Runners & Walkers in the Diamond Lanes
 

I understand why runners and walkers prefer to run/walk on the asphalt as opposed to the concrete sidewalks. And I also understand why they run/walk in the opposite direction of traffic, as we were all taught as children. But IMO, here in TV, runners and walkers should not be using the diamond lanes in general, but if they do, they shouldn’t go against traffic, and if they do go against traffic...they should be the ones to yield to vehicular traffic.

Today I almost ran over a woman who ran in front of me at an intersection. I was at a Stop sign, waiting to turn right. Traffic was heavy and I (looking to the left) was waiting for my chance to turn right. When I finally saw a break in the traffic I started my turn, and there was a woman, running through the intersection from my right (in the diamond lane), just a couple of feet in front of me.

I hit the brake and she glared at me and threw her arms up...like “what the hell are you doing?” It scared me to death. I hope it scared her even more.

So folks who run in the diamond lane...how about making eye contact with vehicle drivers and making sure that they see you before crossing in front of them. That's how runners do it everywhere else...and it's probably even more important here in TV. Just saying.

Yup, I understand. That happened to me with a biker - they were in my blind spot, same scenario as you mentioned, and couldn't see 'em either and did not see them approach. No harm done but not a good situation.

The other night there was a walker in the golf cart lane...dark shirt, dark shorts...walking in the same direction I was going.

Luckily, I was in my car. Had I been in our cart, he would have been taken out in an instant...I would have never seen him.

I wish they would just use some sense...and the sidewalks. It was only a foot away...

Sidewalks for pedestrians(both walkers and runners) diamond lanes and multimodal paths for wheeled vehicles. Why would someone afoot want to be in the street with carts and cars? One slip by a wheeled vehicle and you could be in the emergency room ( and we know how long that will take) or the morgue.

bottom line if you are in a car or cart. Look both ways before turning. Second the pedestrians have the right of way. It would be a good idea for those who run etc to wear something that makes it eaiser to see them.

When I first came to TV two years ago I asked on TOTV if the cart paths were for runners/walkers too and the general consensus was "yes".

I was also told off several times by cart-drivers for going in the direction of the carts - i.e. on the right - so I switched to the left.

However, last year I was almost run over three times in the space of two weeks - twice by carts that were coming towards me and did not pull out to go round me (once was going over the narrow bridge on Morse near 466 - what was I supposed to do - jump over the edge? Luckily I managed to step on to the parapet and balance until the cart had passed) and once by a car pulling out of a side turning as I was running along Rio Grande.

So now I generally go in the direction of traffic, and haven't had any problems.

As for using the sidewalks. Great idea, but there are very few of them.

All parties need to be considerate and alert. Runners/walkers should wear light colored clothing if out early or late, and motorists/cart-drivers should be on the look-out for all other road users.

Thank you

From a runner's point of view - having 20+ years of road running under my belt.

Many runners, myself included, will not run on concrete when asphalt is available. We can actually feel the difference, and extremely hard surfaces are conducive to foot injuries (I'm a recipient).

Running with the flow of traffic is extremely dangerous to the runner, especially here in the Villages where there are so many poor (at best) drivers. Facing traffic gives me the option of jumping out of harms way when you come at me while texting, eating, chatting on the phone, rubbernecking, or visiting with your passengers. I won't even mention the several "legally blind" drivers I know of whom still choose to drive. One was a neighbor of mine and she admitted that to me.

I myself have thrown my hands in the air and given drivers the "hairy eyeball" when they pull out and cut me off or encroach the shoulder while not paying attention to the task at hand of driving.

There is no doubt that it's dangerous out here for pedestrians, runners and bicyclists, however - there is a responsibility to both motor vehicle (including golf cart) operators and those who choose to exercise, to use caution and be aware of your surroundings.

I agree with you that eye contact is important. I for one, always try to make that contact with vehicle operators and for the reason that you state.

My message is not meant to be contradictory but rather just a runner's viewpoint because as you know, if we end up meeting on the highway, I'll be the one to lose.

I walk a lot, run a bit. I prefer the multimodal paths,
I think the multi means it's not a golf cart path alone.

It's easy on the feet, no cars.
I walk against the traffic flow so I can see 'em coming and I keep very alert.

At intersections and the like, I'm in no hurry, I'll always give the right of way to anything with wheels, including rollerbladers.

It's not so hard to be courteous and aware.

I think the old rule, look both ways before crossing still applies to walkers, runners etc.

We were taught as children to not walk in the traffic nor step out in front of moving vehicles to cross the street.

Also, we were taught that if a vehicle is coming toward you and it looks like they're going to hit you, you get the h*ll out of the way!!!!!!

It's common sense....until we get here.

Here people seem to think they can walk in the traffic and stay as they are if a vehicle is coming at them, and if they get hit and made into roadkill, they say to themselves, "I was right".

You might as well have a tombstone made that says, "I had a right to walk in the traffic."

What is the protocol on the multi-modal paths with walkers vs carts?? One day a couple of weeks ago was out on one going to Colony. If you live down here you will know how really busy and the high traffic there is BOTH on the paths and the roads. Anyway it was particularily busy with carts going both ways when I came upon 2 ladies walking side-by-side and chatting. Had carts before me and carts behind me and I'd just come up on them from a hill. I did slow a bit but couldn't stop OR go around them for obvious reasons and "finally" the one closest to the cart traffic moved behind her partner but at the same time let out a little scream as if she was getting hit. NO WAY would that have happened. I realize they have the right to use these paths etc. as well. I should have added they were going againest traffic and were coming towards me. Couldn't they see that there was heavy cart traffic going both ways?? I agree they have the right to walk these paths but also need to be vigilant just as we all have to be.

As for runners on the diamond paths to the south...I've observed they'll veer onto the sidewalks with carts meeting them AND I do appreciate that they go againest traffic!

It is definately hazardous to traverse in any way here in The Villages and we ALL need to be observant when we're out and about!!!

Oh...and pedestrians do have the right of way on the marked pedestrian cross-walks (that goes for parking lots as well). But they too have to heed the traffic and lights etc.

I get so mad at people who walk with traffic, especially when they are talking, etc...and they think walking two abreast is fine. Don't you want to see what's coming at you????

"multimodal paths for wheeled vehicles." from a post above.....incorrect. Multi modal means just that...like it or not.

If other than wheeled mode go against the traffic.

From my 8 years of walking the multi mode paths here in TV the single biggest problem is golf cart drivers going too fast for conditions and secondly the ones who are just not paying attention and third those who cannot see (very far).

98% of surprises and near incidents would be eliminated if drivers exercise common courtesy....called using the brakes and slowing down....and oh by the way most of them do. We only talk about the small number who are the violators.

btk

Add to that:

- ...Walkers exercising common courtesty by wearing white/bright-colored shirts/jackets instead of dark grey or black as many walkers do;

- ...Walkers watching for what is coming for traffic instead of chatting with a partner or on the phone and daydreaming, oblivious to traffic;

- ...Walkers watching for golf carts that cannot go around them because of car/truck traffic at their side, as NotGolfer described above.

How much more confusion in diamond lane?
 

I was very surprised, upon my last visit, that bicyclists and walkers were allowed in the diamond lane. I thought that that lane was for carts only. Not that I blame joggers for wanting to jog in that lane, it's just there's already so much going on already without adding more confusion in that lane. For what it is, a golf cart community, I think TV could have done a much better job laying things out. I would have been nice to have all cart paths off the main roads and maybe put a diamond lane for bikers and walkers along side the main roads as the cart road is now. It seems there's so much to pay attention to while driving there. I don't think I've ever driven in a place where there's so much concentration needed when driving. That seems like an accident waiting to happen in a retirement community. Safety should be the number one concern. Having said that, I still love it there!

It is what it is and it's not going to get any better so you might as well get used to it. We've been here for five years and it's gotten so much worse in the last couple years. I'm afraid to imagine what winters are going to be like around here in a few more years.

For pedestrians on cartspath before sunrise and after sunset know that bends in the path, over grown shubbery and headlights from carts/cars blinds golf cart drivers view of you irrespective of what you are wearing or if you have a blinking light...so I would consider being on a cartpath with the benefit of daylight when walking/running.

For pedestrians using diamond travel lanes whether you are walking/running with or against the flow of traffic you are causing me to cross over the solid white line and into the flow of automobile traffic when in fact just a few feet away is a sidewalk or if you prefer grass to run on. Golf carts are legally required to stay within that white solid line.

IMHO it should be illegal for a pedestrian to use a diamond lane. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt.

The problem with any discussion like this is that it is human nature for me to want what is best for me.

When walking, I want to be able to use the cart paths and multi-modal lanes.

When driving my golf-cart I want all pedestrians off my stretch of the tarmac, and that goes for bikers and roller-bladers too!

And when driving my car I just know I own the whole road, and those golf-carts are just a menace.

Certainly, runners/walkers should use sidewalks and grass verges whenever practical, but I know from experience that (a) most roads do not have sidewalks and (b) many of the grass verges are uneven or sloping, and are thus uncomfortable or dangerous.

Slow down, share the road, be aware of ALL other road-users.

This morning on St. Charles cart lane there were two woman on bicycles riding in tandem and each one had a dog tethered to the bike via a leash. The dog is running alongside the bike on the white line only a couple of feet from passing cars. I've seen three different woman doing this on St. Charles over the past six months, but today was the first time seeing two together.

It's only a matter of time before one of these dogs will be hit by a car and killed, which is going to be terrible for the driver and the innocent dog that has the ignorant owner. Yes, it's great to keep your dog healthy but alive is much better. I think next time I see this I'm going to say something, but usually I'm in too much shock, it's really quite a sight.

You are exactly right. Seeing this would make me think "roadkill waiting to happen" and it would be my worst nightmare to even imagine hitting a dog like this, which in turn would pull the dumb bicyclist down and under cars' wheels too. It would be a horrific sight never to be forgotten. I don't know how people who do such things will ever wake up.

Then it must be illegal to pass another golf cart?

I have no problem with walkers,runners, cycles who are in the streets.Just a little give and take.

best comment paulandjean!!!
And most people do, but there will always be a few no matter what or where.

And for those who have to go over 20, if not here maybe in another thread....why? Think about it going 25-28 mph puts you a few minutes ahead at the end of AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!! So what could be so needed to risk going faster than everybody else to save a minute or two???

btk

"Solid White Line
A solid white line marks the right edge of the roadway or separates lanes of traffic moving in the same direction. You may travel in the same direction on both sides of this line, but you should not cross the line unless you must do so to avoid a hazard."

Copied from Florida Drivers Handbook.

I would think moving over to avoid a hazard would include moving over to avoid hitting a pedestrian or bicyclist.

I would expect pedestrians to use sidewalks where available. Where not available I move over, slow down or even stop depending on the traffic behind me. A lot of our pedestrians no longer possess the agility to hop up on the curb.

This thread reminds me of what happened last year...came down to TV to visit friends who were residents for 8 years. They were going to let me use their golf cart and took me out for a test run. I was driving on on of the streets and my friend said, "you see those two people walking towards us, right?" I said, "I sure do"....as we got a little closer he said, "you do see those people, right? I said, "yep, I do." As we were approaching them he yelled, "you see those people?????" and I said, "aren't they going to go on the curb?" He said "they may or may not"....so at this point I had people walking in front of me and a car on my left side, so I simply stopped. I got dirty looks from the walkers. It made for a good story when I got back home and told my friends of my first use of a golf cart.

A little off topic, but, thanks for reintroducing "diamond lane" Skybo. I realize it has been used before and I hope it gets more use. We can relegate "cart path" to golf courses and go with "multi modal" and "diamond".

Just when you thought you'd seen everything...
 

One night this week while waiting to make a right turn on Odell Circle, we saw a golf cart with a car closely following in the diamond lane. The car wasn't half in the lane but was all the way inside the lane. They then both made a left hand turn from the right side diamond lane. So we have to believe they were visitors who had no clue about TV's golf cart lanes are not for cars, or that they needed to merge with traffic before executing the left hand turn. There's a private golf cart rental on that street where they made the left hand turn, and so it may be they were returning the golf cart and the gc driver told the car driver "just follow me" but not literally. We've seen cars wander over the line but this was the first time we've seen a car actually in the "diamond" lane. Another reason for runners to avoid the diamond lane.

Believe it or not this JUST happened to me. Driving in a diamond lane and a bike rider is riding against traffic in the diamond lane BUT there just happens to be cars in the normal lanes. SO everybody is comming right at her and she has a problem. She gets off the bike, goes to the curb for she has no other place to go, allowing the golf carts and car to pass safety. I would hope her own actions will tell her she was not doing the right thing.

Two years ago I had a golf cart coming straight at me on Canal Street with two women. They may have been from the UK. Cars started hollering at them and they crossed over to the correct side of the road. Maybe your bicyclist was also from the UK?

then why get so excited?

The OP was asking about the diamond lanes. They are clearly marked for carts and bicycles, NOT walkers/runners/dogs, etc. At least on Morse they are. They are not multi-modal paths.

I suspect that may just be to keep things simple, rather than having to add "and runners and walkers" every time. After all, there are many cart paths that have white posts at the start that say "No Cars", but if you drove a truck up that cart path and argued that they weren't specifically banned...

Thanks for all the feedback. I was half afraid to come back and read this thread, I was expecting to get blasted for my OP. I appreciate that even the runners gave me a break. I agree that vehicle drivers should look both ways (even when turning right). I did, in fact, glance to my right a couple of times while I sat at the stop sign and I never saw her coming, but even so, because I was focused on the traffic to my left, I started to move forward before making sure that no one was coming from my right or directly in front of me and that was my fault.

The problem is, I’ve lived here now for almost a year, and I realize the potential dangers out there and I work very hard at driving carefully and being considerate of everyone else on the road whether they are driving a vehicle or on foot. And even so, in a split second, I almost made what could have been a fatal mistake. In my scenario, I had just barely touched the gas pedal before I saw her and was easily able to stop. Someone else might have hit the gas harder and not been able to stop. A new visitor might not even realize that there are runners frequently coming from their right. I know that during the first few hours of my first visit here, I *assumed* that the diamond lanes were for carts only, and it wasn’t until I had driven around for awhile that I even realized there were pedestrians using the lane.

We must all be so careful out there no matter our mode of transportation.

What to do?
 

Twice in two days, I have driven north on Rio Grande Ave in my golf cart in the golf cart lane. The traffic was heavy and both times the walkers and the runner stayed in the middle of the golf cart lane. I had cars on my left, a curb on my right. Yesterday two walkers looking at me walking toward me and today a runner looking at me running toward me. The only thing I could do was stop and hope the cart behind me didn't rear end me. Today this runner after he ran past me shouted at me.

What to do?

A runner on Canal was waving a cart in front of me and me off expecting us to pull left into the roadway so he could continue.

I do not think it is legal to leave the diamond lane until it merges with the road such as Canal at O'Dell, unless of course for a hazard, etc. However I do not wish to move left onto the roadway and risk being rearended by a car. Runners/pedestrians mistakenly believe that they are very visible but for myriad reasons they are not always visible which can create a sudden and abrupt need to pull left into the roadway to avoid colliding with them.


Frankly i don't care what is easier on their feet it is a dangerous practice to continue to allow pedestrian onto a roadway and it must be stopped before someone gets hurt

No cart path, no diamond lane, just the road!
 

So what is your solution for an area like mine, where we all have to use the road? No cart path, no diamond lane, no nothing ------ and we all manage to get along just fine ..................

I live in an area where there are no sidewalks, what do you suggest I do?
Are we all in such a hurry that we can't be a little patient and move over for walkers/runners if it is safe and runners/walkers can move too if they see it is not safe for the carts to move into traffic. Come on Villagers, be nice, be considerate and keep smiling!

As is so common in this sort of thread, it starts with someone doing something wrong then trying to blame the other person, who is in the right.

Here, the motorist failed to look both ways, yet blames the runner for appearing out of nowhere!

Soon all motorists are detailing the close calls they've had, and demanding that those who aren't using a motor should keep off the roads.

Human nature - don't you just love it?

Madelaine: Without knowing what road you are referencing and its conditions, lighting, etc I can respond. However the streets I referenced in my post all have diamond lanes and hence carry heavy traffic.

Your post has caused me to further inquire with various police departments as to the legalities.

This issue is not about rights as it is about safety

Well if you are not sure about walkers or runners,the best thing to do is just stop and let them pass.No big thing......................