Civil Marriage
 

I would like to ask you what you believe is the difference between a civil marriage ceremony of two straight people (man and woman) and a civil union ceremony between two gay people? Since both have the same intent then both are marriages, aren't they?

Shouldn't both be afforded the exact same legal rights in the unions?

Leave religion out of the equation. That would be up to an individual church to decide if they will do a religious ceremony for gay couples.

No they are not the same. When you differentiate the two as one being a marriage and the other is something else, then they are different. Either everyone gets a marriage or everyone gets a civil union. Do you expect a wedding proposal to be "will you union me?" When two people love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together they get married not unioned. Any attempt to relegate gay marriages to some other term than marriage gives that relationship a second class status and is IMO insulting. And my opinion has nothing to do with religion and I would not compel religious institutions to perform religious rites if it objects. How do you react to the option to have only the civil authority performs marriages and churches may provide religious unions (but we don't call them marriages). Or how about we let all of the ceremonies whether civil or non-secular whether straight or gay, whether same race or interracial (that was illegal in most of the US until my lifetime) ALL of them be marriages and wish the couple happiness.

You are spot on correct:

Non-supporters are OK with a rich Man and Woman having an elaborate ceremony in a church with the woman wearing all white, BUT ONLY after setting up separate bank accounts and signing a prenuptial agreement for when they divorce. OH YEA, that is OK with God, but not two people in love that want to spend the rest of their life together. If the bible had as many amendments as the constitution, then things would flow better today, but so many hang on to words jotted down thousands of years ago.

Because it's against the Word of God (Bible)

Which God. The United States has dozens of God's Not all have the same rule. I assume you don't expect rules from the king James bible to be the one and only. America is diverse in cultures and religions and all have rules.

The One and Only True God The Father of Jesus Christ who came to earth to save all of mankind from their sins. (you're talking about the false god's) Read the what the Bible says re; homosexuality. Lev.18:22-24 , Lev.20:13, Lev.22:18,24

That's the God of the Old Testament. These laws were probably written by men in the Jewish society around 2000-1500 B.C. Book of Leviticus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is not the God you find in the New Testament except in areas other than the Gospels.

It is hard to determine who wrote what in Holy Bible.

And God love you for your faith and dedication. However, we the people of the United States of America are of different beliefs and our country defends the rights of everyone, and not just the King James VERSION of GOD. If there is one God that has no problem with Homosexuals, then in American they should have the right to GET MARRIED.

You do understand that other faiths believe that your God is a false God just as you do about theirs. It would be nice and simple if you were right, but that is very speculative.

Read in the New Testament' Matt.19:4 and Rom.1:26,27. God does NOT change, He's the same for all time in the Old & New Testament. I challenge you to pray and ask Him about the truth of His Holy Word :-)

The National Organization of Women-- civil union vs. civil marriage
 

Equal Marriage NOW: Civil Marriage v. Civil Unions

Looks like the big problem is which states will recognize the rights and duties of civil marriages against all the states which recognize civil unions.

This Is About Something Else
 

I really do have a discomfort level about discussing this issue but then I have come to realize that is just what the Gay Nation and its supporters are counting on as a form of intimidation. They are also counting on the fact that Americans are compassionate people. I submit one can be both compassionate but not confuse the heart with sound logical thinking. Furthermore a personal disclosure before I begin. My opinion is not based on any religious beliefs.

This continuing debate about marriage/civil unions is a red herring. This debate is really about a small segment of our society demanding that this society legitimize and approve of their sexual preference and hence their lifestyle.

In every cultural since the beginning of time marriage has been defined as a relationship between a man and woman. Further and without any religious overtones but only in a historical context the Bible refers to Adam and Eve and not to Adam and Evan. Further again from a historical viewpoint, meaning that the bible is an accounting of men/women's thinking (via word of mouth) through the centuries condemns men laying with men...an abomination is the wording.

The Gay Nation would mask this issue as a civil rights movement. I disagree. Lawyers are very gifted and I am certain agreements can be struck to ensure same sex partners being afforded rights of surviorship, etc without the need for specific a marriage or civil union ceremony.

Because one disagrees with same sex marriage/civil unions and especially disagrees with their sexual preference doesn't mean they are bigots but count on that tactic to silence opponents. And on a personal note I expect some poster will accuse me of bigotry after I submit this post

The DSM classifies for example a "foot fetish" as abnormal (mental disorder) and also a sexual addiction. Yet in the 1980's homosexuality was striken from this manual with little explanation which usually means because of political pressure.

So adamant are the extremist in this gay movement that young children are being indoctrinated in schools all over the country to see homosexuality as normal and an accepted lifestyle. If these extremist had their way soon they will demand it be viewed as a preferred lifestyle. If you think me wrong pay attention to how Hollywood movies/television is spinning homosexuality these days.

The proponets of same sex marriage can manipulate the data anyway they wish but it will never change the fact that homosexuality constitutes deviate behavior and trying to right it by masking it with a ceremony that symbolizes and has defined mankind since its beginning won't change that fact.

That's nice but God did not just throw The Bible into someone's lap and say "This is the only word of GOD".

There are many writtings that were left out of The Bible because they did not agree with whatever group of priests/politicians who were writing it.

I would pray to God The Father about all this if I were you, It's NOT just the King James version that I'm quoting. :-)

It does NOT matter what the priests and politicians say or wrote or thought , The ONLY truth IS the Word Of God. :-)

As far as I know the only actual words of God in The Bible are the actual words of Jesus Christ. They are usually written in red in the New Testament.

As a Christian, those are the only words that really interest me.

Amen !!!:-) Praying..... "in the last days good will be looked at as evil and evil will be looked at as good", we're living in those days right now, before Jesus returns. Let's keep our eyes on Him.. and Him alone... :-)

Well spoken, I agree w/you 150% !! :-)

Is God another example of American exceptionalism? Allah, Buddha and all the rest are just figments of ignorant foreigners imaginations? :ohdear:

Interestingly, some Buddhists have problems with gay marriage as well as us Christians/Jews/Muslims, etc.

James Shaheen: Gay Marriage: What Would Buddha Do?

Hard to discuss this and not bring God into it but I'll honor your request.

If gays want the same rights and responsibilities as straights in the US, then it would seem that civil marriages are needed for them in almost every state in the US.

This just sounds like something that would be very much in tune with the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution. We are all citizens of the US and should be able to enjoy the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness without fanatics of whatever stripe threatening in any way.

So the OP says leave religion out of it and most posters can't do it. "It has nothing to do with religion" you say but then have to cite Adam and Eve or argue about your particular sky fairy and who made up his myths or wrote his books. This was supposed to be about CIVIL marriage, you can belong to a church that wants to send you to hell for taking a birth control pill or using a condom or ever sinning in your heart if you want to belong. Homosexuality is found in many mammalian species, it was a regular practice in many ancient cultures and is entirely natural. If your god doesn't like it then he should quit creating gay people in his own image. In the meantime, keep your religious holier than thou intolerance of gay people out of the secular legal system . Perhaps you would like to reinstate the legal penalties for sodomy, stoning might be a good choice. Rant done.

Religion does come into it very fast. CEO Chick-Fil-A Cathy's prediction of the US feeling the wrath of God if we continued to allow gay marriages sounds like something Moses would say as he fought with the Pharaoh. Except with this, it ended up with "Let my people eat chicken sandwiches!"

I would like to ask the posters on this forum how does it effect you in any way to have a same sex couple living next door or down the street or on the next block, but I'll have to wait for them to return from church where they are learning to be tolerant of all god's children?

Praying for ALL of you. :-)

There seems to be some fear that us liberals will wind up in hell for advocating for gay rights.

I have never really understood that mentality.

One thing, the priests of old sure were great at manipulating people. Put a little phrase in The Bible here and it negates all of the love and human compassion taught by Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount.

Ask God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit about all these discussions, He will show you the truth...

What does a CIVIL union have to do with the Bible?

Then I take it you also agree with Deut. 22:13-21 or maybe Leviticus 24:16 and how about Leviticus 20:10

And who could disagree with Leviticus 20:09... I see a lot of those on airplanes.

Some of those laws look like they are from at least the Stone Age.

God Bible Gays And Confirmation Bias
 

I did not want to include this in my post but what I found in the original post was "confirmation bias". In the original post posters were admonished not to bring religion into the conversation. I did not and will re-address that issue shortly.

However by virtue of the fact that the original post asked religion not to be included in opinions clearly denotes that references to God's/Bible's word has no validity. Ergo, if you are one of those church going obedient to Ten Commandment types your opinion is flawed, your opinion is dismissed because you believe in fairy tales....or something to that effect.

Recognizing that bias was implanted in the original post my references were from a historical prospective. Regardless of whether you believe in God, Bible, religion, etc the bible certainly can be viewed, once again, from a historical point of view from the people living during those times. Whether in the old testament or new throughout the ages men/women recording events of their time made it clear that homosexuality was frowned upon and found to be of deviate behavior.

I am not inclined to teach my grandchildren that homosexuality is an OK thing when every fiber of my body tells me it is against nature and no one has to even bring God's word into the conversation just simply compare the physical anatomy of man and woman and you can recognize the complementary nature of the sexes Whether that difference was an act of God or an act of nature is a personal choice but that significant and wonderful difference is a fact that cannot be dismissed.

Respectively submitted

EXCELLENT post !!!

Still praying for everyone....

My Oh My. Such intolerance and bigotry.
:cry:

I will pray for the intolerant to find it in their heart to love thy neighbor.
:pray:

Praying for your soul and salvation...

Do the posters on here believe that a civil wedding performed by a judge or a justice of the peace between two straight people (man and woman) is a real marriage or does it have to be performed in a church to be a real marriage?

As far as I know, every state recognizes a civil wedding as a real marriage for all legal rights. This has NOTHING to do with a church.

Why not allow a gay or lesbian couple the same legal rights as a straight couple for civil weddings?

LOL I'll drink to that.

Probably depends on the religion/culture/ethnicity of the people getting married whether or not you need a church wedding.

The US Constitution's Freedom of Religion clause should protect churches from having to perform weddings that do not agree with their various doctrines. There are various churches that perform gay wedding ceremonies.

No bigotry here such religious intolerance...we all should pray to our own gods for salvation.

Speaking of bigotry.

Black couple denied wedding in Mississippi : Multicultural Beat