CO Shooting
 

Before this gets all political, let's actually wait for the official investigation to release information on the shooter and not listen to all the talking heads saying the same thing over and over.

Everyone can make guess of who, what, when, where, why and how. But until facts are known or discovered its all a guessing game and talking heads want to keep you glued to their station. Me, I am going to wait until officials give their news conference to get the facts straight and not jump to any conclusions.

The endless chatter of the heads is meaningless with out facts to back up anything that they say.

Let's hope that the gun banners wait until facts are released before jumping to ban all firearms. Let's put the blame where it belongs, on the individual who did this act and not the objects that he used.

Did you put this in political? If so, why?

I only believe in the banning of firearms which have no practical everyday use except to arm militias. Any kind of hunting rifle, shotgun, and self-defensive handgun should have the protection of the 2nd Amendment.

This is an horrible thing to happen. If we could de- stigmatize certain mental illnesses maybe this individual could have received some kind of treatment before he/she went off the deep end. I still see libraries as a localized way to fight off the effects as well as the seeds of these kinds of violent attacks through educating the public about mental illnesses, survivors/victims rights, and the criminal justice system. We just have to some how want to get librarians, the justice system, police, social services, and educators to work together in this.

We know the talking heads have only one objective....to keep the clueless glued to their screen.

One of these days the real culprit in these incidents will be displayed. That is the fact we as a society not only condone but promote violence. Just pay attention to the subject matter of far too many tv programs and almost all movies. It has been going on for years. Parents allow their children to be trained by everything except common sense. The permissive culture denies nobody to promote violence.

Unfortunately because most adults enjoy the violence it is not a priority to eliminate the daily drumming of our young with violence at every turn.

There is no mystery to the behavior of the few who go off the deep end....using tactics learned from tv and movies....what they use to do the job is merely a cop out of the real problem. We certainly would not expect politicians to go against the entertainment business (other wise known as cash support).

btk

The 2d Amendment was not put in the Bill of Rights so that you can hunt or for hand gun self defense. It was placed there so that if a rogue government ever tried to take over, the common citizen would be able to protect themselves from Government.

No matter how many firearms laws are passed, criminals will always find away to get a firearm. Pass laws that affect the criminal, not laws that affect the law abiding citizen. Only those that obey the law to start with will obey any NEW firearm law, they aren't called criminals for obeying the laws and obeying our laws start at the top and work down. Hint, WH, Congress, SCOTUS and the rest of our leaders, local, state and Federal.

Reference Post #3. Question asked, question answered.

Be armed and be trained.

Find that the 1776 idea of a militia is very archaic when compared with realities in 2012. 2nd Amendment Bearing Arms - U.S. Constitution - Findlaw

I would also think that to take down a rogue element of the US government you would need tanks, missiles, and probably nuclear weapons. The weapons of war are so different now from the muskets, swords, tomahawks, clubs, knives, and cannons from the Revolutionary War.

"I would also think that to take down a rogue element of the US government you would need tanks, missiles, and probably nuclear weapons. The weapons of war are so different now from the muskets, swords, tomahawks, clubs, knives, and cannons from the Revolutionary War."

I tried using that same analogy a few months ago when one of the posters said that the private citizen should have the same weapons of the armed forces. The conservative gun nuts ridiculed me. What else would one expect from the gun nuts?

Can you think about what would have happened if this James Holmes-- the alleged Aurora, CO movie theater shooter-- had a few grenades??

James Holmes Identified As 24-Year-Old Suspect In Denver Shootings (PHOTOS, LIVEBLOG)

The Syrians seem to be doing just fine in taking down a "rogue" government who is using tanks, missiles and other modern weapons against ordinary citizens. Arguement above does not hold water.

What makes you think that he could not have gotten hold of a few of them. Anything you want can be bought on the black market if you have enough money. Law abiding citizens will obey the law, criminals will not. Guess that is why they are called criminals.

My guess is that James Holmes is a mentally ill loner who would not work well with others in any way, shape, or form. He was someone driven over the edge by whatever demons he has.

Most criminals I have come in contact with-- I represented a large number of MN prisoners at Minnesota Correctional Facility/Stillwater as a student attorney in their civil matters-- were able to interact with other people in some way.

Most of the mass shooters I remember are gun nuts but also loners who would have some trouble getting guns unless there parents/relatives are also gun nuts.

Do you have a problem with law abiding citizens who own guns? Is that way you use the term GUN NUTS.

And what are the Syrians rebels using?? My guess is they are being armed by other governments interested in toppling the current Syrian regime.

We and others had to arm the Taliban to take on the Soviets in Afghanistan. That really came back and bit us in the....

No I do not. I used to own 4 various guns. But these were used for hunting in the deserts and hills of Nevada. I do not have problems with citizens with guns for self-defense. Not sure why though say a .50 caliber sniper rifle should be in the hands of anyone but a SWAT sniper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82

It's not so much stigmatization of these mental illnesses, but political correctness and misinterpretation of "privacy laws" gone amuck. This was proven with the Virginia Tech killer, and the Ft. Hood killer (I mean "Workplace Violence Doctor"). Countless PhD's at the university, and M.D.'s at teaching-hospital PSYCHIATRY department where Hassan was "teaching" residents knew and warned about these two killers' prior talk and even rants about such macabre events they were savoring in advance.

And here is a 3rd example, about the Tuscon killer, where people knew but apparently did not want to "stigmatize" or "judge" the person:

From February to September 2010, while a student at Pima Community College, Loughner had five contacts with college police for classroom and library disruptions. On September 29, 2010, college police also discovered a YouTube video shot by Loughner, in which his spoken commentary stated that the college was illegal according to the United States Constitution. He described his school as "one of the biggest scams in America". The video led to Loughner being suspended from the school.

The college told Loughner that if he wanted to come back to school, he needed to resolve his code of conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance (indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, that his presence did not constitute a danger to himself or others). On October 4, Loughner and his parents met with campus administrators and Loughner indicated he would withdraw from the college. During Loughner's time at Pima, a teacher and a classmate both said they thought he might commit a school shooting.

Some gun nuts do go nuts. Unfortunately. :grumpy:

LOL......"Gun Nuts" certainly does "Stigmatize" them, doesn't it?

The term "gun nuts" has different connotations that the usual use of the word "nut" to describe someone with a mental illness.

I also still think that if libraries had more materials quickly accessible about mental health resources through their web-sites, there would be less ignorance about people with mental illnesses.

As in the movie and books The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and its sequels, a label of mental illness can you be used as a weapon to silence people who are whistleblowers, critics, troublemakers, and/or victims of someone with powers over them. Part of the ability to use mental illness as a weapon is that so many people still do not understand various mental illnesses.

Some people are cuckoo for cocoa puffs too but not all gun owners are "gun nuts".

One person's "gun nut" is another person's patriot.

the mean message could not be delivered with more sensible terms like gun enthusiasts or gun collectors.

We gun enthusiasts object to the uninformed categorizing of gun owners.

The guy who did the shooting is not a gun nut he is a killer. Not alleged...he killed folks. He would have done something destructive without a gun. Where do you categorize his use of a tear gas bomb. Was he a gas nut as well?

What do you call the suicide bombers? A bomb nut? A vest nut? Of course not they are killers. Just like the guy in CO.

Remember far too many of you approve of the garbage that is being televised and the movies of today. Far too many are way too permissive and not prepared to take steps to bring back core values that exclude detailed and explicit methods of killing a person....a group of people...how to make a bomb....how to report the parents for daring to discipline a child of today.

Guns as usual are not the issue....but it certainly is ALWAYS, ALWAYS presented as though they were.

Our permissive society has contributed to this individuals means to murder far more than the gun!!

btk

I do not see the permissiveness of society having all that much to do with gun violence. This permissiveness usually brings more STDs than acts of violence. Some of these acts are family violence. Domestic violence has been occurring without abatement for centuries in the US. Much of this was done when people were a lot more Puritan in their beliefs and behaviors.

The glamorizing of violence by Hollywood and elsewhere certainly contribute though to these shooters taking up firearms and shooting various people for whatever motivation.

I think you are basically right. Too many violent games, movies etc. could cause it but **** poor parenting might be the root cause.

^^^^^^^^This post bears repeating.

BTW, gun nuts is an inflammatory term, but I think many people (not all for sure) who use the term are referring to the inflexible NRA. I come from a farming, hunting, outdoor family and I own several guns as do all my relatives, but most of us would agree that assault weapons and guns not uselful or necessary in hunting or defending oneself should be controlled or severely limited in access, and the gun show exception should be eliminated.

The big reason the Japanese did not want to invade this country in WWII was because they knew about the well armed American citizens.

:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Hmmmm, maybe that and the lack of logistics.

Oh, but many people DO understand mental illnesses....like the Virginia Tech teacher whose students would not come to class anymore b/c the would-be shooter scared them so much with his bizarre, deathly talk, and like the other attending and resident Medical Doctors at Walter Reed Army Hospital where Hasan was "teaching" psychiatry resident MD's, and presenting at grand rounds with attending psychiatrists.

But their repeated warnings were quietly shut down for fear of claims/outcry of "ethnic discrimination", "racist", or other "breech of privacy" claims naive do-gooders make in order to not "judge" or "stigmatize" such a threatening and sick-minded person.

Are there fact-based studies that support the conclusion that "glamorizing violence...contributes to these shooters taking up firearms and..."? I haven't searched for it yet, but I believe I've seen studies in the past that have concluded that youngsters watching violent movies and playing violent video games does NOT correlate to violence later in life. Yet, because this is a seemingly logical conclusion (glamorizing violence leads to gun violence) few people challenge the assumption that masquerades as fact.

Is it possible that capturing national attention (i.e., the 15 proverbial minutes of fame) is the motivational force for an individual who otherwise feels powerless and who has little to no impact on society?...and that these killers KNOW that a mass shooting is guaranteed to produce that fame than is mowing down pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk in their car?

Just asking....

No one knows right now why the young man decided to shoot up the movie theatre. Of course, he had to be somewhat crazy to do that.

However, he had bought all the guns and ammunition legally according to the police chief. He did not have any criminal or mental issue to deter him from buying the guns or ammo.

The problem is the easy access to buying guns. There also is no reason for a civilian to own an assault rifle like a M-16 that can be converted to full auto very easily. The NRA would probably be in favor of any citizen being able to own .50 caliber machine guns with the arguement that citizens should be armed just like the military in case of the "rogue" government comes marching down Buena Vista Blvd.

Shimpy is historically correct. This fact was admitted to by the Japanese military when the war was over.

The Wrong Problem?
 

We may be looking at Colorado and ignoring the greater problem - gang violence. To put it in perspective, in the city of Chicago on Memorial Day weekend this year eleven people died of gunshot wounds and at least 50 additional were wounded. The precise number of wounded is not known since some, most assuredly, took care of their wounds themselves rather than be involved with authorities. None of the firearms involved were licensed, registered or in any way legal. The Aurora theater massacre killed 13 and wounded approximately 50 others.

The Aurora theater killings were a one-time event. The killings in Chicago and other cities around this nation continue unchecked and unpublicized. There will be at least as many killed by gang violence this weekend as died in Aurora. The difference is that the gang violence will go on 365 days this year and for as long as we can see in the future. One could ask why care about gang violence - they only kill hoods? But, unfortunately, they do much more damage. They kill innocent bystanders, they make violence and drug money enticing to kids and the violence hollows out our cities.

I do not pretend to have the answer, but I do know that restricting law-abiding citizens the right to their arms is not the solution. Talk about semi-automatic or fully automatic simply puts off the question of where does violence occur, whether or not the arms are registered/licensed. etc. There are hundred or perhaps a few hundred killed by legal arms each year. There are thousands killed by illegal arms in the hands of gangs each year both in this country and in Mexico. It is time to stop focusing on the deaths of the people in Colorado and Treyvon Martin; and start focusing on the problem that is killing our cities – gang violence.

If only ONE person had been armed with a concealed weapon maybe it could have saved all these lives. Just sad to think you would even have to go to a movie theater with a gun for self protection. How tragic and what has this country become? We've got MORE and more kids who think they are the characters in the movies they watch. Perhaps too much time in front of tv, computers, ipads, playing and watching violence has contributed to our societys trend toward violence. Parents, turn the dam TV's off, take the computers away, the ipads, etc.. and give your kids some books to read!! Very very sad for the families who lost their loved ones. My prayers go out to each and everyone of them.

Suburban vs. gang violence.
 

High School Massacres: An American Phenomenon - TIME

This article is from 1999 but covers some of the explanations of why these loners feel the need to take their rage out on society. Still wonder what set James Holmes off to start planning such a horrible chain of events.

Gang violence is something very different. What you need their are more community organizers like Barack Obama when he was in Chicago.

I can't find any real answer to that. Lots of speculation online about it. I'm from Missouri. Show me.

I'm inclined to agree with you this time.

Only if the person in a movie theater with a congealed weapon is (1) a very good shot; (2) can shoot another person; and (3) can remain very calm enough to get off a good shot. Except for those with military and/or police training, I doubt if many people could do this.