Paying for the Health Care Bill....
 

xxx

Bumping because I added more taxes. If I added in error or forgot any, let me know or add by post.

Funny how when truth about Obama care is posted supporters are missing or if do quote just call names.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2...3966651625.jpg

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Priceless!

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This same exact post appeared a few days ago here - maybe some folks are bored when they keep seeing the same cut-and-paste posting over and over again.

But, if it'll make you feel better..............

A tax on tanning salons??? Ohhhhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/ima....jpeg?71d0ff77

You know guys the silly little cartoons comparing apples to oranges and trying to keep the ideology divide alive serves no purpose.

The reason I posted this and will update when I find more, if you had not noticed, this country is in bad, bad financial shape. Thus when we have a new bill that cost so much I think if you are going to have any discussion you need to know how it is being paid for.

I am not posting this along ideology divides although you guys will take it that way...this is now the law....this is money this country needs to come up with and these are the ways, so far, that the country is going to do it.

I would think that perhaps you would want to know or just close your eyes, turn your head and when the end comes just explode. This country has been successful because we debated and discussed and had elections.

If you want to bypass all of that, and allow those in Washington to just stay there and proceed in anyway they want (and this is aimed more at congress, both parties, than the President) they make the wisecracks, ignore what is happening.....just take what you can get from the country and then fall off the cliff.

I apologize for posting this method of paying for this bill. I will delete it.

I was not aware it had been posted because I have even had trouble finding it all. I posted a few hightlights recently and I suppose that nobody cares about how it will be paid.

Sorry for taking up space with the country's financial woes. Better we talk about Palin..that will better solve all our problems

What better suggestions do posters on this forum have for paying for the Affordable Care Act?

repeal it and fix the KNOWN problems of the already working system. (problems and fraud known for years with absolutely no corrective action taken to not offend any voters involved).

Makes sense to replace the known working system with one that NOBODY has any idea how it will work or how much it will cost.

There is a reason why the majority in this country are against the new health care ram job.

btk

Poll Finds 60 Percent of Physician Leaders Support Supreme Court Decision on ACA - US Politics Today


Kaiser Poll: 56% of Americans want the efforts to stop Obamacare to cease - National White House Press | Examiner.com

Mindless!

Absolutely. It was a no-brainer that we need the ACA. :laugh:

That cartoon is so misleading, pandering to populism and typical euphorian thinking...but I am not going to even attempt to explain because euphorians well are euphorians. But here's a hint, we all hate war but sometimes........
And by the way once again the Obama Team has gotten the math wrong but they know it and it is why there are over 20 new or increased tax schemes within this bill to get it underway...a trillion is just scratching the surface.

The big KNOWN problem facing the health care system is 50 million people are uninsured. Waiting for republicans to come out with their plan for insuring these people.

Can hardly call a bill that was debated for 18 months a "health care ram job".

You're right. By believing this you show you have no brain.:laugh:

Will you please advise who debated this bill ????? As I recall it was the Democratic senate and the Democratic house.....we sort of by passed everyone else and it still required the payoffs a few states to get their votes. I only even mention this now as it is law since you use this as some sort of hammer for your party.

You people think that everyone, and YOU IDENTIFY EVERYONE BY PARTY WHEN YOU POST so that must be the line that delineates all Americans in your mine, is against the contents of the bill and that is just a lie on your part because most do not think that at all. HOWEVER as long as the only difference in Americans is by political party as you obviously define all of us, we have a problem.

Those who post on here in opposition are opposed BECAUSE OF THE COST, no matter how much you and your ilk want to define us as really bad people, we are MORE concerned perhaps about this country than you !

It appears that you have to classify and sort people by names.....that is what creates, continues and enlarges the ideological debate in this country and will destroy us. NOBODY opposes what is in it....hope you can someday understand that and stop with the classifications. We have to pay for it and that is of concern for a country that is going broke. Those things you feel are a right of yours are going to go away if we do not solve the fiscal situation facing this country

By weeks end it will be 70 million.

First of all you are not of the opinion that peple who do have insurance don't have skin in the game...are you? Becuae in addition to their preiums, they carry deductibles (individual/family) and coinsurance. also there are a number of procedures, etc that given the monetary limitations of any insurance system cannot be covered. Secondly those 50 million uninsured are not really 50 million unisured that is a poltical number and it includes illegals. Thirdly the assumed 50 million uninsured have always been provided for via taxpayers for years. some of whom rather spend their money n booze and cigarettes, gmbling, etc rather than providing medical care for their familes...and note I said "some"

ObamaCare will attempt to be ll things to all people until the bureacrats finally recognize that this house of cards is folding.

Other viable plans have been in the offing but repeal of ObamaCare is primary.

Those uninsured have been provided for by the hospitals that treat them and subsequently by paying patients that have to subsidize their costs.

I have yet to hear of those viable plans that you mention.

What other laws would you like to see repealed: perhaps the Medicare Act of 1965, or the Social Security Act of 1935, or The Civil Rights Act of 1964, or The Voting Rights Act of 1965? Think of the money that could be saved by repealing all these laws.

:agree:

Huh? Have you been reading the comments? The "Affordable" Care Act is not affordable...that's been one of the concerns by better than 52% of the people polled since before the bill was first past solely by Democrats

Neither is Medicare affordable. Guess that's why Mitt Romney wants to get rid of Medicare as we know it and replace it with a voucher system. Somehow he has to pay for his five trillion dollar proposed tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.

Huh? Your claim is that medicare is also not affordable but yet you continue to support implementation of ObamaCare with according to liberal propaganda, will compassionately cover an additional 50 million people. You don't see that it will cripple our health care system. The complaint is that our health care systm is broken so Obama decideds that the way to fix is is to add millions and million more receipients, and offer them more benefits.

If the health care system were a golf course and ObamaCare a golfer with a 30 handicap. Based on the logic of ObamaCare to improve the golfer's handicap would be to move him from the white tees all the way back to the black tees.

It is more like high 30's of which 12 are illegal. Now you are down to high 20's of which more then 10 mil elect not to purchase from employer.If they had to buy You would see lower cost's. that's a quick step one that would not soak us.
I have a bigger question for those who have the guts to answer.I notice a lot who post do not live here and are still working and post at all hours.Do you do this on your employers time?If so are you not stealing from them?Or do you just feel you are entitled.

Why do you keep repeating this lie? I've posted several times referring people to Romney's plans for Medicare. Go learn instead of repeating Democrap talking points.

Mitt Romney has stated publically that he supports the Paul Ryan Budget. Read the details of that budget which congress has voted for.

I guess I should never be surprised by the party love shown on this board and the lack of any study or investigation into what their party tells them to believe.

Very simply...

Medicare actuaries and trustees say Medicare’s hospital insurance trust fund will be exhausted in 2024 under current law.

To my knowledge the only plan put forth by Obama was in the new healthcare act by cutting BACK "Mr. Obama also wants to slow the growth of Medicare spending. The 2010 law throttles back payments to health care providers, including hospitals, nursing homes and health maintenance organizations. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/us...pagewanted=all

He talks about but has not committed to raising the age from 65 to 67

Now, instead of presenting the Romney plan as you do, but I am sure that is how you were instructed because it IS A SOUNDBITE. You still may not like it but at least you will be accurate...

Last time I looked Romney supports raising the age by one month in ever year.

He also IN 2022 endorses which runs a bit along the Ryan budget suggests "“Traditional fee-for-service Medicare will be offered by the government as an insurance plan, meaning that seniors can purchase that form of coverage if they prefer it. However, if it costs the government more to provide that service than it costs private plans to offer their versions, then the premiums charged by the government will have to be higher, and seniors will have to pay the difference to enroll in the traditional Medicare option.”

“Lower-income seniors will receive more generous support to ensure that they can afford coverage, and wealthier seniors will receive less support.” http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/us...pagewanted=all

I suggest very strongly that you read BOTH proposals and if you are going to engage in any intelligent conversation on health care or anything for that matter, do not post sound bites from the campaign.

If you do not like Ryan budget, then say why...again, not a little sound bite from your parties campaign

Medicare is a HUGE PROBLEM facing this country.....there will be adjustments to it...HAS TO BE thus the discussion is very important

I hope that you will read, study and know what you are talking about in the future if you wish to discuss this or any issue.

PS....I just want to add, that the Ryan budget is certainly not a answer for all our problems but PLEASE READ IT, as I keep reading what Obama proposes. That is the only way to make up your mind. I want nobody else making up my mind. I will do my investigating in detail of both sides first.

Statements like this "Mitt Romney wants to get rid of Medicare as we know it and replace it with a voucher system." are extremely deceiving and misleading

The Dems today Ask not what you can do for your country.But what your country can do for you.

if the loyal supporters of Obama care are so caught up in the need for things like adding 30 or 40 or 50 (or even 70) million more to get coverage and no prior existing condition and keeping kids on insurance until they retire, etc......then why was the alternative of fixing the existing health care system never ever even given the courtesy of being discussed at the time?

It is much better to keep what is known to work and fix what is wrong with it than to dump it out in turn for something NO ONE knows if it will work or what it will cost.

The existing health care system had KNOWN flaws...fraud and cheating. Why were these issue never ever addressed? Because the politicians did not want to risk alienating a potential voting block....just like not fixing illegal immigration.

Do you remember when the budget office was a minority voice cautioning that the costs being used were understated? That disappeared in a hurry. How about the back room deals made personally by Obama to get enough votes to pass the bill?
D you remember when the bill was not moving through fast enough and Obama in his frustration said he didn't care what was in the bill as long as a health care bill got passed? Or do you remember Pelosi while pushing/ramming the bill said let's get this bill passed so we can see what is in it? What ever happened to the promise from Obama to give the American people 72 hours to review what was being proposed? Nothing that what...it did not happen....the usual smiling empty rhetoric.

If you can't relate to any of the above, how about the 2010 election issue that turned the tide for republicans? Of course it was the majority of America stating their displeasure with the health care bill ram job....in the voting booth.

And to answer the question why fixing the existing health care system was not even looked at? Because the promoters would have had to justify incrementally each of the additions they wanted to make. And having to show the costs to add 30, 40, 50 (or even 70) million to the roles they knew would get it blown out of the window.

They knew to show the added costs to keep kids on the insurance or the no prior existing conditions would not have been acceptable.

So I still advocate go back to the plan we have all had for all of our lives.
Fix the fraud and the cheating and the non qualified. Then figure out who they want to add to the health care roles and how much it will cost and then ask the American public if it will be OK to raise their taxes to accommodate the new coverages.

That was not a reasonable proposition because it would have revealed to the American people the horrendous costs that have been smoked over during the push and ram phase by Pelosi/Reid/Obama.

Just a couple simple question for all the supporters who seem to be OK with the new bill (pun intended)......is it OK for your taxes to be raised to what ever level required to make this bill work? Is it OK to cut your existing health care benefits to accommodate the new provisions?
Is it OK to continue with the known fraud, cheating and illegal coverages?

This is not a partisan issue. Can you not see it will be more akin to the plague....it doesn't care what color you are or whether you have an R or D after your name.....YOU WILL BE AFFECTED BY THE UNKNOWN CONTINUED INCREASING COSTS of the new health care law.

Does it not matter?

btk

You make some valid points worthy of discussion. Unfortunately you cannot discuss with anyone who will not learn facts. I have been wrong more in my life than right I think, but at least I try to find out the truth. I do not, nor will I, rely on some political party to educate me on what is going on. These people who come on here with the tweets that they receive or the party line which I suppose they are told they must parrot are allowing someone else to make their decisions.

Does this mean that Obama is always wrong...and Romney always right...NO. Does it mean that Romney is always wrong and Obama is always right...NO. Problem is that you cannot have an adult conversation with people who simply repeat the mantra of their party. We all know our airways will be cluttered with the "message" but this is a forum for discussion and yet people just keep on giving the one line tweets. As in this case, the one liners in noway represent Romney's position or Obama's position.

I have been called a lot of names on here because of my attitude but I come here, believe it or not, to learn. I do not intend to try and change anyone's mind.....but I am hoping that an adult exchange of ideas might illuminate areas where I am misinformed or validate others. I am a big boy....if wrong I will admit it (unfortunately too many times on here)....
but bottom line is you cant discuss it if people insist on being so narrow minded and uninformed.

This is good example. The Ryan budget, complicated as it is, reduced to a one line tweet. A candidate's position which is as complicated, reduced to a misleading and so out of context it is laughable. I often wonder what kind of people are swayed but such simple minded statements ! Both parties do it, so it swings both ways.

Here's Romney's Plan
 

This is Romney's platform on Medicare. As I have pointed out before, it DOES include traditional Medicare as an option. Please point out where Romney said he supported each and every detail of the Ryan budget plan - something you and the Democrap talking have inaccurately said. If you are going to ascribe a position, quote the man on that specific point.

Medicare

Here are three links as requested. If you don't like the sources, google Mitt Romney supports Paul Ryan Budget and thousands of links will appear from which to choose. Never considered ABC News to be a left leaning source. Of course, none of these positions are etched in stone as Romney will probably change his position eight to ten times before the election.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ts-is-a-fraud/



http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-...et-118079.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...ts-crying-foul

Here is a direct quote from the ABC link you referenced: “He’s for the Ryan plan. He believes it goes in the right direction. The governor has also put forward a plan to reduce spending by $500 billion by the year 2016,” said Fehrnstrom. “In fact, he’s put details on the table about how exactly he would achieve that. So to say he doesn’t have a plan to — a plan to restrain government spending is just untrue.”

This makes it perfectly clear that: (1) Romney believes that the Ryan Plan goes in the right direction, (2) Romney has his own, detailed plan to reduce spending and (3) to say that Romney does not have a plan that differs from the Ryan budget is 'just untrue'.

Given this information can you continue to honestly say that Romney supports the Ryan budget without deviation? Can you honestly say, as you have repeatedly, that Romney wants to covert Medicare to a voucher system or are these just Democrap talking points?

Who knows what Mitt Romney believes? As I said above, he changes his positions frequently. He's for the individual mandate, he's against the individual mandate; he's pro-life, he's pro-choice; he's for gay rights, he's agianst gay rights; he's pro-gun control, he's anti-gun control.

We probably won't know where he stands on issues until right before the election, but in the meantime the media is doing a good job of exposing his offshore bank accounts. In the recent issue of Vanity Fair, it is reported that he is sheltering money in Switzerland, Grand Cayman, and Bermuda, and transferred money to his wife's name the day before he was sworn in as governor without reporting it. Don't think the average voter is going to appreciate all these foreign investments from someone who 'loves America'.

The other thing the media is looking into is why he won't release his tax returns. Other candidates have always released tax returns going back to his father in 1968. Romney wouldn't release them when he ran for the senate in 1994, he wouldn't release them when he ran for governor, he didn't release them when he ran for president in 2008. The only time he released them was when he was being vetted for vice-president by John McCain, and after McCain saw them, he dropped Romney like a hot potato. We can only guess why.

The Boston Globe is also investigating about 100 deals that Bain Capital was involved in while Romney was CEO.

:ohdear:

First his investments are in a blind trust.Do you own a 401k?Is it in stocks or mutual fund? Do you know where they invest or have assets?I bet some is off shore.None of what you say as any thing to do with running a country.I could say why are obamas school records all sealed?When Bush ran against gore both of their records were not.It does not matter .What matters is where they each want to take are country.

To quote Jack Nicholson, "You can't handle the truth." You started this discussion on Medicare with the oft repeated lie that Romney wants to turn Medicare into a voucher plan and the other oft repeated lie that Romney supports the Ryan budget down to its finest detail. After being shown evidence that these assertions are both lies, you try to change the subject rather than admit error. If you are actually interested in the truth, you can go to Amazon and download Romney's plan put forth in September 2011. It has not changed.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Believe in America: Mitt Romney's Plan for Jobs and Economic Growth

Before we worry about what Romney has or has not released, why don't we start with what our present President has not released? The Passport he used to travel to Pakistan, his entry applications to Columbia and Harvard, the papers he wrote at both Universities, how he reimbursed Reskow for the property given him, etc?

We can deal with the Democrap talking points one at a time, but trying to hide your error by throwing up a smokescreen of BS is neither honest nor honorable.

Thirty years ago 80% of people paid income tax today 51%.Both party's have bought votes by tax breaks.Time to fix this and not by raising taxes to rich only.

PLEASE Romney, allow them to open the door and use the stuff McCain would not allow once the campaign begins in earnest !