough interest to pay my yearly SSI payments with enough left over to pay the government’s portion of my Medicare. Taking this thinking a step further, I looked at a person retiring after working 45 years earning at least the maximum SSI wage base. These calculations yield enough interest to pay their monthly SSI plus mine??? SSI is definitely Not an Entitlement!!! It is an earned pension. If any U.S. Company treated its pension plan like they have treated SSI, the company would have been hauled to court. Sorry about the rant, but I have reached my tipping point!!! As someone else said, this is not political as all in office are to blame! |
Interesting that you did the numbers. I never thought of it that way, but you're right. Corporate employees pensions are protected by law. Why should government "pension" be any different?
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Exactly. I have worked almost 50 years. I have exceeded the maximum contribution every year. And now it's a government gift? Entitlement program? Such BS by our elected representatives. They have used it as a slush fund to give everyone else something in exchange for votes.
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They want me to be ashamed. Shame on them for brain washing the younger folks that SS is a handout. Let them have worked a mile in my shoes.
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Angrily agree. Agree. Agree. Agree! |
Gracie, could you loosen up just a bit and share your true feelings on the topic with us all, please? :1rotfl:
Bill :wave: |
Agree BUT
Agree 100% but we need to write or E-mail all the POLITICIANS & NEWS MEDIA and inform them we invested in SS for 30-50 years. The politicians pension is ENTITLEMENT ! !:grumpy:
OTE=tpop1;405047]We hear lately the refrain from those in Government about the Social Security "Entitlement." After working over 42 years at a salary which for the most part exceeded the maximum SSI wage base, I did some calculations of the amounts contributed to SSI by me and my employers. Using a modest 5% growth rate over those 42 years(and 5% was modest in those years) and using a 5% yield into the future, calculates a yield of enough interest to pay my yearly SSI payments with enough left over to pay the government’s portion of my Medicare. Taking this thinking a step further, I looked at a person retiring after working 45 years earning at least the maximum SSI wage base. These calculations yield enough interest to pay their monthly SSI plus mine??? SSI is definitely Not an Entitlement!!! It is an earned pension. If any U.S. Company treated its pension plan like they have treated SSI, the company would have been hauled to court. Sorry about the rant, but I have reached my tipping point!!! As someone else said, this is not political as all in office are to blame![/QUOTE] |
Tpop1: Good post.
Bill - You are a hoot. :1rotfl: Love ya Gracie. |
I also agree with what others are saying about Social Security. However, the term SSI has been used a number of times in this discussion and we're not talking about SSI. The following excerpt from the Social Security website will explain:
"SSI stands for Supplemental Security Income. The Social Security Administration (SSA) administers this program. SSA pays monthly benefits to people with limited income and resources who are disabled, blind, or age 65 or older. Blind or disabled children, as well as adults, can get SSI benefits."You will find this quote and more about SSI including an explaination on how SSI is different from Social Security at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/text-over-ussi.htm. |
I agree with you all, but as someone who is still working full-time and is 7 years away for SSI, I don't think it will be there for me. So even though I've earned it (I've been working and paying in for 39 years and still have a ways to go), I can't expect SSI to be there for me. What do you say about that?
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Here's some data offering some insight into the benefits of SS. The majority of Americans do not have incomes exceeding the maximum SS wage base, which is currently $106,800.00.
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/...security-share |
Just a question here - not an arguement.
Let's say you worked for 40 years at a job and paid your 5% salary deduction into Social Security for all the years. You retire and start drawing your monthly Social Security benefit at age 65. You (let's assume) live to be 90 years old. In those 35 years between age 65 and 90, will you have taken out more or less than what you put into Social Security over the 40 years of working? If the answer is more, then Social Security is an entitlement? Also what if your spouse has never worked, don't they get part of the Social Security benefit also? |
There is no way you could ever get back what you put into it because if it was a real fund it would still be accumulating interest while you are taking it out. Don't forget you were paying about 15% of your wages all those years.
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Social Security is not a company pension (and by the way lots of companies have reneged on their pension obligations). The money you and I have paid in all these years is not ours and was used to pay those who preceded us. Some of them paid in over 40 years as we did, and many did not. It also paid for widows, disabled citizens and children. Social Security has enough reserves and enough anticipated future income to continue to pay full benefits for another 25 plus years. It does not contribute to the deficit as it is actually right now operating at a profit when you combine the contributions and the income generated by the invested assets. The well runs dry in about 2036. There is not any crisis in Social Security. With no adjustments it can pay 75% of its promised benefits after 2036 until 2085. With minor tweaks it can pay 100% forever.
The crisis is in Medicare which none of us paid enough into to make the claim we are owed it because of our investment. A recent analysis finds that the average person retiring in 2011 has paid only 1/3 of the cost of their medical care. The number is less for those who retired earlier as they had fewer years of paying into medicare. http://www.cleveland.com/nation/inde...rees_paid.html Social Security is safe and should be left alone. We need to be realistic about Medicare being an unsustainable program in its current configuration. Either the benefits need to be cut or the payments into the system increased. Sorry for the long post. |
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If you earn the Max for 45 years compounded at 5% at the end of that period the pot of money in YOUR account would be $725,744!! At 5% interest this pot would yield $36,287 per year, which is more that your SSA payments. If you acturalize it over the next 30 years to age 95, it would throw off $47, 210. Yes not all employees earn the Max and subsequently their SSA payment do not max out either! I will share my spreadsheet if anyone would like it - just PM me with an email address. Blueash - My whole point is that it has been mismanaged and IMHO if it was managed correctly, it would have gone on it forever and provided for all you mention! |
:BigApplause:
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Great to hear like minds, we all worked for it!!
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What everyone seems to forget is:
1. Social Security is a Social program and unlike pure insurance each person will not necessarily get a full return on their "investment". Some will get more and some will get less. If you die when you're 61..you loose. If you live into and beyond your 80's....you received more than you paid in. 2. Everyone seems to forget that during those 40-45 years you were working the program would have provided monthly benefits to you and your family had you become disabled or to your surviving family had you died. 3. If your employer didn't have to pay the 6.75% tax would your salary have increased by that much? Dream on...... Most of us think of Social Security as only a retirement program so we calculate our return on investment at that point. What if we'd become disabled at age 25 or 30 with a spouse and two or three children? What then would be our return on our investment? Can anyone purchase an ins. policy that gives the same protection as Social Security for the same "investment"? |
I remember my first paycheck when I was in early teens. My father (my boss) saw the expression on my face when I looked at my paycheck and started laughing. I was shocked. I said where did all the money go? That's when I really learned about Social Security and tax deductions. That was almost 50 years ago.
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I said, "welcome to the world of reality". He was incredulous they took so much money out of his paycheck. :) |
It is my understanding that the money being put into SS now is paying for the people that are collecting now. Not what we have put in. I have also maxed out SS every year. Being self employed most of my life I paid double SS, the employers portion and the employees portion until the last couple of years when it was changed. I am not, nor have I ever complained about paying my fair share of taxes. We all agree they are necessary. We are and always will be "entitled" to collect SS benifits. Retirement supplement for all working people is why it was set up in the first place. If the goverment would leave their grubby hands out of it there would be plenty of money in SS! IT IS NOT their slush fund to use as they please! Contrary to what they might think! There should be laws protecting the SS fund. Do you seriously think that congress is going to pass them? Not a chance! They would be cutting their slush fund. If SS was used the way it was originally intended there would be a huge amount of money to fund it and your monthly checks would be much higher. Legal and illegal imigrants come to this country, never work a day, put their hand out and we give them everything. Something is very wrong with this picture! That's my story and I am sticking to it!:rant-rave:
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I think you are mixing entitlement with welfare.
An entitlement is considered a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. By Definition, Social security is an entitlement... BUT if you do not get back more than you pay in plus a reasonable interest on your money, it is NOT WELFARE. You earned.. and You DESERVE IT.. and WE SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR MONEY!! We should not allow the government to redistribute it to someone else.. then (as is our current system), it becomes welfare. I think the solution to social security and make is solvent is to pay back to the contributor in the form of an annuity every dime plus a reasonable rate of interest to those who paid.. AND NO MORE. If you die before you receive back your entire investment, it goes to your estate. Those who need welfare after their social security is gone should apply for welfare. I am ready for the predator drone attack. JJ |
sorry.. but
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The so called reserves are a stack of IOUs from a government that has a 15 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT.. that is growing by more than a TRILLION a year. The fed is destroying the value of the dollar every day. Your purchasing power is going down daily. They know it and are doing it on purpose to pay for the excessive government spending.. that both parties use to get elected. .. nibbling away at your savings.. hoping you will not realize it. That is the unfortunate truth and it will never change until enough people wake up and vote for a true reduction in a change in the Federal Reserve, and in the Federal, state, and local government. |
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You can negotiate your pay.. so no one knows if you could have gotten the employer share of SS included in your pay. Just because no one knows, does not mean you would NOT have gotten. Where in the Constitution does the federal government have the right to create this social welfare program? No where. In fact it is specifically prohibited by the 10th amendment. yes many have benefited.. but many have lost much also. |
SSA is not an entitlement
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We paid in enough, ourselves and our employers, to have had expectations of fund large enough to pay our SS Monthy benefits til we die with interest alone; thereby leaving the full amount of that pot to be used for all the other real entitlements listed in this thread. Add to that amount all SS taxes collected for people who died before collecting, there would NEVER be an issue with SS being self sufficient FOREVER. It is because those in office could not resist getting their hands on this easy money for pork, handouts, and other pet projects; that there are questions on its sustainablility. This dipping began if I remember with LBJ's Great Society initiatives. Total mismanagement by elected officials of all stripes has gotten us to where we are today. |
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You can not calculate an ROI because it's a community program. It's retirement insurance. Like all insurance, there are winners and losers. Although you may not want to be a big winner on your Auto, File, Health, and Homeowners insurance. You make years of premiums and never have a claim and you're probably very happy never having a claim. I suppose everybody is a winner on life insurance, although the big winner dies the day after he takes out the policy. The calculation gives the impression of a big ripoff. Actually many in that scenario may do better. There's no way to get a risk-free 5% these days, but the $36,287 is a bit less that a couple would get in guaranteed inflation protected benefits, with just 35 years at the max. Currently, the max FRA benefit is about $2366/mo, a spouse would get 50% of that for $3549/mo, $42,588/yr. Factor in multiple marriages, disability, under age children, and you could be considerably more. And it's all with annual COLA increases. Social Security is simply a retirement insurance policy. It's insurance by ever measure. Many people don't realize the payroll tax is not deductible. You paid income tax on those premiums (FICA), just like any other insurance premium. Normally, insurance premiums are paid in post-tax dollars and the benefit is tax-free. Of course that's changed now, Social Security benefits can be partial taxed. Social Security is sound. It may need some tweaking because we're living longer and it covers more. But there's no rush on that. It has produce a surplus every year for 75 years. By law the SSA can not borrow money. Imagine the early days when everyone started paying in and few collected. Huge surpluses, never accounted for. A couple decades ago, recognizing that the Baby Boomer Bubble was on the way, the rate was increased to accelerate collections and build the trust fund. It worked very well. Most of the boomers will be gone when when the Trust Fund runs out (if we ever use it). While it's true that those excess contributions over the years went into Treasuries, which essentially went out the other door and into the general fund. It's not entirely fair to say politicians stole or misappropriated. The law specifically stated that the excess must go to US Treasures, full faith, and all that stuff. In fairness, there really was little other choice. Where do you put $2.6 Trillion? Ideally, it would have been invested, diversified in stock, bonds, etc. But no one would go along with that. And you're certainly not going to stack up dollar bills in the corner somewhere. So US Treasuries was the only realistic option. And, BTW, they do pay interest. We're approaching the point where not enough is coming in to cover the outgo for Social Security. There's some $2.6 trillion in the fund now, over 99% from the middle and lower class. If those Treasuries are cashed in, it has to come from somewhere. Hence, all the screaming about Social Security. Even though it never contributed one penny to the deficit, and in fact, always contributed to reducing the deficit. The cries (mainly from the right) call for changes to Social Security to avoid raising taxes on the rich, and avoid needing to access the trust fund Treasuries. They want to maintain excess contributions from the middle class to maintain the low tax rates for the top 1%. Simple as that. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPeUrJF6AM8[/ame] |
MikeH, I've been reading these posts and I've been thinking the same thing. My Mother, Father, Father-in-law and Sister-in-law all died without ever collecting anything, but there are a lot of people who have died prematurely, who have spouses who never worked, children under age, disabled people. It goes on and on. They have to, according to our laws, be provided for.
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Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. It was raided during the Johnson Administration to pay for the so-called War on Poverty and VietNam. Basically they wrote I.O.U's that do not have a snow-ball in h*** chance to ever being paid back.
Ladies and Gentlemen, there is no fund sitting there for us to collect. If Johnson and his cronies did not touch it and it was invested properly, you would be very secure in your old age. |
lbj
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Just a reminder...let's try to keep the discussion non-partisan and nonpolitical and on topic. Thank you.
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II amntitlments
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Bottom line
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What is the definition of a Stateman? A Statesman is an out-of-office politician..... and God do we need more Statesmen! |
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ust-fund_x.htm Records are maintained and public. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/qop.html http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/assets.html I'll have to research the Johnson comment. All I recall is that Johnson's Great Society gave us Medicare. |
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