How do you feel about Senior facility refusing CPR
 

OK it's company policy but come on. Also how would you feel If same company has facility right here in TV. Somewhat old news and I didn't see another thread. Maybe someone can post a link if is is first time haring this.

Here's a link to one article about it:

Nursing Home CPR Case: Glenwood Gardens Defends Nurse Who Refused To Help Ailing Patient

If the individual who passed had a signed Do Not Resuscitate order on file, then the facility would have been following the wishes of that person. Otherwise, I can't understand someone from the facility not wanting to help the individual, especially since it's described in the article as an independent living facility.

Bill :)

Thanks Bill. On Oreilly a DNR was mentioned but they said it had nothing to do with what happened here. Go figure.

this was very sad and also disturbing. if the deceased was a resident of the facility and had a dnr or was under hospice care then what was done (or not done in this instance) was appropriate. if the deceased was just visiting and this happened, then a good samaritan gesture would have been appropriate. i do not know the details, but this is so sad.

Completely and totally unconscionable!!

Why have medical personal (it was a staff nurse that followed the letter of the facility law to the point of death) if they are not gong to be allowed to actually preform medical procedures in the event of an emergency. We are talking CPR!! Not open heart surgery!!

One must wonder just how much blame can be assigned to lawyers and fear of tort cases causing such an insane policy. Billy Shakespeare got it right ... "first, we kill all the lawyers"

I read a different article than the one Bill posted that clearly identified the deceased as a resident of the facility that DID NOT have a DNR. She occurred distress while at lunch.

Performing CPR is different than dealing with a DNR. You do not yet know if the person is dying, or is having a blockage from food, or whatever it could be. As an Administrator of a few Assisted Livings in my career, there has never been such a policy to not have CPR performed on someone who stops breathing. Further, there was a nurse there and on CNN the Executive Director said they had no nursing staff, that it was an Independent Living. No matter what it was, staff are trained in CPR whether they work in Independent, Assisted or Nursing Home. I, myself, was visiting my parents, when they lived in Seattle at their Independent Living, and a woman resident in the dining room keeled over and was not breathing. I immediately performed CPR while waiting for the paramedics and she came back very quickly. It is more than shocking to hear about this neglectful situation and I am sure that the Assisted Living company which manages that property will be under strict investigation by authorities. DNR is an order when someone is at life end or very ill and has made a decision to not want intervention; it does not relate to when someone is eating in the dining room and suddenly stops breathing, particulary if in fact this is an independent living where people are generally healthy and able. You do not leave someone lying on the floor who cannot breathe and stand over them and do nothing.

Thanks Jane for that educated post. Should answer a lot of questions.

Cpr
 

You are a good person Janie!!!!

Maybe I misunderstood the article I read in this morning's Orlando Sentinel, but it was stated that the woman was "barely breathing". I was taught that you do not administer CPR unless the patient had stopped breathing. Anyway, as for the facility's policy...I think it's awful.

What is the difference between Independent Living Facility and Assisted Living Facility?

I guess I really want to know is an Independent facility equipt to handle such an emergency--do the have oxygen?

If this person was breathing (but not well) rescue breathing should have been started or oxygen. Totally inexcusable for what the nurse did--or didn't do.

Very sad.

The company policy was NOT to use CPR when needed to save a person's life in an Independent Living facility----defies common sense and is outrageous. You have to wonder what committee came up with this dumb policy?? Unbelievable!

A product of the distortion that is allowed and will more and more as time goes on as the emphasis of medical care continues to shift from the well being of the patient to profit, loss and liability prevention!

.btk

An Independent Living Community provides a meal plan, housekeeping services, activities, transportation, and a secure environment for people who want these services yet remain generally able to care for themselves day to day; or who need some lower level of assistance but receive this from an outside contracted caregiver. An Independent Living is not licensed to provide personal care to residents. It does provide a safe atmosphere with the amenities of daily living and usually costs less than Assisted Living because no direct personal care is offered or provided.

An Assisted Living provides everything an Independent Living offers except it has a range of personal care services that are paid for depending on how much is needed. There are "levels" of care that have a point system and monetary cost associated with them. An Assisted Living may also have a Memory Care community within the building but separate and secure for individuals with alzheimers or dementia. Care costs can be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of extra dollars on top of the monthly rent fee depending on the needs of the person. Most of the Assisted Livings in our area are private pay which means that Medicaid does not cover the care of the person nor does Medicare. There are some, and I do not know where they are, that accept Medicaid and they are not usually as elegant as the private pay but can provide excellent care- a person must be financially eligible. The beauty of the building does not equate to good care. You need to be diligent in asking questions to evaluate excellence.

Some Assisted Living/Memory Care communities provide higher levels of care depending on how they are licensed. However, they do not administer oxygen-that is what 911 does. Assisted Livings are not hospitals-they can help with the activities of daily living such as bathing, dressing, mobility, eating, toileting and medication management. Some may do more. They are care communities, not medical communities. Staff are usualy all trained in CPR.

A Nursing Home is a Medical model with 24 hour nursing staff and doctors who see residents.

I would expect that no individual Independent or Assisted Living community would make a policy such as not to administer CPR without corporate approval, so it will be of most interest to see if the corporate office knew about this building's policy or if this was something that was unique to the community and unknown to the headquarters where the woman did not recieve help. I expect there will be some immediate personnel changes...

Imagine now being a resident in that home, or a family member of said resident, and considering your own risk if you keel over...something tells me things are gonna change there bigtime, and hopefully very soon.

Does anybody have a loved one at Freedom Pointe ? Better let them know company' policy on this just in case .

Brookdale Senior Living is the same corporate parent that not only administers Glenview Gardens, where CPR was not performed, but also our Freedom Pointe in The Villages. I think some clarification is in order re: their policy.

You are correct as usual applesoff, about the "barely breathing" situation and not aministering CPR.

Sometimes stories in the news are sensationalized but the nurses voice sounded so...uninvolved to me.

It is good for all of us to think about as we age and hope that our loved ones investigage these choices for us when the time comes.

There may be another side to this story that the media hasn't heard yet. I say that because it has been reported that the family of the deceased have no problem with the way things were handled by the independent living facility. Sounds like they knew the policy of not performing CPR when there loved one was admitted into this faclity and were fine with it which I find a little disturbing. From a human stand point someone should have done something but the litigious society that we live in keeps people at times from doing the right thing even though it shouldn't.

If I don't have a DNR, then I want CPR. :smiley:

Seriously, but true. I think it's terrible that a peron doesn't receive CPR over a situation that one could easily be revived. If one is at the end of their life and have a DNR, that is something everyone needs to decide for themselves.
I think in cases where one needs extroadinary measures to keep one alive is another situation that someone needs to decide via a health care rider that expresses one's exact wishes.

Most states have a 'good samaritan' law preventing those that give CPR from being sued.

I'm not a former lawyer, but my understanding of Good Samaritan laws is that it protects a non-professional from being sued. On the other hand if you are in an environment where you are acting in a professional capacity then you are held to a higher standard. An EMT doing CPR wrong is liable for the error if he was at the scene via 911. However if he happens upon an arrest and simply acts as a citizen he is protected unless he shunted others aside by claiming expertise. Laws vary but the intent is to encourage bystanders to act. That is why the 911 operator asked if there was a bystander available for her to instruct. The facility nurse if she did CPR would be held to a professional standard.

I too find it interesting that the family has been fine with the outcome.

Employees of The Villages will not perform CPR. This includes golf personnel. The feeling is that someone else will do it. And I really believe this has to do with potential law suits.

If you feel a heart attack coming on, get the heck off of Brookdale Senior Living property, and apparently, TV golf courses. You'll have better luck getting a response from a passer-by. This should make people think twice about moving to either of these communities.

I don't think anyone outside the family has enough information to make a judgment one way or another. When the resident signed the paperwork for the facility there was most likely a statement concerning CPR and other lifesaving measures but I don't know if there was. It was reported on the national news that the persons family was satisfied with the care so who are we that know nothing of the circumstances to judge?

1. As a practicing registered nurse, and the oath she took, if she really deserves to be in the nursing profession, how could she be so cold and uncaring as a person is obviously dying next to her. She will have to live with that.

2. As to that policy, I would love to be the lawyer representing her if she were fired for saving a life, in the unlawful termination lawsuit. The jury would most likely award her the deed to that assisted living facility.

What an argument for Tort reform.

As to the family being "satisfied" that kind of care is very expensive! Just saying!

Thanks, Gracie.

According to the news today, the "nurse" wasn't a nurse.

And according to the family, their mother didn't want any life saving intervention. However, the was no DNR form signed in her chart. So
why was 911 called?

Hummmm

As far as an EMT being sued for doing CPR "wrong" Not so. I've seen many,as I call them, "variations" of CPR done as a member of a CODE team for 24 years in the medical field, and never as anyone been sued!!!

Also, according to today's newspaper in an Associated Press report, "The homes's parent company said in a statement that the employee wrongly interpreted company policy when she declined to offer aide."

Sounds to me like the company is trying to distance themselves from this incident, and throw the "nurse" under the bus....Typical,.... just sayin

I always wondered if an ambulance would drive right onto a golf course if someone was having a heart attack? I'm assuming that they would but I have never seen or heard of such a thing. I would think that a golf course in TV would be a likely spot for a heart attack to happen.

I have seen an ambulance drive down the walking path between Lopez and Briarwood exec course and onto the Lopez golf course right up to a green.

also....
 

...if this pt was breathing they would not do CPR but....they were instructed by 911 to start CPR so at some point the patient did stop breathing etc and possibley had no pulse. I agree we probably don't know the whole story. Why would the family be happy with her care? Did they mean before the incident? Had the patient on many occasions said that she wanted to die? or have a debilitating disease? or state that she wanted no life saving measures at all? There are many questions we do not know. Also the facility at first said the employee acted correctly and now they have issued a different statement hmmmm wonder if this new statement was after the publicity occurred and they contacted their lawyers or their publicity consultant.

Also about the Good Sam law, I was instructed that a professional could be sued by anyone andnot although the professional may win the suit ....then there is the cost (off work etc) and time and stress of the suit. Also when we did CPR training....we were told that if you are a civilian (saw away from work) and kept on walkng and din't stop then, notyou were liable but....if you stop or identify yourself as a professional or trained in CPR, then you were obligated to perform it. Personally, I could not walk by. Which brings up the whole question about those areas in the villages where the neighbors went ahead and got a Defibrilator and got trained in CPR...now are they obligated? or liable for a lawsuit....not sure? It is such a sad thing to think about esp when some people are sue happy.

Also performing the Heimlich for a choking person is different than CPR.

they (dispatchers) actually have a book showing the closest street address to each hole on each course. This is something addressed at the good golf school, where they indicate the best way to give a 911 operator the location of a man down.

My opinion regarding this situation: it's all about lawyers!!!
The attitude these days seems to be this: if something bad happens, it must be somebody's fault. And the "injured" party is entitled to compensation.
Reaction to this attitude seems to be: if you don't get involved, you're less likely to get sued.
This case is a perfect example.

AP report today. The "nurse" was not employed as a nurse but rather as a residential services director. The family is not suing and "it was our beloved mother and grandmother's wish to die naturally and without any kind of life-prolonging intervention"

Think about it, who is going to sue you for performing CPR? The patient whose life you just saved or if the CPR did not result in a good outcome?
Medical professionals take BLS CPR or are trained ACLS. The lawsuit issue arises when training civilians--just to let them know they won't be sued.
Use of an AED lawsuit? Again, who is going to sue you for making an effort to save a life? But I think you hit on something. This person went down in the dining room and had difficulty breathing. Who's to say she didn't have an occluded airway when the Heimich should have been performed not CPR?

As this is the same company that owns and operates Freedom Pointe in The Villages any members ask them what their policy is? Also what if you were choking?
What if it were an employee?

Not to try to help a fellow human being is disgraceful.

Often, people go into these living facilities because they are no longer able to do their own housekeeping and cooking. I believe their average age is about 78. By age 87, the odds are about even that they have some dementia and are frail. The risk of CPR breaking ribs and possibly the sternum is high. And, even if the CPR is successful, the chances for recovery are low. If the person survives with broken ribs/sternum, chances for recovery will be even lower and very painful.

The nurse may have been familiar with this woman's health status and wondered why she should risk her job in a futile attempt to save a life.

I have seen the types of people who live in these facilities and in my opinion many of them have little regard for their own health. Many of them are overweight, some have had strokes and heart attacks, and yet they like the idea of being served restaurant food once, twice or three times a day. These places, essentially, are an assembly line to oblivion.

What kind of life would she have been saved for? Let's just say she's in a better place.