Championship Courses, nickle & diming of Players
 

Played Lopez on Monday. I knew the green fees had gone up $1/round, however, was surprised when told that the small warm up baskets are now costing $2. The $2 now buys you 18 golf balls rather than 12 in the past.
I might be able to understand the green fees increase (more profit) but the change in the warm up basket is just not right.........what possible cost increase could have happened to justify the increase?
I have sent an email to golf course Administration Department.

We are forgetting one thing here. We are in TV and in many cases it is similar to the ole proverbial saying...why does a dog lick em? Because he can! Lol. Why do they raise the prices of homes higher than inflation, demand, costs, or raise other prices at courses, stores, fees? Because they can!
But, we still can't fault them, if we don't like it, go somewhere else or don't participate in it. As I say, others should start what the Morses did than they can do what they like too. They took the chance and built a great place to enjoy. Who ever said it would come cheap?

warmup basket.
 

Never heard of warm up balls before. I'd pay the buck for 12 balls.
I hate to leave good shots on the practice range.

Can two guys share the 18 balls? I would do that...

Just thought I would throw this in for fun. Yes I know about warm up balls prior to playing, and chances are ya did use up your best shots than! Lol can do the the same by just swinging a club with a weight. I used to be very good and gave pointers as i worked part time at a golf store, and played in many tournaments, but I never take it seriously now. It is a hoot to watch these young 250 lbs muscle men walk up to a drive and swing so hard they could start a propeller. Than it goes maybe 250 yards at best and they beat their chest. :) I have seen females including my 5'4 115 lb niece walk up to a shot swing easy and consistent and hit it about 240.
On the course too many people watch the pros. I laugh and say after some one takes two of their best swings prior to hitting the ball, ya wasted those. Just like looking at a mark while behind a ball for aim. Most don't know why but looks good! After their practice swings, they metamorphis into this hulk where their veins are popping out of their forehead and it doesn't look anything like their practice. Try to walk up to the shot, address the ball, and swing like a easy going practice. you will play much better.
Let me know if you tried it...

Where's the fun in that??!!?? Like Lee Trevino once said...swing hard! You never know when you might hit it!! :thumbup: :D

We all ae entitled to our opinion which in fact the vlue of an opinion =0.

However, on the one hand I understand that business people will charge what the traffic will bear. However on the other hand it would seem to me that there is a somewhat altered relationship between the owner of the championship courses and residents. But the reality is residents are viewed as a captive group.

For those who have lived here for sometime going off campus from October through May is an enjoyable ritual where they are finding reasonable priced and quality golf courses that offer additional amenities

Golf in the Villages
 

I agree with the thoughts of the first posting. The Villages and the residents have a unique relationship and simply going elsewhere is not a reasonable souution to being goughed by pricing. Without the Residents there would be no Villages and without the Developer there would be no Villages. So in a sense both depend on each other. Now to my main point; Three years ago I did a survey during the month of March. The survey was to determine the prevailing green fees within a 25 mile radius. I accumulated the green fees from 23 local golf courses and found it outragous that except for Orange Blossom, the top six with the highest green fees were the Villages Championship courses. The comparison green fees were based on the "Resident" fees in the Villages. I might toss in the fact that the "outside" green fees included a golf cart whereby in the Villages needing a golf cart will cost extra. In most cases the Villages green fees and Priority fees have gone up three fold in the past 15 years. Why should a Villager be taken advantage of simply because he enjoys driving his personal golf cart to the courses. ??? Harold Schwartz where are you when we need you ?????????

after Washington D.C. area for 20 years, I still think the prices here are a steal. The quality of these courses for less than 200 dollars a round is a great deal for my taste.
:BigApplause:

Oh MY.
 

This post and thread is so unlike your usual ones that I HAVE to take it seriously.

I wonder myself why this has happened and just at the start of the season.

Please let us know what you hear back.

What is a shame
 

All of these nice convenient courses and LOTS of Villagers play off-campus to avoid the high cost...

I did receive a reply to my email to Golf Administration.
Although I don't totally agree with them............they did respond and I respect that. And they did get some feedback.
FYI


Thanks for taking the time to share your concern and allowing us to respond. Just wanted to share a couple facts with you. Our last increase to range fees was in 2006, and an increase was needed to cover increasing operational cost. We discussed our the options at length and decided to increase the individual token cost, and leave the range cards/packages status quo for the time being, therefore the avid practicer would not be affected. With the increase in the token price, we had to address the warm-up bucket, and we felt this was the best option available to us.



We respect your opinion, and while you may not agree, hopefully this will give you some additional information to consider.



Best Regards…Erik

High Cost when bumped against other courses in this area yes..... However, high cost when compared to other areas with the same amenities, no.....
I have played in Wash D.C. and Atlanta for the past 30 years and trust me, golf here with the country club environment for the cost is CHEAP, INEXPENSIVE, LOW COST AND A STEAL. If all prices for the championship courses DOUBLED, I would still be very happy with the cost of play in The Villages. If they want to give it to us for $5.00 a round, I am OK with that, but really, $50.00 dollars for a championship quality course and 18 holes, You find that high. Where are you from?

Just as an FYI - I play with 2 members of a semi-private club in So. Fl.
Right now, today in fact, I payed $75.00 for a round as a member-guest.

A bucket of balls - about 30-35 is $8.00.

Don't forget the value of the transportation time and fuel cost to the off campus courses.

Very good point IDM. I have played the Continental Country Club course south of 44 and it is only about 25 or 30 dollars and that includes the first beer and a hot dog at the end, but it is not a country club like ours in The Villages. I enjoy the course and the cost is unbelievable. Yet, it is not as nice of a day as going to Palmer or any course in The villages in your cart, food and drink at the 19th hole and back home without a car. For me, this is the best you can get.

Thanks for the information. I guess I better make sure I update my range card before they hike that :(. I liked the $1 for 12 balls to hit before a round. It is just the right amount of golf shots to see what hurts and which way the ball is going that day. At $2 for 18 I might as well spend $3 for a bucket of 48 and share or sell :D....

Oh well.... thanks for taking the time to post the details.

When you consider the heavy investment residents have concerning their golf carts and that the cost of playing golf off campus includes a golf cart then you understand that the championship courses here are even more expensive than what an earlier poster shared with his 3 years study.

I shared in an earlier post with another poster that it would seem there would be more reasonable rates for reidents since they made a huge investment in this community
As to another posters mention of the cost of travel to off campus site bear i mind most guys carpool reducing the expense....and I;ll bet they off campus players still come out ahead.

for those who are use to paying higher golf fees a resident new to TV comment that for the prices he is paying he was use to thicker turf, an employee load his clubs on the cart, etc.

the courses here get heavy play and it shows.

I know the topic is championship courses, but for somebody who has not yet moved to TV, can you give an idea of costs for lesser courses, executive courses, etc.?

Exec courses are free if you walk. About $145/year for trail fee if you use your cart.

Thanks! And I found the fall/winter rate listings for the championship courses (seem reasonable to me), but what about summer rates for championship courses?

Executive courses are free and we have 30 of them...

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OK lets discuss summer rates for championship courses. I will start with how about $6 after 5 pm with Tee time reservation for all the holes you can play. This year was a 20% increase over previous years ($5) which is well beyond the rate of inflation. Maybe someone is complaining... BUT I dont think so! GREAT DEAL even for the non-serious golfer!

Golf Costs
 

I have heard this comment many times. This is not Pebble beach or any other far away location. You simply cannot compare courses thousands of miles away that only have a 6 month season. This is The Villages in central Florida where golf is played 12 months yearly. The point is that of many local "outside" golf courses, why are six of the Village courses the most expensive of all the nearby local courses ?????. I have also heard the additional cost in green fees, is because the Villages courses are in so much better condition. If you believe this, then you don't play outside the Villages. Stonecrest and Spruce Creek are usually in superior condition as compared to the Villages courses.

I can't wait to hear the whining about the chocolate candy bars in the Championship course's starter shacks increasing from $1 to $1.50 effective this past Saturday.Ready, set, go!!!

All I can say is WOOT!! Now that's what I'm talkin' about! That's when I play most of my golf! :^)

They aren't free nothing in the Villages is free. You have your monthly fees along with your likely trail fee.

Golf
 

This only applies to we Villagers, If you live in the community where the outside courses are located your transportation time and fuel costs are no more than ours to play in the Villages, but, their green fees are still much less that the Villages courses..

The outside courses do not have cart access from my garage.
They do not have 19th hole choices like The Villages.
The convenience of The Villages courses is invaluable to me.

The truth is, I just simply would not load my clubs into my car, drive to a course, unload my clubs and carry them to a cart, unload my clubs from a cart and load them into my car, unload them from my car, clean the dirt and grass out of my car and then sit down for lunch. And all that to save $20.00 dollars. I am more sensitive to my convenience than to a 20 dollar bill. I moved to The Villages for retirement, not a part time job as a bag boy.

So: if it is all about money, go outside. If its all about convenience, play here. But, please don't complain that $50.00 is too much to pay for a round of golf. And, I want everything in The Villages to be higher to insure it remains the best retirement place we could find.

sounds about right to me:thumbup:

If there's no cost in addition to the amenities fee, then it's free as far as I'm concerned. And the trail fee is optional, so it's still free to me. :^)

I believe golf in TV is still a great bargain. I also still live in Northern VA (not for long I hope) and belong to a private club here. They just increased the dues by $125 a month, a special assessment of $1500, and doubled the capital improvement fund from $25 to $50 a month. Also the annual range fee price went up by 40% (no choice, you have to join this). I have to pay more in a month for golf then I will pay for a year in TV.

When confronted with this at a members meeting they brought out the cost increases they faced. Gas has doubled in the last 4 years, the cost of fertilizer, equipment, food, electric, golf carts, labor, insurance, all have gone up 10% to 60% in the past 12 months. This is a not for profit club, so those costs are passed on to the members. They even showed us where they have cut costs to limit the increases.

Even at home, every bill I open has gone up significantly. Insurance, car and home, gas, electric, water, fuel oil, food, maintenance contracts, and every other bill I get. Not a single one has gone down. My LTC insurance just increased 45%. In the past year my cost of living has gone up over 10%. Now I know the government reported inflation rate is much lower, but that is not my personal experience.

TV courses are faced with these same cost increases and if they want to stay in business they will pass those costs on to the customers.

We are facing a very high inflation rate that will hit us all over the next several years and all the costs we see have already or will go up. I believe this range ball increase the candy bar increase, are just the first of many you will see. The world economy is in trouble and we are seeing that results.

Most courses I play "up north" have signs that say "NO COOLERS". Not so in TV. No more spending $3.00 each for a beer from the course beer cart. That's got to be worth something.

Here's a thought skip the golf and go right to the 19th hole.:BigApplause:

The Ex's courses are not free if your handicap and can't walk. You have to pay the cart path fee as your unable to walk so you don't golf for free for life.

Many moved here to be able to play golf daily and the rates were enticing. It is why so many came. While you may feel inclined to pay double, most would find that difficult. Hopefully TV execs don't find your post a call to increase rates because the market might bear higher fees. They do seem to be raising the cost on housing and lots.

True. Annual cart fee for household is approx $145. RA sleeve, $5 per year. So for a total of about $150 per year above the amenities fee (required of all) you can play as many rounds of executive golf as you can book. So, if you and spouse played twice a week every week, your total cost per round comes out to less than $0.75. If you're seasonal residents, it comes out to a little more than that. Not free, but darn close.

I guess I consider it free if I don't have to dig out cash or credit card whenever I play and I don't get a monthly bill from the club with mandatory food minimums and other charges.

Executive Course golf is free as far as it is included as part of your amenity fees paid. Yes you do have to pay for a golf cart trail fee if you decide to use or need that feature...but if you want to start breaking down the cost of everything you also need clubs, balls, gas or electric to get to the course etc...sorry but Golf (by itself) on an Executive Course in TV is considered by most as being free.

That place is not the real world by no means. Apples & oranges! No comparison .

When we were discussing course conditions, there were comments about the amount of play TV courses get, especially in the high season, compared to some of the outside courses. Perhaps that contributes to higher maintenance costs which leads to higher fees. I remember reading that the championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Since we are not captive to the clubs for food/beverage, clothing and equipment and since there are no outside tournaments booked here, perhaps those other sources of income help keep costs at other courses down. :shrug:

In SoCal, an executive course like most of the ones here would cost at least $30 to play, plus a cart. Last I checked, despite it being the land of fruits and nuts, CA was part of the real world. OK, maybe that's debatable.

I am with you on this. We have lived in Germany, Wash D.C., Virginia, St Simon s, GA and Atlanta, Ga before The Villages. I am sure if you lived in Bumpus Mills Tenn, the golf would be less expensive, but for a retirement community with the amenities of this one, I am grateful for the prices we have.