Anyone know the breakout of fulltime vs snowbirds in TV?
 

Lately it seems like besides our normal circle of friends that we socialize with, all the people we meet are snowbirds. Does anyone know the current breakout of what the percent for each is? I had read in the past somewhere it was 60% fulltime and 40% snowbird. The wife and I feel that this can't be correct.
Thanks!
Army Guy

Snowbirds vs Fulltime
 

I have been here 8 years and think that the percentage of fulltimers is rising. Have no idea of what that percentage is. When the Village Survey is complete the powers that be should know. At least temporarily. I have heard some people disparage snowbirds but they pay their amenities, water, sewer, garbage collection, etc year around. Keeps the price down for fulltimers like me. I never complain about them except incidentally because of the terrible traffic during the Winter.

It's an iteresting question and I would be curious to learn the answer and then I would be interested in seeing how the FT versus PT numbers have been trending over the last 5-10 years.

Although we are snow flakes, the majority of those who live on our street live here full-time.

You get a break when the snowbirds head north. They pay the same fees as everyone else but leave TV for you to enjoy during the warm months. Just think how miserable you'd be if everyone was here full time.

:mademyday:

I suspect that a full analysis would have to look at both income and whether the folks are fully retired or not. Mid and lower income, fully retired are probably 2/3 or 3/4 full time while higher income, still working are more like 2/3 part time. Those part timers are more likely to eat out and cause the traffic and long wait times. That's just a guess on my part but I see a lot of empty premiers in summer and not so many empty homes in other neighborhoods.

This is one of The Developer's darkest secrets. The TV surveys and other sources of info for years, tell him EXACTLY the number of full-timers/part-timers. I've never seen any reliable info on the relative percentages. That sends me a loud, clear message: that full-timers are still outnumbered.

I believe this situation is not seen as an asset by The Developer. Until the day comes that he can brag about most of us making s lifetime commitment here, I don't think we will get any accurate data. No Freedom of Information Act in effect here, but I've already traded that stuff for the koolaid.

Sumter County has a seasonal vacancy rate of 17%.

Obviously, the Developer has the information available as to the breakdown of full time/part time as it is one of the questions asked yearly in the Survey. Yet I've never seen that information published and people are obviously curious about it. The "party line" as espoused by the Sales Reps is that it is around 60% full time and 40% part time.

I find the opinion from ijusluvit to be very interesting, as to why the information isn't released. I would speculate further that if the true number of absentee owners were known, it might highlight the fact that there are a heck of a lot of rentals going on. And a high rate of rental properties isn't necessarily a selling feature for a retirement community.

[QUOTE=Barefoot;476646]Obviously, the Developer has the information available as to the breakdown of full time/part time as it is one of the questions asked yearly in the Survey. Yet I've never seen that information published and people are obviously curious about it. The "party line" as espoused by the Sales Reps is that it is around 60% full time and 40% part time.

:agree:

This was my undertanding from the Sales Reps.Not only is the winter a full town but each houshold "entertains visitors" in addition to normal numbers. So instead of an average of 2 folks per house we may have an average of 4. When our visitors come down we eat out....Hence the long waits.

This week, Easter, is the most packed I remember just from Polo, cart traffic etc. Many families.......

In the summer many folks head out to visit so it gets very quiet round here. Not too many visitors here in the summer.....

Renters
 

How many "renters" are there? North of 466 seems to have "thinned out" already. South of 466 seems still busy!

Why does the developer know?
 

How could he? Not everyone hands in the survey. I have 2 houses, only did one survey. To me it's a statistic that never will be known. Even utilities are kept on in the summer. All I know is there are 4 snowbird homes on our street and 2 rentals out of 18 houses.

You're right Borjo, not everyone hands in the Survey. And the ratio probably changes rapidly with all the buying and selling, and many Snowbirds convert to Frogs.

Still, Army Guy asked the question. A lot of people wonder. It would be interesting to know an approximate percentage based on Survey information.

not everybody fills out a census but they still project a population. there are ways to analyze any type of data and get a pretty accurate estimate. even if you keep utilities on, the usage data gets analyzed and they can figure out if the house is occupied or not...

As others have noted, there's probably not an accurate count as not all fill in the survey. All of Florida has a sizable population of seasonal residents.

The attached article estimates that 1 million of Florida's 18-million plus 2010 population were seasonal residents.
Florida State Demographics | eHow.com

Doubt the number of seasonal residents in TV would hurt TV sales as snowbirds are a well-known fact of life about Florida. As in all of Florida, there is not a good way to calculate the percentage of PT vs FT residents. TV is similar to other destination communities in Florida in that many of the full time residents started out as snowbirds or snowflakes.

Again. Sumter County does calculate this figure and in 2011 the seasonal vacancy rate was 17%.

Hi gvsulakerfan,
Are you saying that the "seasonal vacancy rate" means the same thing as part-time residency? I would have thought "seasonal vacancy rate" refers to the number of available rooms for rent that are unoccupied. BTW, do you have a source you could link. Thanks much.

With all due respect, the number of the surveys returned is probably 5-10 times higher than necessary to get a completely reliable statistical sample.

Add the mountain of other information, such as utility records, postal records, rec center and golf course ID card scans, rental records, ID surrender files, newspaper subscriptions etc., etc,.

What you get is a number of full vs part-timers that is easily within 1% of the EXACT, ACTUAL number, for any recent year. That's what The Developer KNOWS. I'd bet my socks he's anxiously waiting to see if this year's figures show an increase in full-timers.

No sense arguing about it as no matter what the numbers are it will have no effect on my life. Sometimes too much emphasis is spent on want to know versus need to know. In my neighborhood there is yet another group that I call Vacation birds. Only here for vacations in both winter and summer fora week or two and do not rent to others. Personally o not understand it financially as for as liitle time spent here they could rent. So far one couple realized this and now has their home up for sale but the others are only here when they get vacation time from work.

We are vacationers only. We bought this month with the plan to spend winters here in 2-3 years. We will spend more than 2-3 weeks tho. I will spend more time while my husband will fly back and forth for work when needed. Until he retires full time.

I also had neighbors who only used their house as a weekend vacation spot. But now they've sold it and bought a bigger house near Brownwood.

I guess a lot of it depends on how much time they're able to spend in TV over the course of a year. True - if it's only a week or two over the course of the year, then it doesn't make pure financial sense to own a home in TV unless they have future plans that will change the 'week or two a year' scenario......or if they're in a position where the money implications don't really matter.

Sandy and I are able to make it to TV for about 7-8 weeks a year but we have to spread it over several trips throughout the year. The math for owning a home in TV adds up to be a bit more than what we were already spending to rent or for hotel stays........but now we get the enjoyment of home ownership in TV! It's our place, we can show up any time we like, no more fooling around with making rental/hotel reservations, renting a golf cart, etc. We're rolling the dice on what we'll see for a potential increase in the value of the property moving forward but that looks to be headed in a positive direction, at least at this point in time.

Sometimes it simply comes down to "You want what you want", even if the financials aren't completely favorable! :pepper2:

JMHO

Bill :)

Wow, looks like I really asked a good question!
As I said, I am of the camp that tends to believe that there are way more then 40% part-time, snowbirds, etc and way less then 60% of us fulltimers. Just listen to WVLG when they do the "roving mic" reports from the squares, over 90% of the time they are talking with non-fulltimers. Then I look at my villa community. There are 60 villas, in season all are filled, in summer only about 15, which is way less then 60%. Plus the wife and I like to ride in our golf cart some afternoons, when the season is over go for a ride and really look at the homes as you go by, and you will seem a large number closed up in the summer, i.e. blinds drawn, patio furniture stacked or none, and other things that signal seasonal resident.
I agree the stats should be released, cause again I do not want TV becoming a seasonal resort and very few of us.
By the way as far as snowbirds not liking paying the fees and things they have to pay all year, I do not recall anyone telling them when they bought that they could not stay all year. They knew it then, and no one twisted their hands to buy knowing that, it is and was their choice. I know it sounds cold, but that is the facts.
Army Guy

In all my years at TV I have yet to hear a single 'snowbird' complain about the 'fees'.

However, I've heard countless negative comments from 'frogs' about 'snowbirds'; mostly about how crowded we make things in the winter. But I've even heard complaints about why it's the 'snowbirds' fault that businesses struggle during the summer, that they are so 'privileged' not to have to endure the summer heat, etc. This bias and prejudice is the single worst feature of TV, in my opinion.

Based on my very scientific observations it seems to me to that snowbirds are 47.86 % of the population, + or - 30%. These figures are about as accurate as a long range weather forcast.

I couldn't have said it better. :BigApplause::agree:

I have to admit that when I hear fulltime residents complain about seasonal residents, it makes me sad. And when they blame us for clogging up the roads and taking their tee times and causing accidents and making them wait in restaurants, I feel sad and unwanted. We love The Villages just as much as you do. And we gladly pay taxes and amenities all year long. Please be nice to seasonal residents.

Yes, many snowbirds do complain about the fees, especially the amenity fee cause as they put it, they are not using the things so they should not have to pay for them.
Let me say and before I start let me say it is just my and my friends feelings, all snowbirds are not bad, BUT by and large a large portion of them are, in that they are rude and feel they should have priority over all because they are only here for half the year but pay for all. Several of my friends and my wife and I included have been told that point blank by snowbirds. I can also say as a fact that believe it or not even the Businesses are ready by the end to see them go because of their rudeness. My wife and I go out to eat almost every night and have gotten to know many of the servers and owners of eating places and they have a hard time with them.
I could go on sometime on how we have been treated by Snowbirds, but once again it is NOT ALL, but most of them.
And as far as businesses having it tough in the summer, we have never seen it! They are busy as ever, just no one-two hour waits!
Let me add this question, if most of TV is fulltimers, why do most of the clubs and groups stop or as they put it "take vacation" of meetings when the snowbirds leave? Do we deserve not to have clubs as fulltimers or do we need seperate fulltimers only clubs, etc? Just a thought!
Army Guy

1) I've never spoken to anyone in your world

2) "all snowbirds are not bad, BUT by and large a large portion of them are." This is the 21st century. As a nation and a world we have all seen the ugliness and insanity of racial, religious, ethnic and 'othe'r group prejudice. If you were in the service, you saw it everywhere you were. You, sir have not learned anything from that. You should be ashamed of your irrational negative categorizing of thousands of people you've never met. Were you to leave TV forever, it would be a better place.

If a snowbird becomes a full time resident, do they automatically go from bad to good??:)

:agree::agree:

Army Guy you are WaY OfF BaSe!!

.

+1

Army guy you need an attitude adjustment

Army Guy used to be a snowbird. I guess he was a member of the tiny minority of good ones.
I honestly have never heard a snowbird complain about any expenses of living in The Villages. We knew the costs up front and accepted them. It's just part of having two homes. We'll be heading north soon leaving utopia to the fulltimers. We pay taxes and fees at our northern homes and accept that as well. It goes with the territory.
Interesting point is that I have heard locals complain about TV residents in general without making any distinction based on time spent in TV. Most anywhere you go there's a feeling of ill will for the interlopers. Up north we have the dreaded weekend people. Those who make money off them tolerate them, the rest of us could definitely live without them.
If someone has a problem with the way clubs and recreation activities perhaps that should be addressed with the proper authorities. Snowbirds have nothing to do with the lack of activities when we are away.

No...they just start complaining about snowbirds. :)

As I’ve said before...in my short time here, the snowbirds, renters and visitors have been among the happiest and friendliest people I’ve met. The rude people I’ve encountered...I have no idea if they are full-timers or part-timers. Probably a combination of both. I think the “crowded season” brings out the worst in all people.

:eclipsee_gold_cup: Now that's funny!

There's a story about an immigrant waiting on line at Ellis Island to be granted admittance to the United States. After a long wait, they let him enter the country. He turns around to the immigrant standing behind him and yells "go back where you came from...you immigrants are ruining this country". I love my snowbird neighbors and friends. But I also admit that I also enjoy the brief window when the snowbirds head north, traffic and crowds thin out, and the weather is still beautiful before the heat of summer hits us. My enjoyment of a less crowded community does NOT mean that I don't value all the great friends I have made that are seasonal.

I like the villages that's why I'm here, I assume the same for others living here, what more is there to know?

I don't begrudge anyone else enjoying the villages. I don't like crowds and traffic...neither do the birds, flakes or frogs....whose only crime is living in the house they bought here.

somebody needs to shoulder their pack and take a hike...

Don't you dare be sad Bare...or an Bird of any kind be hurt or take offense. I think frogs do love to tease birds on occasion. Now that I am a frog, I like to make a little fun of the birdies.

Army Guy is a good person too and I know he meant no harm. We all just talk and post on here too much until it is like picking a scab.

Do you know that one know it all woman on here has almost ten thousand posts? and she continues to ramble on?

Sheesh.

I would like to go on record that the cowboys and the farmers should be friends....and so should birds and frogs.

Peace. AND REMEMBER. THERE IS NO PEE IN LAKE SUMTER.

Army Guy's comments weren't teasing or in jest. They were mean spirited. I don't think "a large portion of snowbirds" should be called rude, that's a sweeping generalization. However everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's the purpose of a Forum. Long live TOTV.

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