Rules for who
 

I would like to pose a question for discussion. I need to set the stage for my comments. I have already discussed the facts regarding the double no-pass yellow lines with a sheriff's deputy who states that a driver is never to cross those double yellow lines. Now to my point; suppose you have a street, double center yellow lines, no golf cart lane. Lets suppose we have two bicyclists riding side-by-side in your direction. You need to be aware that traffic laws state a vehicle must clear a bicyclist by no less than four (4) feet.. The problem, there is insufficient room between the double yellow lines and four feet from the two bicycle riders. So, what is the auto driver to do?? Remember, those yellow lines on the Villages streets are continuous end to end. If you don't like to use bicycles, suppose it is a golf cart that you would like to pass....

IMHO, logic would dictate that if you could do so safely, you could cross the lines to clear the bicycle rider. That makes sense to me, because the rider would seem to be vulnerable. Did you pose this scenario to the deputy ?

I believe the law states that bike riders must ride single file whenever possible. In your scenario they are breaking the law. However, whether that gives you the right to break the law (cross the double yellow line to pass them) is doubtful. A deputy observing this should ticket the bike riders AND ticket you for crossing the double yellow line.

rules
 

Yes !!!!
The deputy said it is against the traffic laws to cross the yellow lines under any circumstances and you could be given a ticket for doing so. I agree that if there is no oncoming traffic it only makes sense to pass. Afterall those double yuellow lines are not a concrete wall.

So I guess those riding side by side on bikes are as big a pain in the arse as the people allowing their dogs to poop on lawns. What a bunch of inconsiderate people living in TV. Good thing it is so awesome here are things might get out of hand.

I would believe that the law would mean you can't cross the double yellow to pass a car. Should your left tire cross to avoid a hazard or such a bike, golf cart, a police car that has someone stopped etc you would OK with 99.9% of the police on the road. I'm speaking for NY State V&T Law.

I'd slow to their speed and lightly tap the horn.

I'd continue dong that until they formed single file and I could safely pass.

If I were not obnoxious about it I don't think it would take too many little beeps.

Then I'd make a sincere (full-hand) wave to thank them for sharing the road.


(Boy, that would freak them out)

I should add that it ( passing ) was done safely as to oncoming traffic.

I don't think any LEO is gonna tell you it's OK to cross a double yellow line. After all, it is the law and he is sworn to uphold the law.

However, in the situation you describe, I would certainly cross the yellow lines to clear the bikers. If [and I doubt it would actually happen] I were to get a ticket for crossing the lines, I would just go to court and hope the judge had a bit more common sense than the officer.

Just my thoughts on the subject . . .

Just don't do it in front of a cop and you'll never have to test out the theory!

Florida law says that moving to the left of center in a no passing zone is allowed if such a move is necessary to avoid an object. I wonder if a bike and the 3-foot clearance would constitute such an object?

Take it a step farther. A utility truck is stopped working on wires or gas lines. It is not a busy road so no flagmen. Every time I will proced with much caution crossing double yellow lines, same thing goes with a farm tractor/backhoe. Sometimes common sense is acceptable. I have been driving this way for 48 years and have never recieved a moving traffic violation.

:agree:

Double yellow lines
 

Yes you are absolutely right, speaking from 32 years of law enfocement. just use common sense..............Your honor i ran over the person who fell off the bike because , i could't go around to avoid him,:22yikes: it is against the law to cross the double yellow line .............

I absolutely dread the thought of ever hitting a bicyclist. It's a nightmarish thought.

So why is it that so many bicyclists ride as if they do not dread the thought of getting hit by a truck or car?

Why do most bicyclists here insist on riding in the car lanes in 30-mph traffic, when they could be riding in maximum 20-mph golf cart traffic (diamond lanes) or on multi-modal trails designed specifically for them....for their safety??

It is hazardous!

Amen to that. AND, they are not supposed to be riding two or three abreast when it would be an impediment to the flow of traffic.

I like the slight-tapping-of-the-horn idea. But it will probably not be well received by the cyclists.

We could do a whole thread on motorists vs cyclists that would rival the What My Dog Can Do In Your Yard threads.

I'd like to try to answer these questions.First off there are times when I'm pedaling at speeds that exceed the 20 m.p.h. (19.9 actually) allowed on the multi-modal paths.Also I find drivers of cars to be more attentive to what they're doing.The bottom line is I actually feel safer in the roads plus I have a right to be there. JMHO

I ride with one of the local bike clubs weekly in TV. Most of the quicker groups think that it is safer to ride in the road than on the multi-modal trails. Also, Florida statutes permits riding two across as long as they are not impeding traffic. Many bikers feel that on two lane roads they are not impeding traffic. Also, bikers frequently "take a bold line in the lane" to protect themselves. That is, they ride a few feet from the right line so that cars have to move out of the lane to go around them. Otherwise, there is frequently some jack*** who will try to pass while not crossing the line thus coming within one or two feet of them.

For reference see Florida Statute 316.2065

The answer to this situation depends on the facts. First in every state crossing a double line is a traffic violation. The simplest two sceanrios are to wait until the lines indicate passing is permitted or if the reason a mororist crossed the double line was due to a bona-fide emergfency situation.
The fact is that the common practice along that stretch of highway would prompt a LOE to act in a contrary manner. For instance if the road is experiencing a heavy volume of slow moving vehicles an LOE may act in one matter. Conversely if motorist are abusing the double line then an LOE make act in another matter. Then like the tree falling in the forrest if you didn't witness it it didn't happen. The consequences of crossing the double line also influence an LOE. If a motorist crosses with no consequences the LOE will use judgment in whether to issue a citation. Conversely if the act causes a fatality ,etc then of course you know the LOE is going to issue a citation. Finally in the OP orignial scenario, coming upon bike groups are a common occurrence and a common problem here. The mentality of many viilagers is one of "I paid good money to live here and no one is going to.......You can see this "I paid my money " expression exercised on the cartpaths, roads, town squares, etc. The bottom line is that your choice to pass or not pass should take into consideration the consequences of your act...so don't act implusively and out of anger or impatience. Think before you act...... IMHO the fault for all of this is that the Developer intentionaslly or unintentionally did a poor job of design and should have recognized these conflicts and made appropriate deign measures to ensure the safety and ease of the different modes of traffic but did not do so. I opine and you decide as to what caused this mistake?

Personal Best Regards:

:agree: I would take the ticket in a second if the choice was the ticket or risking someone else's life! It doesn't matter to me in the senerio you laid out with the bike riders if they are right or if I'm right. I'm going to do the common sense thing and take the path that is the safest even if I get a ticket

That's not only the common sense thing to do; it's the mature thing to do!

Also, the mature thing to do is not ride two abreast when it will impede traffic flow, which was the case in the OP. that's also the law, as pointed out by a previous poster.

What is all this about? Seems that no one looks at the traffic control devices here in Florida. Do any of you know what a STOP sign is for? How about a YIELD sign, how about traffic lights. I never realized but TURN SIGNALS are an option on cars sold in Florida.

rules.
 

Let's get away from the bicycle riders riding side by side. Let us suppose it is a golf cart. Remember there is no designated golf cart lane.

clekr -

if you are riding two abreast and NOT leaving room for a car to pass without violating the law and crossing a double line/avoiding the biker by 4 ft - are you impeding traffic?

Yes. Two abreast is okay if you're going the normal speed, but that would be some really speedy cycling.

s. 316.2065 – Bicycle Regulations

(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

Why should bicycles going 20 mph be allowed to hold up traffic on a 30-mph street??? I see this often, when a bicyclist is going along far slower than the car speed limit, and nobody can pass the bicyclist because of oncoming traffic (and to pass, one has to cross the center line, double yellow or not!).

I think it is ridiculous, for example, to be driving the car up Canal Street, and a bicycle is in the car lanes going, let's say, 21 mph......and all the cars have to slow down and get backed up behind the bicyclist because they cannot pass due to oncoming traffic, and the bicyclist refuses to use the diamond lane to give the cars room to pass!

That is like giving the big middle finger to all the cars behind him/her!

I wouldn't do that on the roads with the diamond lanes.I thought you all were talking about Morse,Buena Vist,466, 466a the roads that don't have any designated lanes for multimodal use.If I'm on Canal or streets like it I use the diamond lanes except when I'm passing .Sorry for the misunderstanding.

You think WE have it bad with cyclists impeding traffic? According to The New York Times, hundreds of skateboarders skated down Broadway from the Upper West Side to the Financial District, in defiance of a court order banning an annual skateboard race!

Can you say TRAFFIC SNARL?!

I'd slow to a stop and now they must single file to get by me! I would stay within the lines while doing so.

the only roads like that I've seen in the villages have a 15 or 20 mph limit.

Personally, I suspect it all comes down to manners, but where I agree with the comment regarding some villager mentality, I consider it a bit unfair to point a finger at the developer for erring. We all know "Murphy's law", but ...
Murphy's Second Corollary
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
In addition:
"If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which something can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop. "

It's always easy to monday morning quarterback the "oopsies" but for my money (which I hope to be spending in the very near future to be a frog), I give a whole lot of credit to the developer(s) for what is an extremely complex undertaking.
That being said, going back to the original topic, if it did come to pass, I'd go to court to argue the logic with the judge.

We are all inconsiderate folks at some point. No one is perfect. Can't we all have a little patience for others. If this bickering continues throughout TV then this is not the friendliest hometown.

Well, you slow down and follow them.

I don't ride a bike but that is what I would hope you would do since you do not wish to break the law and go around them.

Seems like grown ups would see that if nothing was coming they would go around them and hope the sheriff if he spotted you doing that would be equally grown up.

(2) Where signs or markings are in place to define a no-passing zone as set forth in subsection (1), no driver shall at any time drive on the left side of the roadway with such no-passing zone or on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark such no-passing zone throughout its length.
(3)This section does not apply when an obstruction exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the highway, nor to the driver of a vehicle turning left into or from an alley, private road or driveway.

Don't assume that everyone in TV reads TOTV postings.

There is the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. No Deputy worth his salt will ticket you, unless you cause or are involved in an accident, unless you get mouthy, then all bets are off.

... or in the process of passing the persons on the bikes, you speed while a police car is present (not a smart thing to do). Remember that except where streets are specifically marked different, the speed limit in The Villages is 20 mph.

The Police Officer says you cannot ever cross a double yellow line? What about making a left hand turn?