Guts...And Shame
 

In case anyone doesn't remember, today is the anniversary of the D Day invasion, June 6, 1944.. Pure guts on the part of then young Americans who changed the world and defeated Hitler on that "longest day".

But there were other examples of guts that day, which we didn't learn of until many years later.

The historical archives show that General Eisenhower wrote a letter of resignation, which he intended to submit if the invasion did not achieve its objectives.

The archives also include the three letters from King George to Winston Churchill imploring him not to go on one of the leading landing craft with British soldiers when they hit the beach. The king finally convinced Churchill that his continued leadership of England was more important than leading the army in the invasion.

Even FDR demonstrated guts in authorizing an invasion that if it didn't work would have killed thousands of soldiers, only six months before the 1944 presidential elections.

Guts? You'd better believe it. A "greater generation"? I'd argue absolutely!

I believe we still have military that would demonstrate that kind of leadership. But are there any of our current political leaders who anyone might argue would demonstrate that kind of leadership? Would any of them put their jobs at risk based on whether their political decisions worked out for the country? Name one you think might demonstrate such guts. Just one.

The answer is obvious...and shameful.

I am not trying to be facetious but John McCain's pick of Sarah Palin for his VP was a huge gamble on his part given the amount of vetting his campaign team did of Palin. McCain's gamble on Palin does show a great deal of bravery. More courage than common sense though.

I do not see Mitt Romney nor Barack Obama putting their political careers on the line by taking such a gutsy move though. They are both too logical, careful and slow in their calculations to storm the beachheads in a literal or even a figurative sense.

VK,
That is comparing apples and oranges. WWII and the Allied invasion of Normandy was not a unilateral landing by the US. It was a combined invasion by the Allied forces against a joint enemy.

Yes, it was a risky venture by the Allies and a terrible thing to lose so many lives but it worked out for the best and broke the back of Germany and Italy. We cannot compare the storming of the beaches at Normandy to anything in today's world.

I would suggest many words for McCain's pick of Palin but bravery is not one of them. :ohdear:

That seems more about leadership than about the world being very different.

The adventurer politician-- Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, JFK-- seems to be a breed that has pretty much died out.

No matter what else you might say of him, George W. Bush was that kind of leader. He had that kind of courage and fortitude without question, and the personnel of the military knew it, and loved him for it.

Never really got that from Bush. He was/is a cheerleader; not someone who puts life and limb at risk. George W. Bush (Yale) - Cheerleader of the 1960s - Photos - SI Vault

Cheerleading of the past two decades is a dangerous sport; but that of the 1960s does not look like a whole lot of very difficult dance moves were involved.

George W. Bush did/does love the military though. There are not very many modern leaders who are also men of action.

WOW! This is absolute proof that beauty is subjective. It's better than hanging a 3-year old's finger paintings in the Louvre!

JohnnyM had a great post from 2008 about heroism and Hollywood.
 

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...llywood-11939/

Have not seen nor heard from Johnny M. for a long time. He used to bring his rescued Greyhound to Doggie Doo Run Run once in a while but have not seen him for probably more than 18 months.

His February 2008 post was about movie stars who used to fight in wars because of their patriotism. Some of these stars were in the Normandy invasion around D-Day or just after.

French Guide
 

I remember a couple of years ago when we were on a Transatlantic cruise
and a stop was in Cherboug. We had been to the D Day sites a few times
so decided to just take a tour on a bus as it was relaxing. The bus had a
"French Guide" and the total time to the Memorial the French Guide braged
about how great DeGaulle was and his return to France and the dedicated
Frenchmen who died on D Day. She never mentioned the Americans who had thousands who fought and died on the invasion. Finally an American Vet who was on the bus shouted out to her could she pronounce "American" and after a push she finally said "American" and all clapped on the bus. What she did not say was that ONLY 7 Frenchmen died on D Day beaches vs the thousands of Americans who died to free the French. Enough said. :evil6:

When did F.D.R., the President who ordered D-Day, put his "life and limb at risk"?

You're changing the parameters of the question, now that I answered it.

I know why, so you really don't have to answer why you did that.

How do you say that George W. Bush was a courageous President? I just do not see that. What did he take risks with in his Administration?

FDR did take big risks with going forward with the D-Day campaign. As Villages Kahuna pointed out.


This is an interesting article from Joe Scarborough-- Opinion: The courage to come home - Joe Scarborough - POLITICO.com

The OP posited that there are no politicians today of the caliber of those in the past that he admired for making tough decisions without regard to their personal impact.

I submitted that I thought George W. Bush is indeed of that same caliber. I never said he made exactly the same decisions as those leaders did, but that he would have, without question. George W. Bush proved time and again that he put the nation before himself.

There is no contemporary of his you can say this about.

"George W. Bush proved time and again that he put the nation before himself"

Now, just a minute, RichieLion. If George W. had put the nation before himself, why did he get all the strings pulled to get him into the Texas Air National Guard instead of volunteering for Regular Army (or other branch) and then volunteering to go to Vietnam?

Let's not divert this question with saying what others did but stick with George W.

As someone who is a fanatic of sorts on history, I can assure you that history will treat GW Bush very kindly as greatness of men is always measured in hindsight.

On another sort of unrelated note......the famous drones that are always in the headlines were actually developed by the CIA, not the military and OKd by none other than GW Bush.

Most importantly to the thread theme, the one point the stands out in the thread opener is that that generation of which I as a young lad, was the greatest generation as Tom Brokaw has said. Character counted then....it does not now count nearly as much.

You have little real knowledge of the circumstances of his military service beyond partisan rumor and lies, and so I will ignore your deriding his service, and will not comment on his service in a way that suggests it needs defending. He actually does have military service unlike almost every contemporary political figure you admire.

We're discussing Presidents here, and statesmen. George W. Bush was a true statesman, and the first since Ronald Reagan. He's also the last one, so far.

What exactly did George W. Bush do that was so statesmanlike??? Facts about GEORGE W. BUSH ***

George W. Bush is listed as one of the worst US Presidents in the rankings of US Presidents-- Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First of all, those tax cuts you have enjoyed came from him !!!

But when I think of GW Bush, I recall how he brought honor and dignity to the White House and completely changed the tone there in OUR house. He introduced the mention of God into public. And most importantly I will never forget the way he handled with such courage, dignity and grace and leadership the September 11 attacks along with the aftermath of various anthrax attacks and such. He held this country together through that period !

PS....I also must add that he, and not him alone but certainly the last, had the guts to have open unrehearsed prime time press conferences and take questions in front of the American public on any and all subjects. THAT I miss.

Thanks you for answering, Bucco. George W. Bush always extolled the greatness of America and American ideals, apologized to nobody for our greatness, and did it all with solid American stature and humor.

I'm have no intention of reading how his enemies view him. If indeed Wiki lists him as T says for whatever questionable reasons, it drags Wiki down to the bottom of reputable reference sources, in my view.

When I think of George W., I think of his lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the invasion that cost over 4,400 American lives and left hundreds of thousands with mental and physical scars for life.

Yes, he is regarded as one of the worst presidents in history for his last term and had a 29% approval rating when he left office - lower than Jimmy "the wimp" Carter.

In your revisionist world, only. I'll leave you to your Bush Derangement.

VK I happen to agree with you. We just don't make men like that anymore. These guys were not only gutsy but also stood by their word to serve, accept responsibility for their decision and led by example. Thank you for reminding us all that such people worthy existed and can in the future. We have honorable servicemen and women willing to give their lives for our freedom. They deserve worthy leaders.

Personal Best Regards

isn't "political leader" an oxymoron?

At a minimum it is a 21st century partisan, permissive pacifism impossibility.

btk

This Thread Answers My Question
 

We're now well into the third page of responses to my original post. And we haven't even reached agreement on the only politician who's been mentioned as demonstrating the same kind of courage as those of a couple generations ago.

The responses so far seem to answer the question I posited initially, don't you think? And that's shameful.

The day of the "rugged individual" is almost gone. It's being bred out of our culture. It's not nice to win anymore. We're being conditioned to mistrust instead of admiring achievers; we strive for equal outcome.

Is it any surprise that we're in the state you find "shameful"?

Surprise Maybe Not...
 

Continual disappointment? Yes.

Richie: You made a comment about Bush not apologizing for our greatness.

I don't expect a President to apologize for our greatness.

I expect a President to apologize for our mistakes.

Richielion: We have lost far too many rugged individuals because of many years of exposure to the trophy generation and to helicopter parents. In part is is one of the bad by products of the feminist movement, Another bad by product resulted with the disappearance of true feminity and nuturing. Instead we get the likes of the House Wives of .............and reality shows of its ilk. there is a saving grace because there are reports on the horizon of guys who have come to recognize this loss and want to counter it. and along those same lines women are returning to what a man use to represent. Let's hope it becomes a movement because whether some people believe it or not men are different from women and I don't mean it in the sense that women are the weaker gender. This is a good thing because guided correctly they complement one another making for a better society.

I opine others can decide.

I hope you're not referring to the infuriating manner our current resident of the "people's house" bows to foreign leaders in their countries, and as our elected leader apologizes for the past actions of the greatest country in the history of man.

If anyone has any problem with the way I just defined our country, you are just as bad as he in my eyes.

This president has been a major embarrassment in this regard.

I think your original post fails to take into account all of the necessary aspects of what constitutes courage.

First, I do not agree with the "Greatest Generation" theory. And the real problem with it is how it is used to denigrate other generations, especially those now occupying and responsible for the planet. Comparing the present US with the country in the 1940's is truly comparing apples to oranges. What we often forget is that the decision makers of the time, including Eisenhower and Roosevelt were, at the most critical times, doing what they had no alternative but to do. Not only were we directly attacked on land and sea, but it was clear to everyone that the Axis forces had a single goal, to dominate and subjugate the Allies. There was no choice in June of 1944. Only one year later, with the invention of the atomic bomb, Harry Truman seemingly had a choice, to invade Japan or use the bomb. But today we Americans all agree he really had no choice. And, of course, since we all agree that these important decisions were also the RIGHT decisions, the idea that they are monumentally courageous seems grow larger with each passing year.

I think an even higher level of courage comes from making the right decision when there are real choices. Like Sgt. Dakota Meyer, the Marine who chose to drive repeatedly into enemy fire in Afghanistan, saving more than 20 Afghans and a dozen US comrades from almost certain death. He did this in defiance of orders from superiors. His choices were so obviously courageous that he has been awarded the Medal of Honor.

So what politician could be considered courageous? I think the best current example is President Obama. (sorry if this gives you a stomach ache, but) Obama campaigned on an platform which many saw as liberal enough to really be a CHANGE from prior ineffective leadership. He claimed he was a centrist, but made it clear that he had an ambitious agenda which he called critically necessary for America. He did not have to pursue this agenda tirelessly, but he believed each of the elements of it was the right thing to do. Every single element: health care, economic stimulus, financial regulation, consumer protection, ending war, fighting terror effectively, the entire national tax structure, equal rights within the military, equal marriage rights, jobs programs, the rebuilding of the country's infrastructure, and the balance of energy development with environmental protection, is intensely controversial. Each element has been an enormous struggle. For the mere mention of each element Obama has been vilified high and low. Much attention has been paid to the risks Obama took in his "all in" effort to get a health care package, and ordering the assault on bin Laden's compound, but continuing to pursue each one of the above has come with the real prospect of destroying his political future.

I also think the elements of the Obama platform were and still are the right things to do. They are not all done, and they are far from perfect, but what has been done is more than many Presidents have even attempted. Therefore, I applaud Obama's courage.

That's quite a post. Cannot really say that I know that much about Obama to comment. I have not read any of his books and cannot really say I follow his politics very closely. ObamaCare did take guts but it sounds more like something he planned on doing for a very long time???? Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Obamacare or the idea of it was part of his 2008 election??

Obama calls for universal health care - USATODAY.com This is from January 2007.

It sounds like the universal health care in the US was part of the job description Obama wrote for himself while campaigning. Not sure how he could give such a big commitment up and still run for President in 2012.

Richie: If it made you feel bad when Obama did something that resembled a bow to the Japanese Prime Minister (if I'm remembering my events correctly), I probably felt worse when Bush was fawning all over the Saudi dictator during a state visit (to say nothing of his impromptu back-rub he foisted on German Chancellor Angela Merkel)

Not quite the same thing, but you're entitled to your opinion. We've all got one.

He bowed to the Saudi King, the Japanese Emporer, and worst of all, he bowed to the Chinese President on American soil. Your memory is seriously flawed here.

If you want to compare bowing to foreign potentates, and groveling and apologizing to the world for the past actions of our country, to President Bush treating foreign leaders with respect they may not deserve, go ahead.

Okey-dokey.

To those who subscribe to the theory that the Greatest Generation is a myth fail to recognize that this generation faced the GreatDepression and judging by their generous behavior as exhibited in movie, song and commentary did so with surprisingly more courage and class than do the present whinning generations of today. To those who subscribe to the theory that the Greatest Generation had no choice but to........negates the true greatest of these people who were facing " a world at war" and either is not aware or ignores the fact that America was not prepared for a world war and but for many leaders in the business community who had the insight and courage to turn from making butter to making guns( because we were not prepared and lacking greatly in ships airplanes tanks ammunitions, etc)had they not we all would be speaking Nazi-isms today. And Truman's decision to use the A-bomb had to be one of the most difficult in the history of this country. Apparently the true greatness of this generation is fading with the passage of time....but then we have as some believe the courage of Obama that is showing us how to lead from behind and if things go wrong blame others. To compare the greatness of Obama to leaders such as Truman, Eisenhower, etc is to compare pure poetry to bupkus.

Yes there are some extrordinry examples of courage and class by members of our military but make no mistake it doesn't not translated to the President & Chief, Congress,many in the business community and forgetself absorbed Hollywood . Iopine other decide

Nothing you have presented suggests exceptional courage. The will to survive perhaps, but that is instinctual. If you say the "greatest generation" was more courageous because they suffered more from depression and the hardships of a war (fought thousands of miles away), then that pales bycomparison to the 'courage' of the Somalians, Bosnians, Nigerians, Syrians and Libyans whose lives have been torn apart recently. Or the Poles, Jews, Russians and other Europeans of the 40's. I could go on and on, but the common denominator is that these unfortunates had NO CHOICE in what occurred and how they dealt with it. Survival or death. Only a choice for the hopeless or already defeated.

The resolve to chose the difficult, right course when it is just as easy to do otherwise. THAT is courage. A President, like Obama, who sticks to what a current majority of Americans believe is the hard but correct road, despite the withering attacks, for myriad reasons, from the political and economic self interests... THAT is courage. And despite how much you and a few other posters here are in total disagreement, I think Obama is the best current example of a courageous politician, the original question of this thread.