Developer IRS issues.
 

Can anyone update me on the latest on the IRS investigation of the developer and the use of the development bonds? I am a soon to be villager and want to keep current on this situation.
Thanks, Sue
:wave:

It isn't an IRS investigation of the developer. It isn't that he isn't paying his income tax. The investigation has been going on for more than five years as to whether a CDD can issue municipal bonds and not pay federal taxes on them. There are other CDD's in Florida but of course, The Villages is the largest.

Recently it was determined that the Morse organization did not make a profit on the entities that they turned over to the CDD's, which included real property such as the Savannah Center and other rec centers.

To all wannabees, do your due diligince on every issue and if you are still concerned, please don't buy here.

Also for people considering buying here, you cannot buy a new home and write a contingincy and you cannot get a loan on a new home using FHA or VA. There is a separate bond that you must pay that is the cost of the infrastructure and it is about 23K for a designer and is NOT figured into the cost of a new home and that is unlike any other place I have lived. When you pay a deposit on a home they won't refund it and the developer is enormously rich and invites representatives of a certain political party to speak at the squares. The paper is slanted politically and the majority of the people living here vote for a certain party.

I don't want any ugly surprises for anyone considering buying here because you are not being forced to.

OH...and you will find a good share of oldish people living here and some of them are fat.

Suits us just fine, but it isn't for everybody.

Nobody knows if the STD rate is high, but some think it is a big fib.

But...we are all alive and still kicking and who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

AND if a certain poster sends me another PM asking how much the developer pays me ...I am going to either cry or cuss.

Even though this is a repeated question to many of us, I can see why a new resident to be would ask. It's not a repeated question to them. They should feel free to ask questions and be welcomed.

I agree, not nice to be snarky to newbies. And the Developer essentially is the Villages in that he controls and gets paid for everything from the media to real estate sales, to trash pick ups. He is most certainly the force behind the tax exempt bond offerings that are being investigated by the IRS, since he created the development districts in the Villages in order to issue the bonds . There is an informative article in Business Week that offers more information: Billionaire Morse Behind Curtain at Villages - Businessweek

You are telling me not to be snarky?

Oh and Chinook is not a new poster, I checked. I read every one of her posts. She has been posting since 2010 and she is a nice person and doing what she should be doing..asking questions and gaining information. The post I posted was for the benefit for anyone new or anyone who thinks that they can slither in here and start trouble. Sorry Chinook, if I hurt your feelers. I really am. You were asking honestly and kindly.

The article you linked. Mickey109 is fair and accurate and points out the politics of the developer and also points out which party his business contributes to.

These sites will help you learn about the issue and if you check back at them you will get the current take.
Village Community Development Districts
http://www.districtgov.org/images/wh...ews2009031.pdf
A BRIEF CHRONOLOGY OF IRS VS. VCCDD AND SLCDD
The Villages Homeowners Association

G-Person..You may be missing out on something here. Since you're always being ACCUSED of being paid by Morse Industries, maybe you should turn lemons to lemonade and see if they'll hire you in the Morse Industries PR Department and actually have them send you a check every couple of weeks!!

Then you can decide whether you want to spend your money at Publix or Sweetbay!

Happy Daze,
XO
Mack

Chapter 8 of the book Leisureville, Government, Inc., is fairly informative about how The Villages is operated. It took me a few reads of the chapter to understand the CDD structure and from that what the IRS's position could be, but I think I finally absorbed it.

GREAT POST !!!

You are correct and not doing anything but telling the truth. I have been here for about 14 years and tired of hearing all the "snarky" comments about the developer.

He does not "shake down" business here in The Villages. About 15 years ago, he was spending his own money to entice and was actually begging busness to come to The Villages.

He does not have "secrets" to spring on you and believe it or not, has no knowledge of where a sinkhole might spring up (does anyone).

He is not under investigation, as folks on here keep alluding to. You are correct that the CDD use is what is being looked which by the way was first used by Walt Disney just down the road.

Reading the misinformation on here and the constant complaining is very unsettling.

When you move ANYWHERE, not just here, do you not do your own due diligence ?

And someone recently said that things are not done for the benefit of the residents. Gee.......we sure see things differently. Sometimes folks get spoiled and should just find that perfect place...oh wait..thats the point....some will complain about anything with NO facts in order to be happy I suppose.

Again....GREAT POST

Bonds setup by State of Florida
 

With all due respect, the Morse family did not setup the CDD'S, the State of Florida did to attract development. They go all the way back to The startup of Disney World. This is often overlooked. :wave:

We attended a CDD meeting recently (we are new home owners in The Villages, but not new to Florida). It was very informative and very helpful in understanding how our government structure works here. So far it seems like a very effective form of governing. Apparently CDD's have been used here in Florida since the 1800's.

As far as the IRS incident, the recent IRS findings were very good for us. Their auditors found our community assets are worth way more than the CDD's paid for them and have been a good deal for all involved (CDD, developer, and residents).

Just putting in my two cents.

I meant to say he created them in The Villages. Thanks for clarifying for those who aren't familiar with the CDD process. And the CDD's are a legal entity and could benefit many people when they are operated correctly. The IRS issue is the the CDD's in The Villages are not acting like a public entity since they are controlled so closely by the developer, hence the question about their validity.

OMG, I love it !!!! :1rotfl:

I have also been here 13 years & love the Villages & all associated with the Villages for giving me a great, fun place to live.
I must say, if I owned the Villages, I would run it the way I want to run it because it would be mine ! Those who don't like the way I run it can move to Stonecrest or Spruce Creek. :a20:
Hope everyone has a wonderful day !!! :wave:

News Flash.....

This just in.......

Rumor has it the developer is an "R"......

Stay tuned......

I don't know how to include multiple posts so....Gracie and Bonnie what you both said is great as well. Snarky posts upset me as well, AS do the harsh attitudes I've encountered while "out and about" in T.V. Just saying... Why do folks move to then stay in a place that they don't seem to like?

You are for sure onto much of this !!! Folks who label and then, not matter the truth, hate the label !!!

Thanks for the information
 

I appreciate the information, my father in law lives in the villages but he is not always the best source of info! He can also be negative and slanted towards the developer and that is not my intent. I live a long way away and want to be aware of what is going on as I have read about this issue and don't fully understand it myself.

I've read that chapter!
 

Thanks manaboutown, I too have read that chapter and I still don't understand it. I have not lived anywhere with a CDD structure. It as well as the bonds are new to me. The villages is totally great and I love the place.

Realist, Recluse, Raconteur, Runner, Rocker? I'm not exactly sure what you mean. :wave:

Admin is gonna come on here and smack us all silly.

I might have mentioned this before..but telling TV "true believers" to look something up and accept the information offered in "Leisureville" as truth is akin to telling Christians that the Koran is an acceptable alternative to The Bible.

Raccoon? Roustabout? Rambler? Rumrunner? Road Roller?

Or perhaps the other way around. We all realize Blechman had an agenda which is certainly not mine since I side strongly with the politics of the developer and plan on moving to a 55 and over active adult community. Nonetheless, Andrew did his homework and dug up and presented in his rather entertaining book some very important information, information I would certainly want as a potential future villager. I am the sort of person who whenever possible makes informed decisions. Others may not agree with them but I am the one who must live with them. Just for starters this particular chapter I found to concisely sum up the CDD structure possibly unique to TV, that the central districts which contain no residents are controlled by the developer AND they control the CDDs which contain residents. That is very important to know and understand, at least to me.

I don't disagree with what you say and I think Gary Morse is a genius. I'm not saying you shouldn't refer to it. However, I have noticed that "Leisureville" in the hearts and minds of a certain group in TV and among those who comment here on TOTV find Leisureville to be practically satanic. You don't make a lot of friends here by quoting it or agreeing with anything that Blechman postulates and you WILL hear about it if you do.

If you push away from Blechman's obvious bias, he DOES bring up some very interesting points. However, it is NOT a popular book to refer to here.

I think most people who read the book agree that the book was slanted to SELL it. There is a LOT of factual information and a lot of interesting "tales" about Mr. Midnight and the wild sex here. Not saying it isn't happening but it was a little too..um...canned.

I THINK what some people object to is the premise that an older person should stay "put" and enrich their surroundings rather than grabbing some "selfish" happiness for themselves.

No one I knows HATED it...they felt it was an attempt to earn a little money for Mr. Blechman...which it did.

Your last paragraph relies on a misleading headline and article that appeared in the Developer's Daily Sun. See the latest POA Bulletin on the subject (refer to page 2 for the facts): http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_file...etin201304.pdf. Hopefully, the Daily Sun's version of events will eventually be true, but it is not yet.

Are you the lawyer that won the lawsuit against the developer?

I have read all of your posts. Most are on THIS subject.

The POA Bulleton listed the 3 points of contention between the IRS and the TV CCDs. The IRS states the value of the property transfered from the Developer to the CCD meets thi requirements of the IRS, thus answering the question of Point 2. Both Points 1&3, still need to be settled. Please read the POA Bulletin to become informed about the lingering problems between the IRS and the TV CCDs.

No to your first question. I had no connection whatsoever with that lawsuit. Also, I hope that the Center Districts (and therefore the Developer) prevail in the IRS investigation, or if they don't prevail, I hope that the matter is resolved in a way that does not negatively impact the Villagers. By the way, to turn your question to me around: Was your maiden name Morse or was it Schwartz? (Just kidding.)

Furthermore, let me say, once again, that I think that The Villages is a great place to live and that the Developer has done an amazing job in planning, building, and maintaining The Villages. Of course, how the Developer has financed all this is what the IRS is questioning.

You are correct as to the vast majority of my posts being on the subject of the IRS investigation. This is because: I only like to post on subjects that I know something about, rather than posting on every subject that comes up in the forum. The IRS investigation is a subject that I do I think I understand pretty well. It is also one that is important to all Villagers, and one that I believe has been poorly reported (to put it mildly) by the Daily Sun and the VHA Bulletin.

Thank you. Several dozen people know me on this forum, have been to my home, played golf with me, chatted with me at Crispers. They know my real name and have met my real husband and my real children and know my politics and my religion. I am NOT anonymous..

I invite you to stop by Advogado. Anytime.

Contrary to the Daily Sun headline and the headline in the VHA Bulletin: "District Prevails in IRS finding, the truth seems to be that the "prevailing" is, at this point, merely an argument made by the District's attorney. Hopefully, his argument will carry the day, but it apparently hasn't yet. Here is how the Bondbuyer reported the story (contrast this with the Daily Sun and VHA Bulletin):
"Florida CDD Urges IRS End Audit After Review Shows It Didn't Overpay for Property
The Internal Revenue Service's own appraisal valuations show the Village Center Community Development District in Florida did not overpay when purchasing four pieces of property with bond proceeds, according to the CDD's lawyer." [emphasis added]

Bond Buyer Online - Florida CDD Urges IRS End Audit After Review Shows It Didn t Overpay for Property

:BigApplause:

Not adhering to internet safety is nothing to brag about. When one posts on a public blog , information adds up over time. You mention your name, that you live near a certain rec center. Two months later you mention a nearby street, 3 months later you mention your neighborhood, thinking its too large and couldn't possibly be unsafe to reveal this information. Any crazy stalker who reads your blogs can put these details together and figure out where you live and track you down.

Oh well.

Seems like they just want some info.Thats what TOTV is about.Enough about old and new posters.

The VCCDD receives all amenity funds north of 466. It was essentially a developer controlled enitiy whcih purchased properties from the developer using tax free bonds. The question from the IRS is pretty clear, is the VCCDD a governmental authority with the right to issue those bonds. amenity funds recevied are used to make payments on the issued bonds. The methodology used by the VCCDD to determine the value of the bonds included the purchase of a stream of funds from the amenities. the newspaper article indicates this approach was appropriate, however nowhere did I see that the IRS has concurred.
I love the lifestyle here, but that does not mean that the IRS is incorrect in questioning the approach.

Exactly, Hadleyite. Everyone I know loves living here. That's not the problem. The big question was whether or not the IRS was correct in saying that the VCCDD does not act like a real governmental authority and does not have the right to issue the bonds.

Correct people from all over the world can read/ glean information from TOTV and use it for what ever purpose they wish if they are so inclined. I had an aunt that had her bank account cleaned out after her husband died and the obit was posted online. Using just a little bit of basic information someone got my uncles birth certificate and set up a fake id went to the bank and cleaned out the account. She got all of her money back but it took weeks.

Nope. Gotta fully agree with Gracie. When this manure starts up it's only for one reason..to stir the pot. Factual legal information on the developer and the CDD/IRS theme are NOT going to be found here. The only reason this starts up is to pour gasoline on the fire.