The Pope on Gay Priests
 

I would think he made the day for thousands of gay priests giving them the opertunity to come out. Very bold move for the Catholic Church. :pray:

Pope Francis.
 

Very brave move by the Pope. I really like this man's philosophy and life story.

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive

If priest are not supposed to be sexual - how is this okay?

When the pope said "Who am I to judge?", he could have been speaking to the general population and not only to fellow priests.

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

I disagree, giving them the avenue to come out, will also give them the OK to come out and free them from unneeded guilt. There are and always will be gay priests, so allow that fact to surface and you will have much less child molestation. Making the Priests hide their true feelings is what causes the perversion. Being open, nonjudgmental and loving rather than being prejudicial will improve the scandalous Catholic Church.

So absolutely true. :bigbow:

They all came out in Milwaukee years ago. Now the Milwaukee area Catholic Organization is bankrupt trying to avoid paying for past molestations and cover-ups. They set a great bunch of examples; the perverts and their leaders!:rant-rave:

Being sexual is a given to all men and women.

You go Jane..people need to realize that straight persons can also be pedophiles example " JERRY SANDUSKY NEED I say more....such a uprite citizen

But they take a vow of chastity. I am thrilled the Pope has opened the Catholic church to include everyone and not judge, but I still can't get over the comment about priests.

Well stated Jane! And just who are we to sit in judgement of anyone?

I spent a good part of my life developing programs for children and adults who have been victims of sexual abuse. Sorry but Daddy, Grandpa, Uncles, Best Buddy of Dad, Boy Scout Leader, Football Coach, Best Friend's Dad,...along with some women abusers such as teachers and swim coaches and moms...the list goes on because it is never exclusive. Those who make such uninformed and prejudicial comments are often the ones who do not want to look in the mirror and reflect on their own family history or their own personal and painful journies. 'Denial" is more than a river.

The Catholic church moves VERY slowly to change and has many, many difficulties with acceptance of knowledge that we all know is more valid than what it espouses.

BUT...it makes my old heart happy to see a truly kind man with a loving heart walk in the white robes. Perhaps he will move The Catholic Church forward. But don't expect too much.

Sandusky wasn't a priest nor was he straight. He only molested boys so he was either bisexual or gay. And as deplorable as his actions were, he did NOT take a vow of celibacy.

Also...

The overwhelming majority of molesters of boys are men and far fewer women. Saying that both genders can be molesters is correct, but the facts overwhelming point to a majority of male molesters.

IMHO, the Pope was simply acknowledging that all priests have to deal with temptation

I don't know Gracie, I think Pope Francis might be ushering in a new era in the Catholic church. He is so different from any Pope the church has ever had and not afraid to shake things up. He just may succeed in bringing the church back to where it should be. He has my prayers and hope for the future.

it may well be a given, but the priests do take an oath of celibacy, knowingly up front.

And we all know that in our fast moving and ever evolving permissive, no matter what it is OK society the reaction is most likely so what?

Ask guys like Weiner in NYC and the slug mayor in San Diego who are just examples of low lifes taking advantage of the new permissiveness in America.

btk

Thanks Jane.

if you all want to do some good researching go to www.awsipe.com check sex and reformation Sept 13, 2012 see the Vatican answer. I don't think there is any change the new pope's statement is the same answer.
I don't see how a priest could take the vow of celibacy and practice any kind of sex. (Mr Webster states celibacy - the state of being unmarried abstention by law from marriage abstention from sexual incercouse) the last part abstention seems to apply. Not a judgement call just fact. Doesn't rock by boat what will be will be.

Some continue to purposely miss the point. There is a difference between acknowledging the intrinsic, God-given value and dignity of the person.....and validating their lifestyle/behavior that, by choice, disobeys the Commandments and rebels against God's authority over one's life.

The new pope said nothing new according to the Catechism section below that all would do well to read slowly and open-mindedly.

He just communicated the central message better than past ones did. He did not condone the behavior/lifestyle that breaches vows of chastity and celibacy. He reaffirmed that the person has all the worth and dignity anyone else has in God's eyes. It's the act of homosexual union that is condemned, not the person.

Nothing the new pope said approves homosexual priests having a sex partner, neither short nor long-term, nor hetero nor homosexual. They're vowed to not have sex of ANY kind!

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The integrity of the person

2338 The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.

2339 Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.

"Man's dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when,......

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.......

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment[/QUOTE]

I hope this isn't going to turn into a religious fight. It is one thing to argue political philosophy but religion is pretty near and dear to people's hearts. I grew up a Lutheran and became a Catholic and love both of those religions for various and sundry things. Neither are perfect I guess.

When people put the reformation into any sentence I cry out....tooooo long ago. Most huge changes were attempts to make any thing better and some did and some didn't. Religion is a highly personal and very sacred thing to most of us. It isn't logical but most of us hold on to some tenets of some kind of religion, if it is only tradition. It is part and parcel of our lives and if God lives, he/she is the only person who knows if we are doin' it right.

Most faiths hold out kindness as one of the first things you learn. I hope most of us can work toward that premise in our dealings with other peoples religious beliefs.

But we won't. People are people.

And there is a door out of this thread. I think I will use it this time.

Rubicon ... My thoughts as well and I agree with you. I was never molested as a kid but I was an altar boy for a while. The Church can simply never allow that kind of exploitation to ever again reoccur.

please let us not limit the behavior intollerance within the or a church. The problem is ever present where there is an adult male and young boys or girls.

And today's anything goes society, with x rated viewing on television and movies along with a growing permissive attitude does nothing except pervert some and then turn around and permit or look over others.

Example (again): perverts like Weiner in NY and the slug of a mayor in San Diego who defy moral principal and still pursue their intentions as if nothing happened. And I will remain polite by not offering an opinion about those who support or vote for such immoral :censored:

btk

The Pope Francis said a while back that there was a Gay Mafia in the Vatican, he seemed to imply he was to take care of that, the slanted, twisted LSM report implies that he did. I do not think that The Holy Father was giving a green light to priests having homosexual relations in violation of their oaths of celibacy.

He is also undoing the Summo Pontificam Moto Proprio of Benedict XVI to free up the Traditional Latin Mass by banning it in the Franciscan order.

The poster who copied a section of the Catholic catechism regarding homosexual behavior has to remember that is man made religious law.

Priest are supposed to be celibate so " coming out" should not benefit them any more than letting them express themselves about their feelings toward women. Both are contrary to their vows. Both are wrong.

Taking a vow does not do away with the sexual instinct of any man, priest or not. As a matter of fact being without sex for life would be harmful to the mental and physical health of any normal human being.

I hear the merry go round cranking up

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Thank you doctor.

The Catholic Church has written the new Catechism to better inform the faithful of the Faith especially after the Vatican II changes. If you are not a Catholic of what interest is this to you?

The discipline of Celibacy is made by The Church and it could change, but the Doctrine of an All-male priesthood was instituted by Christ and can not change.

Re this discussion on homosexuals, the Church has never hated anyone, just teaches against the sin. As would any religion do with regard to any sinner, of which we all are.

Excuse me but a priest who likes boys is gay. In other words, if a priest comes out as being gay it doesn't preclude him being a pedophile.

The heading of this thread is amazinly suggestive: The Pope on Gay Priests: Am I the only who gets that? :D

HAhahahahahahaha:a20:

Here what was actually said...

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis told reporters, speaking in Italian but using the English word “gay.”

Francis’s words could not have been more different from those of Benedict XVI, who in 2005 wrote that homosexuality was “a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder.”

It is a profoundly important shift that Pope Francis will not judge gays (just as Christ chose not to do). His predecessor reinforced what he saw as an inexorable connection between homosexuality and intrinsic moral evil (i.e. having forbidden sex, pedophilia, and other forms of sexual abuse). The 'connection' was his judgement of homosexuals, and his leadership led many church leaders and members to make those judgements also. Those who were known to be gay have been shunned, despised and denied participation in church sacraments and ceremonies.

What's important is that the official papal authorization to continue discrimination against gays based on a judgement of their assumed behavior has been removed.

This statement, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” does not refer to priests who made vows of celibacy but choose to have sexual relations. It refers to all human beings in general, regarding their faith.

It says in another way that only God knows a person's heart and and only He knows the honesty/integrity of the person's faith, and that the pope does not judge the validity/truthfulness of the person's faith.

The pope does have the right/authority to "judge" (identify and call to repentance) any person whose chosen behavior defies God by breaking His Commandments.

It would be grossly mistaken to conclude that the pope and Catholic doctrine will no longer deem homosexual behavior to be prohibited, condemnable and alienating from God.

Within the professing Catholic human population, there is a subset of people--priests--over whom the Pope does have authority to declare their homosexual behavior to be prohibited and condemnable. This thread was mis-titled I think, by focusing on priests.

As for the pope's statement saying "who am I to judge (a person's faith)", a priest can be homosexual in his being and mental/emotional attractions to others without being "judged" by the pope or God, but the behavior of acting upon those attractions and having sexual relations is prohibited and will continue to be "judged" (identified and called to repentance) by the Church.

As always, people tend to interpret religious doctrine to make it fit their personal and political wants, instead of conforming to what God wants and what the Church teaches in order to draw the person nearer to God and his perfection in eternity.

I'm not sure how any of your statements change the facts about this important shift in the church's position on gays.

In the first paragraph you could extend Francis' statement to include more than gay priests. If that were true it wouldn't change anything, but it would make the shift even more global.
Next paragraph is a bulls-eye, and a virtual restatement of my position.
Next paragraph misses the point. Francis says he will not judge people. It says nothing of judging behavior.
Next paragraph - answered above. In fact the Pope and other church leaders have the authority to judge the behavior of any Catholic.
Next paragraph - ok, you again distinguish between a group of people and human behavior. That's the idea.
Last paragraph - Not sure to whom you are referring and how it fits this issue.

The pope said that he did not feel it was his place to judge persons who have a homosexual (gay) orientation, particularly when they are persons of good will who are seeking a relationship with God.
He did not give homosexual priests permission to break their vows of celibacy, or to become sexually active, or to engage in sexual acts with minors.
We are all sinners, by the way. And it is not our job to be pointing fingers at others and claiming their sin is way worse than our own. Just leave the judging to God. That's God's job.

Good morning zonerboy. You speak kindly and with wisdom.

Your post is a breath of fresh air. :mademyday: