Using olive oil because you think it's healthy, it's time to think again!
 

Rich Olive Oil, impairs endothelial function after eating. If you've been using olive oil because you think it's healthy, it's time to think again.

Here's Why You May Want to Think Twice About Olive Oil

From Dr. Dean Ornish: It's 100% fat and 14% of it is saturated. At 120 calories a tablespoon it's very easy to eat too much of "a bad thing". It won't raise your LDL as much as butter or other saturated fats will, so it might look like it's reducing your cholesterol, but it's still raising it. It's just not raising it as much other fats would! It's the omega-3's that reduce inflammation and are "heart healthy", and olive oil has very little omega-3, maybe 1%. It's mostly omega-9, which has been shown to impair blood vessel function.

From Dr. Robert Vogel of the University of Maryland: Back in 2000 Vogel based his study on the Lyon Heart Study, which is the big-time study that got us all to eat the Mediterranean Diet. He wanted to see how olive oil, salmon (fish oil) and canola oil actually affect the blood vessels. Using the brachial artery tourniquet test he had 10 healthy volunteers with normal cholesterol ingest 50 grams of fat, in the form of olive oil & bread, canola oil & bread, and salmon. Measuring their arterial blood flow before & after each meal Vogel could tell whether or not a meal was causing damage to the endothelial lining of the brachial artery, based on how the blood was flowing through the artery after the meal was eaten. The results really surprised him. The olive oil constricted blood flow by a whopping 31% after the meal; the canola oil constricted it by 10%; and the salmon reduced it by only 2%. Why should we care? Because when the arteries constrict, the endothelium (the vessel's lining) is injured, triggering plaque build-up, or atherosclerosis. Vogel RA. Corretti MC. Plotnick GD. The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function. Journal of the American College of Cardiology. 36(5):1455-60, 2000 Nov 1. Similar results have been found it later studies. This isn't just a one-hit wonder. Interestingly, walnuts, which have Omega-3's have also been shown to improve blood flow by 24% using the brachial artery tourniquet test. Go omega 3's!

How does olive oil constrict blood vessels?: Dr. Vogel discovered back in 1999 that a high fat meal blocks the endothelium's ability to produce that all important NITRIC OXIDE, which is a vasodilator and critical to preserving the tone & health of our blood vessels. When olive oil constricts the blood vessels it's because it's blocking the production of nitric oxide. Not a good thing!

From Dr. Caldwell Esseltsyn: Dr. E tells a story in his book about Rev. William Valentine of North Carolina who had a quintuple bypass in 1990. Since his surgery he followed a strict plant-based diet, dropping from 210 pounds to 156 pounds. For 14 years he maintained his weight & his diet. But by 2004 he started to experience a recurrence of angina, especially when he exercised. He promptly contacted Dr. Esselstyn after reading about his success in reversing heart disease in a health newsletter. Valentine wanted no part of a repeat bypass or other intervention. He assured Dr. E that he only ate whole grains, legumes, vegetable & fruit. A baffled Dr. E prompted him to repeat once again everything he was eating, leaving nothing out.

"He had forgotten to mention that he was consuming "heart healthy" olive oil at every lunch and dinner and in salads. It was what they call a Eureka moment. Immediately, I advised him to give up the olive oil. He did--and within seven weeks, his angina had completely disappeared." Dr. Esselstyn


Little known fact: Olive oil, which got its big "heart healthy" start with the Lyon Study, wasn't even used in the study. The study volunteers didn't like the taste of it, so canola oil was substituted for olive oil. All the benefit that we attributed to olive oil, was actually from Omega-3 enriched canola oil.


What does Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn advise?: When it comes to olive oil, canola or any oil--FORGET ABOUT IT.

He does advise taking a tablespoon of flaxseed every day for omega 3's.

We have been on an oil free diet almost three years, the results have been nothing short of amazing BP decreased no more need for those meds.

Plaque was reduced so significantly the tests were deemed incorrect and repeated.

Only to find they were in fact correct.

On salads for instance we have different types of balsamic vinegar rather than balsamic vinaigrette, the vinaigrette has oil.

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Here's a question I have been wrestling with: The human body has trillions(?) of cells and every cell contains some saturated fat for cell construction, otherwise the cell wall, for example, wouldn't have the strength that it needs. If we don't get any saturated fat from our diet, our body will manufacture it. Except, as one lipids expert has said, the saturated fat that we manufacture is not as good as what we would get from our diet.

I'm not suggesting that we suddenly start eating a lot of saturated fat but I don't see the harm in having a little olive oil for flavoring, assuming we can maintain an ideal weight, as I do.

Not only that, but Olive Oil is proven to be better than veg oil. Read all of the OP posts, and you will find a little over the top advice.

Ask your endothelium cells how they like it?

I can see your point but can you give me an alternative to olive oil to put in my skillet to keep my egg beaters from sticking? That's the only oil I use.

Well I don't eat fake eggs(dairy), so I have no first hand experience.

In fact I think a poached egg is healthier than that crap.

But to saute other things U can use Vegetable broth or tomato sauce w/o oil, wine or red wine, braggs liquid aminos, pineapple juice etc.

Sure but what is sticking to walls of your arteries?

We're talking about not using oil?

If you can't understand the connection with oils and artery damage......well


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then if that source is satisfactory for U by all means follow it.

Anyone else should read the info in post #1, the Autobike guys didn't or didn't get it.

Experts. Gosh you can't live with them but you can't live without them. Hmmmm Oh yes you can.

The assumption was that saturated fat and cholestrol in red meat created heart disease. a recent study in the Journal Nature Medicine points to carnitine a compound found abundant in red meat and also sold as a dietary supplement and found in energy drinks. Carnitine transports fatty acids into cells to be used as energy Cleveland Clinic found that with a certain bacteria in the digestive tract converts carnitine to another metaboite called TMAO that promotes atherosclerosis.

Now we are back to what is good for the goose may or not be good for the gander. If my body does not possess that certain bacteria then it will not interfere with the proper processing of canitine to give me that energy boost.

The problem with any and all of these studies is that they are general in nature given we are dealing with billions of people with diverse eating , physical and other habits.

EVOO may not be good for goose but gander loves the taste without compromising her health. In a real life situation my gander is my wife and she does not restrict her diet. yet when she tests for cholestrol her LDL's are so low and her HDL's so high she gets a false reading of a negative nature when in fact her readings are super.

I respect and truly take heed and certainly would not throw caution to the wind for those offering advice either be they experts or people like jimbo who study such issues in detail. But one must account for the fact that even with the best intentions such issues are open for further interpretations and conclusions.

I once again default to my natural position of "moderation in all things."

I mean what good is life without a periodic bannana split, etc.

Very intelligent and well thought out post!

When our bodies produce saturated fat for cell construction, where do you think it gets produced? I would assume it gets produced by the liver. Then how does the saturated fat get from the liver to where the new cells are being "constructed"? The only mode of travel in the body is by way of the blood stream. How does the endothelium survive that?

It's great to have an expert nutritionist on this board. How do you consider Egg Beaters fake eggs when it is eggs without the yoke which contains the cholesterol. Your recommended poached eggs, of course contain the yoke and cholesteral. I know where you are coming from. I see you as reading a book or two, believing in the theory, and preaching to the rest of us because you want to be helpful. How do you explain how the Mediterranean diet gets high marks with so many people living to the 90's and more using so much OLIVE OIL????

A little chemistry about what goes on.....


The body uses saturated fatty acids mainly as a source of energy, but also as a building material (cell membranes). It obtains them either directly from food, or by conversion from sugars and starches. It is only when the level of saturated fatty acids in the body becomes excessive that they become a health problem. And this occurs when the rate of their absorption/conversion is higher than the rate at which the body burns the excess for energy.

Obviously, the key is in balancing your saturated lipids and carbohydrate intake with your physical activity.

Another common scenario of excess saturated fats intake being unhealthy over-consumption of animal fats from meats, eggs or dairy. Here, it is not saturated fats themselves, but the accompanying animal-made unsaturated fatty acid - arachidonic acid, also made by our own bodies - that does the harm. It is metabolized by the body to pro-inflammatory 2 Series prostaglandins and leukotrienes, more so when Omega-3 unsaturated fatty acid intake is low. These prostaglandins also make blood platelets more sticky, further promoting their aggregation and clot formation.

If I recall correctly did you not have a cardiac event? I apologize if I'm incorrect.

I studied a lot more than a book or two, not preaching at all just relaying the facts of others and our personal results and those close friends who changed to vegan diet/lifestyle.

No one is twisting your arm to read it or do it. Do what works for U

For U to ask about the Mediterranean diet, I don't think you saw the 8 minute video by Dr. Jeff Novick I posted before, he nails it!

see here

Back to fake eggs

Ingredients in egg beaters:
Egg Whites, Salt, Onion Powder, Vegetable Gums (Xanthan Gum, Guar Gum), Maltodextrin. Vitamins and Minerals: Calcium Sulfate, Iron (Ferric Phosphate), Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol Acetate), Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12, Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin), Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Mononitrate), Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride), Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3

Xanthan gum (from China) is a polysaccharide secreted by the bacterium Xanthomonas campestris,used as a food additive and rheology modifier, commonly used as a food thickening agent and a stabilizer (in cosmetic products, for example, to prevent ingredients from separating). It is produced by the fermentation of glucose, sucrose, or lactose. After a fermentation period, the polysaccharide is precipitated from a growth medium with isopropyl alcohol, dried, and ground into a fine powder. Later, it is added to a liquid medium to form the gum.

Evaluation of workers exposed to xanthan gum dust found evidence of a link to respiratory symptoms.

Only fake industrial food-like products need stuff like that.

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While protein is found in the entire egg, most of its nutritional value is contained in the yolk--which is also, unfortunately, where most of the egg's cholesterol resides.

Nutrients not present in Egg Beaters that are found in farm eggs include choline, is a "little-known but essential nutrient". Other nutrients missing from Egg Beaters are lutein and zeaxanthin, which protect the eyes against age-related conditions such as cataracts and macular degeneration.

The only ingredient in an egg is…..

When it comes to cholesterol, researchers have found that eggs barely influence cholesterol levels. If you eat 1-2 eggs a couple times a week, MOST cholesterol levels will not be affected.

Also, even though nutrients may be added back in to Egg Beaters to enhance the nutritional quality, “the problem with this nutrient specific approach is that science has yet to identify hundreds of other nutrients and their interaction amongst each other when naturally present in a food.

Selecting a few nutrients and focusing on them instead of on a whole food is part of a larger problem in the US food system today.”


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The human body can make all the saturated fat it needs.:thumbup:

pooh: Help me here. Based on your aforementioned comments what are your thoughts on a Harvard health Study done some years ago wherein medical people defined three types of people Excretors,Compensators and Storers of cholestrol. The first type passed cholestrol through the system. the second group balanced the amiubt of cholestrol taken with that which was produced by the body and eliminated the excess. The third group well their system just liked cholestrol so much it stored all it could get. This article made sense to me. It also occurred to me that something could upset this balance and compensators could become storers.

Fats have become the bad guy over the years.....but not all fats are the bad guys. Bodies use fats for energy, cell building, and almost all foods, including veggies, contain fats, though in small amounts. They also are filling...we are satisfied and can go longer between feedings. Of course, ingestion of too many fats isn't good, too many calories. Too much of anything isn't good...:)

I haven't read the study you've mentioned, but have heard something about the conclusions drawn or seen. Each of us is unique and different from one another. We are the results of a genetic soup and react and respond to stimuli in our own biochemical way. My Dad was a big beef, chicken, egg eater. He lived to 97 years of age. His cholesterol levels were always fantastic. Mom, who lived to 88, was more of a carb eater than heavy protein. Her figures were always higher than his. My brother seems to show low cholesterol levels like Dad. My sister and I tend to be more like Mom. Guess Dad had that non-responder type of body chemistry as far as this particular reaction is concerned.
Everyone should realize that highly processed foods, sodas, sweets, etc. offer calories, often times more than we need, and excess amounts of sugars, salt, and simple carbs that can adversely impact blood sugar levels. Moderation is the key as well as knowing how your body reacts and responds to foods. We are adults and have lived in our bodies for many years. Learning to eat correctly for your body chemistry is an ongoing process. We do not live without cellular change. Some is due to aging, some the result of environment, food intake, stress, so we should do our best to monitor ourselves, within limits. Personally, I think a hot fudge sundae every now and then is fun, delicious and satisfying.
No offense to those who are on much more strict food regimens....food is only one part of life and in addition to providing me with energy, I want more of a variety. Strictly plant based doesn't work well for me.....emotionally as well as biochemically.

Damnation, I'd better get off of my soapbox now and get some breakfast....an egg, yogurt, fruit, one small slice of bacon and toast.

Pooh (Quote)
Fats have become the bad guy over the years.....but not all fats are the bad guys. Bodies use fats for energy, cell building, and almost all foods, including veggies, contain fats, though in small amounts. They also are filling...we are satisfied and can go longer between feedings. Of course, ingestion of too many fats isn't good, too many calories. Too much of anything isn't good...:)

I haven't read the study you've mentioned, but have heard something about the conclusions drawn or seen. Each of us is unique and different from one another. We are the results of a genetic soup and react and respond to stimuli in our own biochemical way. My Dad was a big beef, chicken, egg eater. He lived to 97 years of age. His cholesterol levels were always fantastic. Mom, who lived to 88, was more of a carb eater than heavy protein. Her figures were always higher than his. My brother seems to show low cholesterol levels like Dad. My sister and I tend to be more like Mom. Guess Dad had that non-responder type of body chemistry as far as this particular reaction is concerned.
Everyone should realize that highly processed foods, sodas, sweets, etc. offer calories, often times more than we need, and excess amounts of sugars, salt, and simple carbs that can adversely impact blood sugar levels. Moderation is the key as well as knowing how your body reacts and responds to foods. We are adults and have lived in our bodies for many years. Learning to eat correctly for your body chemistry is an ongoing process. We do not live without cellular change. Some is due to aging, some the result of environment, food intake, stress, so we should do our best to monitor ourselves, within limits. Personally, I think a hot fudge sundae every now and then is fun, delicious and satisfying.
No offense to those who are on much more strict food regimens....food is only one part of life and in addition to providing me with energy, I want more of a variety. Strictly plant based doesn't work well for me.....emotionally as well as biochemically.

Damnation, I'd better get off of my soapbox now and get some breakfast....an egg, yogurt, fruit, one small slice of bacon and toast. (quote)


Pooh (quote)

A little chemistry about what goes on.....


The body uses saturated fatty acids mainly as a source of energy, but also as a building material (cell membranes). It obtains them either directly from food, or by conversion from sugars and starches. It is only when the level of saturated fatty acids in the body becomes excessive that they become a health problem. And this occurs when the rate of their absorption/conversion is higher than the rate at which the body burns the excess for energy.

Obviously, the key is in balancing your saturated lipids and carbohydrate intake with your physical activity.

Another common scenario of excess saturated fats intake being unhealthy over-consumption of animal fats from meats, eggs or dairy. Here, it is not saturated fats themselves, but the accompanying animal-made unsaturated fatty acid - arachidonic acid, also made by our own bodies - that does the harm. It is metabolized by the body to pro-inflammatory 2 Series prostaglandins and leukotrienes, more so when Omega-3 unsaturated fatty acid intake is low. These prostaglandins also make blood platelets more sticky, further promoting their aggregation and clot formation. (quote)

Excellent posts.

BOY HOWDY!:highfive::thumbup::22yikes::D:BigApplause:

Because it was drilled into U doesn't make it the gold standard does it?

That article is by a very well respected Dr. no doubt, but if U look at all his published papers none touch upon the subject of a plant based diet or the benefits of olive oil.

You one link to a very brief comment is not a scientific paper.

We follow the following Dr's, Esseltyn, Colin Campbell & dean Ornish, McDougal etc these Dr's are on the current edge of diet & nutrition and have IMO the strongest resumes and research on this subject.

They were put on the world stage treating Bill Clinton, then the followed up with DVD documentary "Fork over knives" the best selling DVD on Amazon last year.

In January I did a showing of that movie at the Savannah Ctr and arranged to have one of the patients in the movie along with myself follow up with a 90 minute Q&A, 225 people attended.

It was an eye opener for all.

Bottom line all oils damage the arteries, my own medical studies (MRI's, Echo's) bear that out. This diet can clean out your arteries - FACT.

I never claimed to be an expert, :read: so please don't complain about my advice or opinions on heath & diet until U start paying me. :1rotfl:




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I also agree that much of the research surrounding olive oil shows many benefits. I personally use olive oil very liberally and have arteries that are clean and clear. What works for one or is healthy for one is not always healthy for all, this is why they use many subjects when they study any protocol. Also you can find studies and doctors that will support the benefit of any "healthy lifestyle" you wish to follow and if someone follows that protocol they will usually defend it to the death no matter what conflicting evidence is presented.

And do you know that?

R U taking any cholesterol meds?

What tests did you have done, care to share that?

There are some studies that show the benefits of a Med diet which includes olive oil. One study was done in Canada. Results were presented at the Canadian Cardiovascular Conference. Researchers were from the University of Montreal-affiliated ÉPIC Center of the Montreal Heart Institute. Studies were published on the New England Journal of Medicine's web site in Feb. of this year. The findings were based on the first major clinical trial to measure the diet’s effect on heart risks.

We can all find various studies that might strengthen our position. Jimbo's diet strategy works well for him....he has seen significant changes for the good in his physical and biochemical condition. Others have seen similar results following a Medeterranian diet plan. Not all can adhere to a vegan eating plan, and find alternatives more appealing...and results for them could be just as beneficial.
No two people are alike, no two people have the same response to stimuli.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....:D

Pooh, a vegan diet at first takes will power, not everyone can do it.

Sometimes it takes a medical event to find that will power.

There is another group of vegans that R on a plant based diet due to the way animals are raised and slaughtered.

For those interested in asking diet questions and a zillion other health questions check out

Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board • Index page

10,000 members 350,000 posts

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I thought I was the only one around here that read that "review"......;)

I have no doubt it takes will power. For me, physiologically and psychologically, it's a no go. Even those who espouse vegan diets differ in just what is appropriate as far as what foods are acceptable.....just like the rest of us....;)

Good health to you, Jimbo.

If you think about it, over the last 300 (or more) years the "expert" opinion is ultimately proven "bad medicine" by other experts 10-30 years later. But it is possible that Jimbo's expert will break that tradition.:a20:

It will be a cold day in hell when the scientific community agrees in total.

No meds period for anything. You may not remember I laid out in past post the trial I have been taking part in for years that involve eating lots of meat and oils including starting off my day with grass fed butter and organic coconut oil in my first cup of coffee, no need to go over it again but certainly look at my past post on this subject if you are really all that interested. I get tested, scanned, poked and prodded multiple times a year and I'm clean and clear

I forgot I also eat 4 or 5 eggs in a nice cheese omelet with onions every day for lunch which is the first meal of my day.

Ok what tests?

MRI 256 slice
Cardioid duplex
Heart echo
Stress with dye

Now we know you're playing with us.

calcium coronary scores
carotid artery ultrasound
CT angiograph

and many many more

Sure whatever you think

My wife reminds me once every 2 years I also get cardiac catheterization as part of the study

I think your playing, never heard of anyone eationg that bad with no meds in perfect health.
But if not, when you get a 256 slice and that's negative then you can say your clean.

What I read from Dr. Dean Ornish is that people are born with different numbers of cholesterol receptors. Some people may only have a few while others have many. The more you have, the better able you will be to quickly dispose of excess cholesterol.

What it means for people at risk: Some people, with stubornly high cholesterol, will have to work harder at eating healthier. (Tough luck, life isn't fair.)

You know cantwaittoarrive he most difficult daily decision for retiress is"what will I have for breakfast? Eggs are one of my favorite foods.

Sure I will let my doc running the study know some person on a internet forum says their wrong.

mine too!

As I have always said people are different. What is good for one might kill someone else. This is why they use many subjects in a study and not just one. You're also right life isn't fair. I would never tell anyone they should follow what I do or eat. Everyone is different. This is also why people should work with their doctor to determine what is healthy for them.