Looking for New car dealership that doesn't play "the game"!
 

Has anyone found a car dealership that doesn't play "the game"? When I'm ready to buy a new car I hate to be treated like an idiot. I recently found a car I liked. Instead of getting a straight answer about price, the salesman had to "talk with my manager" and the "game begins"! The manager comes with a "deal you can't refuse". I did refuse and built the same car online for much less than my "deal" I was quoted!

I don't know if this bothers anyone else but it just rubs me wrong! Price the darn things at prices where you make the profit you want and tell me what it is! I can then take it or leave it!

I sold new and used cars for a while. Here is how I shop for cars knowing what is going on in the managers office first hand. I go to the dealership and find the car on the lot that I want to buy. I write down all the retail costs of the base price and options noting the delivery cost (which is not discounted). Then I go to a site like kbb.com and find out what the dealer cost is and what the fair price is for THAT car in my area. With that knowledge in hand I go to the dealer around the end of the month (more likely to take offers because the dealer is rewarded by the car company on sales by the month and year) and "steer" the sales person to that car. I test drive it etc. When it comes to price negotiation I know what the fair price should be and I stick to it. If they will not sell at the price I want I get up to leave. You will be amazed at how often they will then accept your fair offer. It used to be that a dealer would take as little as $100 over dealer cost but now it seems they want more.

I can't answer your question, but it reminded me of a time years ago, when we went to a dealership to look at used cars for my son. I told the salesperson what I wanted, in general, and that I would pay a maximum of $5000. He took us to a Toyota corolla and asked my son if he would like to drive it? I asked how much they were asking for it and he said the asking price was $7500. I said "either you weren't listening to me, or your prices are so ridiculously inflated that you could sell a car for 2/3 what you are asking; either way I don't want to do business with you". We got in my car, went across the street to a Saturn dealer who had no-haggle pricing policy and bought a used Buick Skyhawk within minutes. Some of these car sales operations don't deserve to stay in business.

Thanks Mikev. With your knowledge how do I determine fair price to offer? $100 over invoice doesn't seem like a lot but what do I know?

Great info, Mike. I have copied your post and will save it for reference when I am ready to shop.

Thanks to you too, Wendy, for posting the question.

New Car
 

My thanks too - We just went through the exact same thing, Wendy. We drive a perfectly good car, but had the "urge" to get a new car. Went to Ocala to the dealership we were interested in and found a car we liked, then the game began. I finally told the slick willy trying to get my other half to buy, that we were done, tell me the price or let me out of here - at that point we realized they had the keys to our car because they wanted to test drive it. I had a hell of a time getting them to turn over the keys so that we could leave.

We are from the North East. When we needed a new car, my other half would drive the Auto Mile and leave a card with each dealership showing make and name of car required and price prepared to pay, and call me when you have the car. We bought all our cars that way until we came here. I guess the moral of the story is to go back north to buy our next car. What a pain!

Very much agree with the EOM scenario. All salespeople and the dealership themselves have monthly sales budgets to meet and they are more likely to make a deal than at other times of the month. However, please note that Mike talks about making a "FAIR" offer. He's absolutely right. Do your homework on sites like KBB or Cars.com and be prepared to indeed give a "FAIR" offer. The dealer wants to make as much money as he can, and I cannot blame them for that. They are not engaged in a hobby they are there to make a profit. You want to pay as little as possible. But if you go in with unrealistic ideas about what to pay, then you are never going to make a deal because there's a point where the dealer cannot do business with you, because there's no money in it for them. And at that point, why should they?

Make your decision this way using my 8 step process. You will need to test drive to complete step one, but always just say your not sure and want to check out a few more first.

1. Decide on the make and model you want
2. Determine all the options you want and are willing to pay for.
3. Identify 3 near by dealers that sell that model.
4. Go to kbb.com and edmunds.com and determine dealer cost for that exact vehicle.
5. If you have a trade, either sell it first or get a written offer from Carmax.
6. Go online and send to those dealership internet sales person exactly what your looking to buy. Provide your name and number. Do this step around the 25th of the month.
7. Wait until the next to last day of the month before going to the dealership that provided the best internet price.
8. ALWAYS ask for the out the door price. If you don't they will start doing add on's once you agree to a price. If your going to trade in your current vehicle, make sure you get more then the Carmax offer or sell it to them. Give the dealer a fair profit, usually around 1%, maybe 1.5%, 2% for some Luxury models. This % includes any dealer prep fee, paper work charge or other extras.

Thanks to the posters for all GREAT information given here. Tried KBB.com and was more than impressed. This will keep the other half busy for a couple of days!

If you're in the market for a Honda and don't like the haggling aspect of buying new, you might check into Classic Honda or Holler Honda, both in Orlando:

Classic Honda

Holler Honda

Here's a list of how they do things (same found on Holler's web site as well):

Our 10 Buy Smart Be Happy Promises | Classic Honda

I've never done business with either place and have no connection with either dealership. But I've seen their commercials and it does sound like they're "no haggle" dealerships.

Also, if Scion offers anything that floats your boat, all their dealerships are no-haggle/one-price dealerships. You pay sticker price plus tax, title, and doc fees. Scion vehicles are sold via the Toyota dealerships.

Lastly, in addition to the good info noted by MikeV, do some research and find out if there are any customer rebates or financial deals available at the time you're looking to buy. There are also instances where factory-to-dealer incentives are going on. Dealers will tell you those are dollars that don't go directly to the consumer (which is true) - but you CAN use them as a bargaining chip in your discussions with the dealer regarding the ultimate purchase price of the car.

Bill :)

Scion is no-haggle and their vehicles are among the most reliable on the road. I had heard that the Scion XB has tons of room inside for cargo (with the back seats down) and for my large self. On a whim, I tried one. I even fit comfortably in the back seat, with the front seat back all the way. Great little car.

Since 1995 we have purchased our cars through the Costco program or thru Edmunds.com. Get the price on line or thru Costco, go to the dealership and pick up the car. My father was a New York Italian and haggling was in his blood. He loved the car deal game. I have no patience for it. I dont know if we get the best rockbottom price, but my stress level is much lower and we keep our cars long emough to get our money's worth.

I think all replies are excellent and thank you to all. The only other thing I thought to add was this... When I go to a dealer and the sales person asks if they can help me, I tell them I am interested in buying a car. I test drive the car I'm interested in and once I decide it is a candidate for my garage, I look at my watch and then say to the salesperson he has 30 minutes to sell me a car at a price mutually agreeable to both of us. I tell them if we don't come to an agreement in that 30 minutes, I will leave. They usually think I'm being bitchy and if I get any attitude, I let them know I want to buy a car and it doesn't matter to me who I buy it from, I just want "my" price (which I already know is a fair price because I've done my homework). If they start with the "have to talk to my manager" routine, I make a point of looking at my watch and remind them the clock is ticking and they have X minutes left. I'm always nice, but firm. It's amazing how much time is saved when they understand you will walk away. And, yes, I have walked after the 30 minutes. They didn't realize I was serious. I have had sales people follow me to my car asking me to reconsider because they realized they messed up but I never do. This also allows you to see how much they want to sell a car based on the price they come back to you. If they aren't serious about selling then you can leave and save lots of time and hassle. Good luck!

If you want no haggle when buying a car go to the web site, Truecar.com...I bought my car with the Information they supplied there.my honda accord listed around 28 something and I was able to get it from the dealer for about 24 .....the site gives you everything you need to know to get your car withouy going to dealer till you are ready to buy. Any brand or model ,they have all the info and it does not cost a dime.

Take Control...Make an Offer
 

The last time I bought a new car, I made an offer, after research, and told the dealers that their response needed to be 'yes' or 'no.' After walking out of two dealers without them accepting my offer, I knew I was close to the bottom price they would accept.

We really like our '08 xB as well!! :wave:

Bill :)

Whatever you do, dont even set foot in the door at Key Scales Ford.

This has been a great thread - thanks to all!

you will gain leverage as soon as it is recognized you will in fact get up and leave....most do not because the need to buy the new car is stronger than the the need to walk away....and the dealers thrive on that very human characteristic.

btk

Am I the only person who likes buying a car like you're haggling in Morocco?

All thr advice here is spot on re: knowing what the dealer paid for the car. Remember - invoice price doesn't factor in give-backs at the end of the quarter or month. Also, the dealer markup on dealer installed options is huge.

On the downside is that hot models offer you very little leverage. A model where stock is limited means closer to list or even above list. Welcome to capitalism.

But, if you choose a model where stock is plentiful and you wait until near the end of the month, get ready for the most fun you can have with your pants on.

Before you go in - research the actual dealer cost after givebacks. Add a couple hundred for fair profit - unless you're like me and enjoy the sight of blood.

First - don't trade in where you buy. These are separate negotiations and you have to be very good at multitasking to handle both at the same time because most dealer will make up a low-ball price on your purchase by nailing you on the trade-in. Sell it private or go to a place like Car Max -- after you fixed all obvious issues plus had your car detailed.

Back to buying fun. Negotiate a good price ... not your price ... but, a starting point. Start filling out the paperwork. Let this linger. Talk a lot. Slow the salesman down. Let him mentally count the pennies of his commission. Mentally - he's already spent it. Become a pal..a chatty one.

Sign and sign and when you get to the bottom start to hesitate. Think. Look distressed. Ask again, what is the out the door price. Moan and mumble you just can't do it....the salesman will call the sales manager. Repeat the act....don't forget being chatty and drop little treats like how convenient it would be to have the auto serviced at their facility and how you have friends also looking for a car.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Just do it with a soft voice and a smile. Don't get up and say this is a take it or leave it. Instead, take their time with funny stories that go on and on and on.

Enjoy the dangling carcass of their diminishing profit. Remember, it's more than just getting a good deal....it's the love of the game.

Cheers!

G

It is fun....
 

I too enjoy the whole process and I stress as you wrote, negotiation is done in a friendly manner. I have never done the whole signing hold out though, I got a kick out of that....

Never negotiate off the sticker (use the invoice) and never negotiate based on monthly payments, that is just confusing the matter at hand. I personally never buy a car on my first visit. You will be asked what can we do to put you in the car today, you need to be prepared. Know what they can sell the car for and offer less. This is also a good way to start to learn their real number.....

One point you made that I agree with is the popularity of a car matters. The best example of this in my life was when I bought my 2000 Nissan Altima. It had good write ups in the consumers papers, but was not popular when compared to the Accord or Camry. Due to this Nissan was having a $2000 factory to dealer kick back, which now puts my price at invoice - $2000 - <whatever else you can get>. The dealer will make you think that it is the sticker price - $2000... never use the sticker as a reference.

I was also shocked at the different cost from dealer to dealer at that moment in time that year. I could get that same car for invoice - $2000 + $100 at a dealer in N. Attleboro, MA. After knowing I could get the car for around invoice minus $2000, I ended up buying the same car for invoice minus $2000 minus $1200 from a large dealer in Quincy. It was the only car I ever bought where I sat with the sales person, he went through the cost line item by line item with invoice minus $2000 minus dealer holdback minus dealer incentive minus some other thing and I had nothing to say :shocked: but sign me up.

On the other hand I am less comfortable negotiating a used car price. I always feel like the dealer has the upper hand knowing the exact costs. I find it more difficult to find their bottom number. As you said, it is not all about the money, it is the game....

BTW, That Nissan still goes up Rt 128 like the day I bought it with just a few more creeks and bumps :clap2:

PS. My poor wife hates the game, but luckily loves me and I think deep down enjoys watching the game.

You buy a car maybe every five years or so --- the saleman does this every day ---- they also read forums about "how to buy a new car" The one place i have found with no bargining is What is the FitzWay?
when i bought my last car thats where i went and was happy with the way of doing busniss = no haggle thats the price
Fitzgerald Auto Malls New and Used Car Dealership Maryland - Pennsylvania - Florida - Washington DC - Virginia

Also, if Scion offers anything that floats your boat, all their dealerships are no-haggle/one-price dealerships. You pay sticker price plus tax, title, and doc fees. Scion vehicles are sold via the Toyota dealerships.

Good point Bill...

We went to a Toyota dealership in Colorado to buy the wife a new Corolla. After working the deal and the salesmen going back and forth with "his manager" we decided to take a test drive in a shinny new Scion SC that caught our eye. My wife loved it. It was listed for less then the best deal we were about to get on the corolla and had more equipment, and it had a "cool factor". Needless to say the salesman wasn't happy with us and his displeasure was obvious. We bought the SC and have been totally happy with it. It will be a great addition to our golf cart once we move to TV permanently. Come on August!

:coolsmiley:

One other item..but it only works if you regularly buy the same brand of car and if you trade yours in every few years. Find a dealer & a salesman at the dealership that you like and stick with them. Most dealers will give you a better deal if you are a returning customer and have made use of their service department as well.

Also most dealerships have a service policy that puts their customers first in line. So if for example you go to Orlando or Tampa to purchase a car because you think you can get a better price from a larger dealer, and then want to bring your car to the local dealer for service, your needs won't be given the same urgency as they will give customers who bought their cars there in the first place.

That policy doesn't hold if you're travelling and break down on the road, but if you live locally and buy out of the area, they know it, and you will get bumped to the end of the line.

Thanks for the good advice! Still not sure where to find the invoice price and how much to offer over invoice to be a fair offer.

If I want a Ford, where to go other than Key Scales!

Thanks

Wendy, you can use Edmunds.com - search for a specific brand then the model. It will show you invoice price as well as letting you look up any incentives currently in effect.

What to offer the dealer? No fixed answer as it can be affected by things such as factory-to-dealer incentives, for example - also by how the dealer chooses to run their business (many cars sold for small profit per transaction, or lesser number of cars sold with higher margins per transaction). You can always start low and come up - never the other way around! :-)

With some dealers, they'll offer you their "best price" via working with them on the internet. It never hurts to challenge what they tell you is their best price, though!!

Bill :)

Thanks Bill!

You're welcome!

Bill :wave:

I wanted a 2013 Hyundai Veloster 201 HP Turbo in white or silver and I needed automatic for my wife. This was a brand new version of the car, previous Velosters were underpowered at 130 HP. I found out online that the first shipment of 725 Turbos arrived last August. In September I read online that some dealers had started receiving the cars but usually only one per dealership and some dealers were asking $1000 over list price.

The 2013 Veloster Turbo automatic has a list price of $23,925. I went on KBB and looked up the fair selling price and that was $22,619. Then I searched everyday for two weeks on autotrader.com and cars.com within 100 miles for dealers with Turbos in stock. Finally on October 10th about ten Turbos showed up in central Florida but only two were automatic and both were silver. Red Hoagland Hyundai in Winter Haven had one and he had very good customer feedback. The other Turbo was in the same area at a Lakeland Hyundai dealer, but they had terrible customer feedback.

I saw the car on Red Hoagland's website and called their online number and the salesman said the car was available, he even took the phone outside and asked if I had any questions about the car as he was looking at it. I told him don't sell the car, I would be there in about two hours. On KBB I had priced my trade-in at $16,600. Two hours later I arrived at the dealership in Winter Haven, took a test drive. I told the salesman that I would pay $22,600 for the car and I wanted $16,600 for my trade. The salesman left the room for about one minute and returned to say, 'we have a deal'. Red Hoagland is a great dealership, unfortunately they are about 80 miles away down Hwy 27 near Legoland.


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....r-turbo-fd.jpg

All great information!!! And so true... I spent 26 years in the car industry I am only going to add one more thing... If any of you who are out there car shopping have USAA insurance... And many do... Check to see if there is an "ADDITIONAL" rebate on the make and model you are looking at.. You can contact USAA they should let you know.. DO NOT ask the sales person they will more then likely not know and will just tell you no...The rebate is from USAA.. Some domestic dealers have it.. also the foreign brands MB.. And I do mean additional..rebate. if there is one from the manufacturer it can usually be combined....Good luck!!

buy a car
 

tell a new car dealer to lose the dealer pack...the car was detailed by the mfg...also tell them that the finance man's back end is out of the question!!! good luck...you are better off buying a unsed car from an independent dealer or a private owner...good luck again!!!

Thanks, I know you are right about buying a good used car but I can't help but be suspicious when one wants to part with a newer model with low miles. I've been looking around and prices for used cars seem very high!

Wendy, Many 2,3 or 4 year old used cars are lease returns. The best quality used cars a dealer can get are lease returns because most people who lease will have their cars serviced regularly so they won't have to pay extra at lease end. Plus, the dealer may be able to show you the entire service history of that vehicle. I bought a Certified Pre-owned, three year old, $45,000 (when new) Audi for $24000 and got a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty. It had only 22,000 miles on it.

Three tips for buying used cars are;
1) always get the CarFax and read it thoroughly. If you cannot read it ask the salesman to go over it with you.
2) Find out who the previous owner was and call them. Ask them what issues they had with the car and why they got rid of it. Most people would be open to helping you and they have no vested interest in selling the car.
3) If the dealership has a franchise for that brand automobile ask the salesperson to get the service history from his service dept.

In response to other comments on this thread regarding new cars;

Many dealers don't allow their salespeople to negotiate price. That is why the salesman have to check with the manager. Eliminate all of that by buying through the dealers Internet Dept. Make an offer online to the dealership via email and if it is not accepted move on to another dealership.

The KBB "fair" price is a hoax as are KBB used car prices. They are way out of line. If you pay the KBB "fair" price you paid too much.

The best way to buy a car without haggling is to buy via the dealer's Internet Sales Dept. Most dealers will have their best prices online. Shop all the dealers in your area. If the Internet Dept. won't give you a price email another dealer. Make them an offer. Forget fairness. They will rip your lips off if you let them. Set what you are willing to pay and stick to it.

If you don't get a sales price "back of invoice" at the end of the month you are paying too much. You should get at least $500 under invoice plus get all incentives when buying at the end of the month. If the dealer won't go under invoice move on. Many, many other dealers will.

Don't get hung up on color. Color is an emotion. There isn't a color you won't get tired of in 6 months, anyway. If you are hung up on a color that is popular and there are not many in your area of that color, you limit your shopping options. And if the dealer knows he has what you want and his competition does not he'll be even less flexible on the price.

Don't get hung up on an individual dealer. I do not agree with finding a dealer and sticking with him. That is old-school. Go for price, only. Any dealer will service your car. Trust me, the dealer won't be loyal to you. If you think so he is fooling you.

If you are buying a new domestic car and know someone who worked for that company, ask them if they can help you get a better price. Ford and GM have "friends and family" pricing you can get via their employees.

I, personally, have sold nearly 5000 cars and trucks and salespeople working for me have sold tens of thousands more.

PM me if you have other questions. :popcorn:

Wow Golfer, what great information! Are ALL you guys from Ohio so nice and helpful? Thanks:bigbow:

New Car Dealers
 

I am wanting to check out the new Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. One dealer says they will be in any day now and another says not to the summer.

Just check out Truecar.com , they have a no hassle buying..too long to explain here. Car dealers don't like it but with the Internet today they have to bite the bullet.

The best deals I've ever made was when I wasn't buying a car but only helping someone(relative) negotiate the deal. It wasn't my money, and I couldn't care less about the car. With that attitude I got in both instances a much better deal than if I really wanted that car for myself. You got to be able to say "no" and walk away.